Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

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Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by SamSpade »

It seems like Albertsons has something against can lights and those x shaped wood lights Safeway hung over lifestyle produce departments.

This store is near one of the largest and busiest Fred Meyer stores along with QFC and Whole Foods... but I think this store is so busy due to location (bus lines, MAX, shopping mall).

Terrible Chinese meal today too. :-(

There was no construction crew on site that I saw, so I think this ceiling is staying.

Photos on Yelp.
https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/safeway ... 2rwTE554Kg
https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/safeway ... Ro0FEnVJoA
Safeway
1100 NE Broadway St
Lloyd District
Portland, OR 97232


http://www.yelp.com/biz/safeway-portland-17
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

SamSpade wrote:It seems like Albertsons has something against can lights and those x shaped wood lights Safeway hung over lifestyle produce departments.

This store is near one of the largest and busiest Fred Meyer stores along with QFC and Whole Foods... but I think this store is so busy due to location (bus lines, MAX, shopping mall).

Terrible Chinese meal today too. :-(

There was no construction crew on site that I saw, so I think this ceiling is staying.

Photos on Yelp.
https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/safeway ... 2rwTE554Kg
https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/safeway ... Ro0FEnVJoA
Safeway
1100 NE Broadway St
Lloyd District
Portland, OR 97232
Although this lighting does still look somewhat cheap, the fixtures seem to at least look a lot better than the fixtures used for the drop-ceiling Texas stores. The shades on the sides of the fixtures help to focus the light downward, reducing glare in the process (or at least it appears so in these photos). Similar fixtures to these have been used in the DC region for their perimeter lighting replacements.

Side note: I wonder what Albertsons is doing with the old fixtures being removed? I would love to get my hands on one of the x-shaped produce fixtures if available somehow.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by Super S »

At least in those stores it looks like the can lights have been removed, unlike some of the others where they placed them below fixtures that were still powered up. Now if they at least can install new tiles and get rid of those holes it may not look too bad.

But keep in mind, in some of the Haggen conversions, they installed new recessed lighting right next to existing strip lighting, which made about as much sense, and the end result looked about as tacky.

I have to wonder if customers, particularly at Safeway, were making large scale complaints about lighting. This at least addresses those concerns and kinda shows that new management may finally be listening. But I have to wonder if the ultimate goal is to "cheapen up" the stores a bit to give more of an image of lower prices. It will only go so far if they don't address the real problem of not having low prices though...
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by rwsandiego »

Super S wrote:... But I have to wonder if the ultimate goal is to "cheapen up" the stores a bit to give more of an image of lower prices. It will only go so far if they don't address the real problem of not having low prices though...
As someone else mentioned in another thread, most customers are not looking up at the light fixtures. They are looking at the product they are trying to buy. Darkly lit stores are hard to shop and look dingy. Bright stores look cleaner and fresher and the product looks better. My guess is when Albertsons determines what it is going to do about the 10+ year old Safeway decor they will replace light fixtures with something a little nicer.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by pseudo3d »

rwsandiego wrote:
Super S wrote:... But I have to wonder if the ultimate goal is to "cheapen up" the stores a bit to give more of an image of lower prices. It will only go so far if they don't address the real problem of not having low prices though...
As someone else mentioned in another thread, most customers are not looking up at the light fixtures. They are looking at the product they are trying to buy. Darkly lit stores are hard to shop and look dingy. Bright stores look cleaner and fresher and the product looks better. My guess is when Albertsons determines what it is going to do about the 10+ year old Safeway decor they will replace light fixtures with something a little nicer.
If the idea was to "brighten up", then renovate, then they should do the major work on lighting first without tacky mistakes (personally, I think they should find out who botched the lighting in some stores and have them sacked) and do the bigger remodels later (Colorful Lifestyle, LLC, etc.)
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by storewanderer »

I don't really understand why they can't just install higher brightness lights in the existing fixtures.

A year or two ago the Safeway in Sparks, NV made a lighting adjustment of some kind and the result was noticeably brighter lighting with its existing fixtures, particularly around the produce and meat areas. Somewhere along the way the store reverted back to the standard darker Lifestyle lighting.

