California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

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rwsandiego
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Re: California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

Post by rwsandiego » January 24th, 2018, 6:39 pm

mbz321 wrote:
January 24th, 2018, 9:13 am
rwsandiego wrote:
January 23rd, 2018, 10:25 pm

I've seen compostable and biodegradable plastic forks, knives, single-serve containers, and even trash bags so there really is no reason grocery bags can't be made of a similar material. If today we had the same level of and commitment to research that brought us petroleum-based plastics in the early 20th century we could have plant-based plastics on a wide scale. Instead, we want to develop apps to solve problems we didn't know we have.

The problem is, despite their claims of being compostable and biodegradable, that only really happens under certain conditions, and in very few instances, will these bags and cups and containers actually degrade. A lot of time, sun/UV light is required over time for these items to break down, and that isn't happening when they are thrown in a landfill.
The composting process typically occurs in an absence of light (much like a landfill). Perhaps current landfill design does not lend to degradation, but changing the design of landfills and the introduction of a catalyst that starts the degradation process could solve that problem. Part of the problem is we try to seek one silver bullet instead of looking at the problem holistically.

klkla
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Re: California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

Post by klkla » January 24th, 2018, 7:55 pm

Also keep in mind that the trash that goes into our landfills is the least of our worries at this time. The problem is greater with plastic products that don't go into landfills.

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Re: California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

Post by CalItalian » January 24th, 2018, 8:41 pm

This law has nothing to do with reducing waste. It wasn't crafted for that and gullible Californians fell for it. It has to do with retailers making money off bags they were giving out for free.

I like the law in Manhattan Beach the best (although I believe there should be no law at all) where all stores are required to give a free paper bag. CVS gives the tiniest paper bag they have but Ralphs gives out regular full size paper bags and has them readily available for all to use (such as at self checkout). Bristol Farms gives a smaller but decent sized bag with a cut out for a handle. I it too.

storewanderer
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Re: California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

Post by storewanderer » January 24th, 2018, 8:55 pm

Two cities near me in California wrote into their law that the bag charge was "optional" - Grass Valley and South Lake Tahoe.

In Grass Valley it is pretty straightforward; most of the stores there give bags for free but it is either the paper bags or thick plastic ones: Safeway, Save Mart, Raleys, Rite Aid, Walgreens, CVS. One store there who is charging 10 cents for the super thick plastic bag there is Kmart.

In South Lake Tahoe, it seems to be a little more odd. Safeway charges 10 cents for bags there. Raleys does not charge if you go to a staffed cashier, but if you go to a self checkout, it asks how many bags used and charges you 5 cents for each bag. Rite Aid and CVS do not charge anything for bags there.

Another nearby town, Lincoln, wrote that any bag ban was "up to the retailer." There seems to be some question if their ordinance means anything or not. Last time I was in Lincoln, Raleys was not charging for bags and freely giving bags just like before the ban. However, in that town, Safeway, CVS, and Wal Mart were all charging the customary 10 cents for bags. Not sure about Target.

I am also not really convinced the stores are making much money from selling bags. My previous estimations showed the stores selling a good lot of reusable bags at the 0.99-4.99 price points and I do not see that happening. Maybe the 10 cents of revenue they make (when they actually charge the 10 cents................) has a few cents of profit but it also is taking them extra time to charge the bag fee, these bags take longer to handle than the old bags did and I suspect the few pennies they make on selling the bag is being washed away by the dimes they are losing on the efficiency loss from this whole thing.

rwsandiego
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Re: California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

Post by rwsandiego » January 24th, 2018, 9:53 pm

klkla wrote:
January 24th, 2018, 7:55 pm
Also keep in mind that the trash that goes into our landfills is the least of our worries at this time. The problem is greater with plastic products that don't go into landfills.
Right. A biodegradable bag that gets tossed on the street will eventually degrade.

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Re: California Plastic Bag Ban Statistics Figures Misleading

Post by storewanderer » January 24th, 2018, 10:27 pm

I don't see any less litter around California when I drive through it since the plastic bag ban. Most litter before, and now, continues as stray bottles, cups, wrappers, and other stray paper objects.

It is unfortunate, for one reason or another, that many items are not disposed properly. It is not always people littering, either. In my area in Nevada we were having issues with the garbage pick up contractor dumping the cans too fast so litter was falling out of the cans onto the street. Or, their trucks were too full and litter was falling out of their overflowing trucks as they drove around the neighborhood. And it took some people recording video images of this garbage pick up provider's trucks with trash blowing out the top for something to be done. The garbage pick up provider first tried to blame "overflowing or not properly closed trash cans where the litter fell out before we did a pick up."

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