Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by Super S »

architect wrote:
Super S wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:
I will say that dimmer switches aren't always compatible with everything, I do remember reading that LEDs/CFLs are not compatible with incandescent dimmer switches...which is probably why they had to switch fixtures altogether.
Most fluorescent lights are also not compatible with dimmers. I wonder if each fixture had three bulbs across and had the center bulbs turned off (I have seen older Safeway stores with exposed strip lights like I mentioned do this). But I also wonder if they went away from the "soft white" color and put in the "daylight" or just the standard "cool white" color on the bulbs. Some stores can gain a brighter appearance by simply doing that.
Although LEDs/fluorescents are not compatible with traditional incandescent dimmers, dimmers for these fixtures are readily available on the market now and are not cost prohibitive. It itself, this should not be an entire reason for a lighting change. In addition, many commercial-grade dimming systems can be upgraded to support these never lamp types by simply changing out a module rather than replacing the entire dimmer.

As far as color temperature goes, fluorescent tubes around 4100k are the typical cheap bargain bin bulbs available, with 3000-3300k (soft white) tubes often costing more. As a result, Albertsons may have just decided to go with the cheapest bulbs possible vs matching the existing fixtures (the combination of which looks incredibly tacky). Actually, at the Jupiter/14th Tom Thumb in Plano, both bulb types were intermixed in strip fixtures which were recently installed, making the "revamped" lighting look even tackier than normal. My guess is that the lighting crew found a stash of old bulbs in storage and decided to put them to use. I'll get a photo sometime, it looks ridiculous.
On occasion, I have seen instances in other stores where they will even mix the T8 and older, wider T12 bulbs in the same fixture, with no regard to the color temperature. I always wonder if that was a leftover case from when the lights had the older T12 ballasts.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by klkla »

I saw these examples on yelp of a Mariano's store that received minimal remodeling before opening. They seemed to have done a much better job at brightening the Lifetyle format

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/marianos ... lNkXCJo25g

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/marianos ... _wOjC6U3WA
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by storewanderer »

Ditching the candy racks and soda coolers at checkout sure opened that area up more... I notice a number of low volume retailers keep candy racks at checkout but don't put candy on all of them due to spoilage issues. Maybe it would look better to just remove the racks entirely. This could be an interesting strategy for smaller stores that are already space challenged, could allow them to extend the aisles a few more feet...
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

klkla wrote:I saw these examples on yelp of a Mariano's store that received minimal remodeling before opening. They seemed to have done a much better job at brightening the Lifetyle format

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/marianos ... lNkXCJo25g

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/marianos ... _wOjC6U3WA
This is exactly what Albertsons should have done with the Lifestyle stores nationwide. The 2x4 lay-in fluorescents used in this Mariano's are available for a dime a dozen, and look so much classier than the utilitarian "strip" fixtures being used across many regions.

Side note, I would live to visit a Mariano's sometime! It really seems like that they have figured out how to design stores well, even in less than ideal circumstances (such as many of these acquired Dominick's). I am really curious how they compare to the Market Street stores in DFW, which definitely aim towards the "high end, but yet still mainstream grocery" crowd.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by storewanderer »

Mariano's is far superior to Market Street.

At least, let me say, about three years ago, Mariano's was far superior to Market Street. Mariano's offered lower prices, much better tasting stuff on the perimeter, much better freshness on perimeter, and overall just had a more upscale feel and vibe. Market Street comes off as a Wegmans copycat that simply is not executed nearly as well as Wegmans is (who can execute that well). Mariano's comes off a bit more refined, a bit more upscale, a bit more unique... it does not feel like a copycat of anything.

Most of the positive comments I make about Mariano's are about the fresh departments only. The general dry grocery areas of Mariano's are nothing too fun.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

storewanderer wrote:Mariano's is far superior to Market Street.

At least, let me say, about three years ago, Mariano's was far superior to Market Street. Mariano's offered lower prices, much better tasting stuff on the perimeter, much better freshness on perimeter, and overall just had a more upscale feel and vibe. Market Street comes off as a Wegmans copycat that simply is not executed nearly as well as Wegmans is (who can execute that well). Mariano's comes off a bit more refined, a bit more upscale, a bit more unique... it does not feel like a copycat of anything.

Most of the positive comments I make about Mariano's are about the fresh departments only. The general dry grocery areas of Mariano's are nothing too fun.
In that case, it sounds like Mariano's would be a rough equivalent to a Central Market, but with a more mainstream center-store selection. Central Market is primarily known for their perimeter items, while also having great pricing on the center-store items which they carry due to being in the HEB umbrella. Their store-brand items are all of excellent quality, both with the Central Market and traditional HEB branding.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by storewanderer »

The atmosphere and vibe of Mariano's and Central Market are completely different.