What I found interesting was the brighter lighting does not really go well with the lifestyle wall colors or lifestyle floor color. That lifestyle design, was very well thought out so the various elements (flooring, wall colors, lighting) worked together. These makeshift changes and hack cheap light jobs are probably not going to look very professional or help the stores have an upscale image.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

storewanderer wrote:I don't really understand why they can't just install higher brightness lights in the existing fixtures.

A year or two ago the Safeway in Sparks, NV made a lighting adjustment of some kind and the result was noticeably brighter lighting with its existing fixtures, particularly around the produce and meat areas. Somewhere along the way the store reverted back to the standard darker Lifestyle lighting.

What I found interesting was the brighter lighting does not really go well with the lifestyle wall colors or lifestyle floor color. That lifestyle design, was very well thought out so the various elements (flooring, wall colors, lighting) worked together. These makeshift changes and hack cheap light jobs are probably not going to look very professional or help the stores have an upscale image.
Actually, the old Lifestyle lighting may have just been on a series of dimmers, as I have noticed a few DFW Tom Thumbs where the old incandescent/halogen lights occasionally look brighter than normal. In large stores like these with complex lighting schemes, the lighting is often controlled by a central control board which allows for multiple preset schemes. For example, in these Lifestyle stores, the perimeter/accent might be dimmed while the store is in operation, while it is turned up higher for stocking or maintenance. Honestly, I see no reason that most of these old fixtures couldn't have been easily reused, with bright LED bulbs being retrofitted to allow for both a brighter bulb and increased cost savings.

I have noticed the same color tone issue which you mention on the new fluorescent lighting used in many of the DFW stores. The bulbs used in the new fixtures have a noticeably cooler color temperature than the existing Safeway center-store fixtures, and honestly look awful when mixed with the yellow/tan paint and floor finishes used in the Lifestyle decor. They also make produce look unappealing in some cases (an employee at the Preston/Belt Line store in Dallas actually told me that they have received many complaints about this).
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by pseudo3d »

architect wrote:
storewanderer wrote:I don't really understand why they can't just install higher brightness lights in the existing fixtures.

A year or two ago the Safeway in Sparks, NV made a lighting adjustment of some kind and the result was noticeably brighter lighting with its existing fixtures, particularly around the produce and meat areas. Somewhere along the way the store reverted back to the standard darker Lifestyle lighting.

What I found interesting was the brighter lighting does not really go well with the lifestyle wall colors or lifestyle floor color. That lifestyle design, was very well thought out so the various elements (flooring, wall colors, lighting) worked together. These makeshift changes and hack cheap light jobs are probably not going to look very professional or help the stores have an upscale image.
Actually, the old Lifestyle lighting may have just been on a series of dimmers, as I have noticed a few DFW Tom Thumbs where the old incandescent/halogen lights occasionally look brighter than normal. In large stores like these with complex lighting schemes, the lighting is often controlled by a central control board which allows for multiple preset schemes. For example, in these Lifestyle stores, the perimeter/accent might be dimmed while the store is in operation, while it is turned up higher for stocking or maintenance. Honestly, I see no reason that most of these old fixtures couldn't have been easily reused, with bright LED bulbs being retrofitted to allow for both a brighter bulb and increased cost savings.

I have noticed the same color tone issue which you mention on the new fluorescent lighting used in many of the DFW stores. The bulbs used in the new fixtures have a noticeably cooler color temperature than the existing Safeway center-store fixtures, and honestly look awful when mixed with the yellow/tan paint and floor finishes used in the Lifestyle decor. They also make produce look unappealing in some cases (an employee at the Preston/Belt Line store in Dallas actually told me that they have received many complaints about this).
I will say that dimmer switches aren't always compatible with everything, I do remember reading that LEDs/CFLs are not compatible with incandescent dimmer switches...which is probably why they had to switch fixtures altogether.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by Super S »

pseudo3d wrote:
architect wrote:
storewanderer wrote:I don't really understand why they can't just install higher brightness lights in the existing fixtures.

A year or two ago the Safeway in Sparks, NV made a lighting adjustment of some kind and the result was noticeably brighter lighting with its existing fixtures, particularly around the produce and meat areas. Somewhere along the way the store reverted back to the standard darker Lifestyle lighting.

