What's left of Haggen

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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by Super S »

Brian Lutz wrote: December 13th, 2018, 10:50 am If you look at the Google satellite view maps you can see the Edmonds store as a Top Foods which then becomes a WinCo on street view. I used to work near that Edmonds WinCo store for a while, and found it to be fairly nice compared to some of the other WinCo stores in the area, to the point that I thought it was a new build (since some of the other buildings in the parking lot are recent construction.)
Some of the TOP stores of the late 1980s-early 1990s had a lot of similarities to the Waremart-operated Cub Foods stores (most of which are now WinCo) built around the same time in Washington and Oregon. There is even a discussion on Groceteria about it:

http://groceteria.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3216

There was no definite answer, but on Groceteria the discussion hinted at Haggen possibly obtaining franchise rights to the Cub name, but tweaking the format (such as having a pharmacy) to suit the needs of Haggen, and deciding on their own TOP format instead.

I am curious to what extent WinCo changed the interior of the Edmonds store, or if the layout more closely follows the original TOP layout. Safeway actually kept the service departments including the pharmacy in the original locations when they took over Kelso.

How has the general layout of the converted TOP stores still operating as Haggen changed? Or has this been left alone? I have driven near the Olympia store several times but haven't stopped in to look.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by SamSpade »

Olympia was a late build TOP which means it was a Haggen in all but name. It does have a warehouse ceiling but is otherwise much like a traditional Haggen you'd find north of Everett.

I still remember when I went with a friend to the Auburn TOP (my only reference at the time were Shoreline or Bellevue). I was shocked at the difference.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by Brian Lutz »

The general layout of the Edmonds store seems to match the other two Snohomish County WinCo locations (Everett and Marysville), with the deli in the back of the store and the bakery at the front next to the registers. The Marysville WinCo is also similar but reversed from the others (the "Bargain aisle" entrance to the rest of the store is to the left of the front door instead of to the right) and the freezer section is also significantly different. Another difference in the Marysville store is that they have a pizza counter, which neither the Edmonds or Everett stores have. The Everett store was built in 1999 and didn't become a Winco until 2010 (here is a real estate listing from before WinCo bought the property which indicates that it was built as a HomeBase store) and the Marysville store was a new build that opened in 2007 (based on this article which indicates that the Marysville store was the first in Snohomish County).

The Bellevue TOP Foods store was also built as a standard Haggen store, and was reasonably nice. As noted earlier, it suffered greatly from poor placement (its location was not visible from the main street) and the changing demographics of the neighborhood. It also had a QFC inside Crossroads to compete with, which was probably a lot more convenient for most shoppers.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by marshd1000 »

Today I am in the Woodinville Haggen. Upon checkout the interface with the pin pad was different. It was the same machines that they have had, which is the same as Safeway/Albertsons. But the look and function was slightly different. I found out that they finally went onto the Safeway/Albertsons platform. I have both a Safeway and Haggen card. But I usually just enter my phone number in. So now Safeway cards and Vons, etc, work at Haggen and vice-versa. I was told I can link my accounts together by calling customer service, which I did. While the cards are linked, since Haggen is not yet using “Just For U”, shopping at Haggen will not earn gas rewards. I was told that will eventually come. But using a Safeway or Tom Thumb card, etc or Shaw’s phone number will get you discounts at Haggen. Using a Haggen card at Safeway etc, will get the discounts at those stores and earn gas rewards. So integration is slowly happening! The Woodinville store is busy as always. Someone once mentioned that the new decor is similar to the Safeway Florida decor. While it is not an exact clone, it is very similar! I do hope that Some opportunities can open up for this banner to expand. But it only seems possible in Northwest Washington or the Eastside of Seattle Metro!
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by rwsandiego »

marshd1000 wrote: May 4th, 2019, 2:45 pm Today I am in the Woodinville Haggen. Upon checkout the interface with the pin pad was different. It was the same machines that they have had, which is the same as Safeway/Albertsons. But the look and function was slightly different. I found out that they finally went onto the Safeway/Albertsons platform. I have both a Safeway and Haggen card. But I usually just enter my phone number in. So now Safeway cards and Vons, etc, work at Haggen and vice-versa. I was told I can link my accounts together by calling customer service, which I did. While the cards are linked, since Haggen is not yet using “Just For U”, shopping at Haggen will not earn gas rewards. I was told that will eventually come. But using a Safeway or Tom Thumb card, etc or Shaw’s phone number will get you discounts at Haggen. Using a Haggen card at Safeway etc, will get the discounts at those stores and earn gas rewards. So integration is slowly happening! The Woodinville store is busy as always. Someone once mentioned that the new decor is similar to the Safeway Florida decor. While it is not an exact clone, it is very similar! I do hope that Some opportunities can open up for this banner to expand. But it only seems possible in Northwest Washington or the Eastside of Seattle Metro!
The only way I see Haggen expanding is if it became the Pavilions equivalent in Washington and Oregon, which might not be entirely out of the question. I first became aware of them when I was in Seattle, Bellingham, Marysville, and Linden for work and they seemed to be a couple of steps above the nicer Safeway and Albertsons stores. While it has been too long for me to remember exact locations, I recall that some of the Safeways and Albertsons were large enough and located such that they could be candidates for conversion to a Haggen.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by marshd1000 »