Central Market definitely has lower pricing (but less mix) in center store than Mariano's has. On center store, Market Street is probably better than the other two since Market Street center store is a typical wide conventional center store mix with a good amount of drug, etc. Central Market had a rather abbreviated center store mix and Mariano's center store mix just didn't feel overly well put together.

I felt the perimeter departments at Mariano's were much higher quality than what Central Market was offering (most of which was pretty good but Mariano's offerings are/were simply superior). Again, this is how I perceived it a few years ago and things may have changed now. Mariano's deli operation, prepared foods operation, and bakery operation were simply on par if not slightly better quality wise, but not as large of a selection, compared to the best operator I've visited (Wegman's).

One thing about Mariano's is that it is still a general old supermarket. You can run in, get something, and get out in 10 minutes. I cannot say that for Wegman's. Going to Wegman's just takes a while. Market Street didn't seem that way though, despite being a total copycat of Wegmans layout and design. Central Market struck me as more unique.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

storewanderer wrote:The atmosphere and vibe of Mariano's and Central Market are completely different.

Central Market definitely has lower pricing (but less mix) in center store than Mariano's has. On center store, Market Street is probably better than the other two since Market Street center store is a typical wide conventional center store mix with a good amount of drug, etc. Central Market had a rather abbreviated center store mix and Mariano's center store mix just didn't feel overly well put together.

I felt the perimeter departments at Mariano's were much higher quality than what Central Market was offering (most of which was pretty good but Mariano's offerings are/were simply superior). Again, this is how I perceived it a few years ago and things may have changed now. Mariano's deli operation, prepared foods operation, and bakery operation were simply on par if not slightly better quality wise, but not as large of a selection, compared to the best operator I've visited (Wegman's).

One thing about Mariano's is that it is still a general old supermarket. You can run in, get something, and get out in 10 minutes. I cannot say that for Wegman's. Going to Wegman's just takes a while. Market Street didn't seem that way though, despite being a total copycat of Wegmans layout and design. Central Market struck me as more unique.
Although Market Street attempted to duplicate Wegmans typical store format, their stores are more conducive for "in and out" runs since their stores see much lower traffic on average. Although Market Street is arguably the best Albertsons-owned concept right now, the stores still fail to touch Wegmans' or Central Market's "destination" status simply due to their generic private label selection. On the other hand, most Central Market locations are treated as "destination" stores in a similar manner to Wegmans, and are typically filled with shoppers even at off-peak times (the Lovers/Greenville location in Dallas and the Westheimer location in Houston are prime examples, with an expansion planned for the Houston store to accommodate this heavy traffic). On the whole, CM's perimeters are extremely high quality, although the selection is very different from what you would expect in Chicago or New York simply due to regional taste differences. In particular, their bakery quality is arguably the best of any grocer in Texas, while their produce selection is also very extensive.
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by pseudo3d »

architect wrote:
storewanderer wrote:The atmosphere and vibe of Mariano's and Central Market are completely different.

Central Market definitely has lower pricing (but less mix) in center store than Mariano's has. On center store, Market Street is probably better than the other two since Market Street center store is a typical wide conventional center store mix with a good amount of drug, etc. Central Market had a rather abbreviated center store mix and Mariano's center store mix just didn't feel overly well put together.

I felt the perimeter departments at Mariano's were much higher quality than what Central Market was offering (most of which was pretty good but Mariano's offerings are/were simply superior). Again, this is how I perceived it a few years ago and things may have changed now. Mariano's deli operation, prepared foods operation, and bakery operation were simply on par if not slightly better quality wise, but not as large of a selection, compared to the best operator I've visited (Wegman's).

One thing about Mariano's is that it is still a general old supermarket. You can run in, get something, and get out in 10 minutes. I cannot say that for Wegman's. Going to Wegman's just takes a while. Market Street didn't seem that way though, despite being a total copycat of Wegmans layout and design. Central Market struck me as more unique.
Although Market Street attempted to duplicate Wegmans typical store format, their stores are more conducive for "in and out" runs since their stores see much lower traffic on average. Although Market Street is arguably the best Albertsons-owned concept right now, the stores still fail to touch Wegmans' or Central Market's "destination" status simply due to their generic private label selection. On the other hand, most Central Market locations are treated as "destination" stores in a similar manner to Wegmans, and are typically filled with shoppers even at off-peak times (the Lovers/Greenville location in Dallas and the Westheimer location in Houston are prime examples, with an expansion planned for the Houston store to accommodate this heavy traffic). On the whole, CM's perimeters are extremely high quality, although the selection is very different from what you would expect in Chicago or New York simply due to regional taste differences. In particular, their bakery quality is arguably the best of any grocer in Texas, while their produce selection is also very extensive.
Market Street can't really match up to Wegmans anyway I would say because they are much smaller stores than Wegmans. Granted, they are decent sized (~70k square feet) but that hardly comes close to Wegmans 75k-140k square foot formats. Build a 100k square feet (or larger) Market Street, and we'll start talking.