What I found interesting was the brighter lighting does not really go well with the lifestyle wall colors or lifestyle floor color. That lifestyle design, was very well thought out so the various elements (flooring, wall colors, lighting) worked together. These makeshift changes and hack cheap light jobs are probably not going to look very professional or help the stores have an upscale image.
Actually, the old Lifestyle lighting may have just been on a series of dimmers, as I have noticed a few DFW Tom Thumbs where the old incandescent/halogen lights occasionally look brighter than normal. In large stores like these with complex lighting schemes, the lighting is often controlled by a central control board which allows for multiple preset schemes. For example, in these Lifestyle stores, the perimeter/accent might be dimmed while the store is in operation, while it is turned up higher for stocking or maintenance. Honestly, I see no reason that most of these old fixtures couldn't have been easily reused, with bright LED bulbs being retrofitted to allow for both a brighter bulb and increased cost savings.

I have noticed the same color tone issue which you mention on the new fluorescent lighting used in many of the DFW stores. The bulbs used in the new fixtures have a noticeably cooler color temperature than the existing Safeway center-store fixtures, and honestly look awful when mixed with the yellow/tan paint and floor finishes used in the Lifestyle decor. They also make produce look unappealing in some cases (an employee at the Preston/Belt Line store in Dallas actually told me that they have received many complaints about this).
I will say that dimmer switches aren't always compatible with everything, I do remember reading that LEDs/CFLs are not compatible with incandescent dimmer switches...which is probably why they had to switch fixtures altogether.
Most fluorescent lights are also not compatible with dimmers. I wonder if each fixture had three bulbs across and had the center bulbs turned off (I have seen older Safeway stores with exposed strip lights like I mentioned do this). But I also wonder if they went away from the "soft white" color and put in the "daylight" or just the standard "cool white" color on the bulbs. Some stores can gain a brighter appearance by simply doing that.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

Super S wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:
architect wrote:
Actually, the old Lifestyle lighting may have just been on a series of dimmers, as I have noticed a few DFW Tom Thumbs where the old incandescent/halogen lights occasionally look brighter than normal. In large stores like these with complex lighting schemes, the lighting is often controlled by a central control board which allows for multiple preset schemes. For example, in these Lifestyle stores, the perimeter/accent might be dimmed while the store is in operation, while it is turned up higher for stocking or maintenance. Honestly, I see no reason that most of these old fixtures couldn't have been easily reused, with bright LED bulbs being retrofitted to allow for both a brighter bulb and increased cost savings.

I have noticed the same color tone issue which you mention on the new fluorescent lighting used in many of the DFW stores. The bulbs used in the new fixtures have a noticeably cooler color temperature than the existing Safeway center-store fixtures, and honestly look awful when mixed with the yellow/tan paint and floor finishes used in the Lifestyle decor. They also make produce look unappealing in some cases (an employee at the Preston/Belt Line store in Dallas actually told me that they have received many complaints about this).
I will say that dimmer switches aren't always compatible with everything, I do remember reading that LEDs/CFLs are not compatible with incandescent dimmer switches...which is probably why they had to switch fixtures altogether.
Most fluorescent lights are also not compatible with dimmers. I wonder if each fixture had three bulbs across and had the center bulbs turned off (I have seen older Safeway stores with exposed strip lights like I mentioned do this). But I also wonder if they went away from the "soft white" color and put in the "daylight" or just the standard "cool white" color on the bulbs. Some stores can gain a brighter appearance by simply doing that.
Although LEDs/fluorescents are not compatible with traditional incandescent dimmers, dimmers for these fixtures are readily available on the market now and are not cost prohibitive. It itself, this should not be an entire reason for a lighting change. In addition, many commercial-grade dimming systems can be upgraded to support these never lamp types by simply changing out a module rather than replacing the entire dimmer.

As far as color temperature goes, fluorescent tubes around 4100k are the typical cheap bargain bin bulbs available, with 3000-3300k (soft white) tubes often costing more. As a result, Albertsons may have just decided to go with the cheapest bulbs possible vs matching the existing fixtures (the combination of which looks incredibly tacky). Actually, at the Jupiter/14th Tom Thumb in Plano, both bulb types were intermixed in strip fixtures which were recently installed, making the "revamped" lighting look even tackier than normal. My guess is that the lighting crew found a stash of old bulbs in storage and decided to put them to use. I'll get a photo sometime, it looks ridiculous.
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