Central Market I would say is destination but completely counter-intuitive to "in and out" not just because of the massive crowds but because of the extremely linear nature of the store where you're forced into every department. I should scan my directory of it sometime and show you guys if you don't know what I'm talking about...it isn't like a normal grocery store.

Secondly, I would also argue against Central Market's perimeters being that great...some of the bakery items were the exact same stuff that I saw at H-E-B (oh, there's fancier items, too, don't get me wrong) and that exact same stuff isn't worth writing home about. (I can't speak for the meat and seafood, though)
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Re: Safeway lighting disaster comes to the northwest

Post by architect »

pseudo3d wrote:
architect wrote:
storewanderer wrote:The atmosphere and vibe of Mariano's and Central Market are completely different.

Central Market definitely has lower pricing (but less mix) in center store than Mariano's has. On center store, Market Street is probably better than the other two since Market Street center store is a typical wide conventional center store mix with a good amount of drug, etc. Central Market had a rather abbreviated center store mix and Mariano's center store mix just didn't feel overly well put together.

I felt the perimeter departments at Mariano's were much higher quality than what Central Market was offering (most of which was pretty good but Mariano's offerings are/were simply superior). Again, this is how I perceived it a few years ago and things may have changed now. Mariano's deli operation, prepared foods operation, and bakery operation were simply on par if not slightly better quality wise, but not as large of a selection, compared to the best operator I've visited (Wegman's).

One thing about Mariano's is that it is still a general old supermarket. You can run in, get something, and get out in 10 minutes. I cannot say that for Wegman's. Going to Wegman's just takes a while. Market Street didn't seem that way though, despite being a total copycat of Wegmans layout and design. Central Market struck me as more unique.
Although Market Street attempted to duplicate Wegmans typical store format, their stores are more conducive for "in and out" runs since their stores see much lower traffic on average. Although Market Street is arguably the best Albertsons-owned concept right now, the stores still fail to touch Wegmans' or Central Market's "destination" status simply due to their generic private label selection. On the other hand, most Central Market locations are treated as "destination" stores in a similar manner to Wegmans, and are typically filled with shoppers even at off-peak times (the Lovers/Greenville location in Dallas and the Westheimer location in Houston are prime examples, with an expansion planned for the Houston store to accommodate this heavy traffic). On the whole, CM's perimeters are extremely high quality, although the selection is very different from what you would expect in Chicago or New York simply due to regional taste differences. In particular, their bakery quality is arguably the best of any grocer in Texas, while their produce selection is also very extensive.
Market Street can't really match up to Wegmans anyway I would say because they are much smaller stores than Wegmans. Granted, they are decent sized (~70k square feet) but that hardly comes close to Wegmans 75k-140k square foot formats. Build a 100k square feet (or larger) Market Street, and we'll start talking.

Central Market I would say is destination but completely counter-intuitive to "in and out" not just because of the massive crowds but because of the extremely linear nature of the store where you're forced into every department. I should scan my directory of it sometime and show you guys if you don't know what I'm talking about...it isn't like a normal grocery store.

Secondly, I would also argue against Central Market's perimeters being that great...some of the bakery items were the exact same stuff that I saw at H-E-B (oh, there's fancier items, too, don't get me wrong) and that exact same stuff isn't worth writing home about. (I can't speak for the meat and seafood, though)
I definitely agree with you on Central Market's stores having an excessively linear nature. To put them into perspective, their stores are designed like your typical IKEA, with a maze which weaves through every department along with "shortcuts" for those who know their way around. These shortcuts are typically placed where most shoppers will pass right by them unless you have discovered them. Even their Preston/Royal store in Dallas (a converted Marina Safeway, complete with restored wood beams) has this design, despite the store's small size. HEB has also maintained this practice at some of their larger mainstream locations too (The Woodlands Market in the Houston area and Brodie/William Cannon location in Austin both come to mind), and it is one of the only things I tend to dislike about HEB.

Also, I am curious if the Central market bakery offerings are skewed differently in DFW since there are no traditional HEB stores in the area. Most of my Central Market experiences have been in DFW, but I have visited the Houston location on several occasions and both Austin locations one time each. On the whole, the DFW stores have an interesting mix, as the perimeter departments skew noticeably higher-end than the locations in other parts of the state, yet the center-store aisles are also filled with more HEB branded items to make up for the fact that there are currently no HEB stores to sell these products at otherwise. Also, the selection surprisingly varies from store to store (especially the Coit Road and Lovers Lane stores, despite having almost identical floor plans). It would not surprise me if these "typical HEB" bakery items you are describing are not carried at the DFW stores simply due to the fact that the distribution network for these items is not in place yet.
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