Just wondering what is the pricing at Pavillions? Is it much higher than Vons? Since the botched Haggen expansion involved former Safeway and Albertsons, I am not sure that would work unless the price point on items they have in common were the same!! But I keep thinking about the Gig Harbor Safeway that had been converted to Haggen. Demographically Gig Harbor should have supported a Haggen. Also that particular made a very attractive Haggen but it flopped! But physically and demographically speaking, Gig Harbor, Admiral (West Seattle) and Bellevue would be great candidates to be a Haggen, if the previous Haggen expansion as an independent hadn’t happened!
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by storewanderer »

marshd1000 wrote: May 4th, 2019, 9:02 pm Just wondering what is the pricing at Pavillions? Is it much higher than Vons? Since the botched Haggen expansion involved former Safeway and Albertsons, I am not sure that would work unless the price point on items they have in common were the same!! But I keep thinking about the Gig Harbor Safeway that had been converted to Haggen. Demographically Gig Harbor should have supported a Haggen. Also that particular made a very attractive Haggen but it flopped! But physically and demographically speaking, Gig Harbor, Admiral (West Seattle) and Bellevue would be great candidates to be a Haggen, if the previous Haggen expansion as an independent hadn’t happened!
I think Haggen is very damaged from the botched Albertsons/Safeway purchases (and was already somewhat damaged from the various store closures and flopped Top Foods to Haggen conversions) and should not be expanded beyond its current store base at this point.

Maybe a real, true, top of the line Haggen would have some potential in some of those higher income areas in the Pacific Northwest. The real problem is Haggen has already been there and the stores are now closed, so they seem to have failed.

It is still odd to me how Haggen can do so well in some spots yet fared so poorly in others. That Olympia Store is the most interesting. Look how well that does. I really don't understand quite why things went how they went for the original group of Haggen Stores... the ones purchased from Albertsons/Safeway I absolutely understand why those failed. Those were not real Haggen Stores, they did not offer the product quality of a real Haggen Store, and did not offer the atmosphere of a real Haggen Store.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: May 4th, 2019, 10:23 pm
marshd1000 wrote: May 4th, 2019, 9:02 pm Just wondering what is the pricing at Pavillions? Is it much higher than Vons? Since the botched Haggen expansion involved former Safeway and Albertsons, I am not sure that would work unless the price point on items they have in common were the same!! But I keep thinking about the Gig Harbor Safeway that had been converted to Haggen. Demographically Gig Harbor should have supported a Haggen. Also that particular made a very attractive Haggen but it flopped! But physically and demographically speaking, Gig Harbor, Admiral (West Seattle) and Bellevue would be great candidates to be a Haggen, if the previous Haggen expansion as an independent hadn’t happened!
I think Haggen is very damaged from the botched Albertsons/Safeway purchases (and was already somewhat damaged from the various store closures and flopped Top Foods to Haggen conversions) and should not be expanded beyond its current store base at this point.

Maybe a real, true, top of the line Haggen would have some potential in some of those higher income areas in the Pacific Northwest. The real problem is Haggen has already been there and the stores are now closed, so they seem to have failed.

It is still odd to me how Haggen can do so well in some spots yet fared so poorly in others. That Olympia Store is the most interesting. Look how well that does. I really don't understand quite why things went how they went for the original group of Haggen Stores... the ones purchased from Albertsons/Safeway I absolutely understand why those failed. Those were not real Haggen Stores, they did not offer the product quality of a real Haggen Store, and did not offer the atmosphere of a real Haggen Store.
Haggen was struggling and closing stores already before the big fiasco. The big expansion had all the signs of failure from day one when a chain of 20-something stores goes to 160-something overnight, without gaining any distribution in far flung locations like California.

The Haggen name is damaged goods at this point. It only carries some significance in their home markets. The big expansion flopped for many reasons, and a lot of those stores still looked like an old Albertsons or Safeway with a new coat of paint on the walls. They left some things alone, like one conversion where the fluorescent tubes were near the end of their life and a few were randomly replaced with different color shades, very noticeable with exposed strips.

Haggen is not going to do well in any other area after all the bad publicity. As for the existing stores, they must be doing ok enough if they are still open, but I am curious how the whole Haggen fiasco has affected their overall sales.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by rwsandiego »

marshd1000 wrote: May 4th, 2019, 9:02 pm Just wondering what is the pricing at Pavillions? Is it much higher than Vons?
My experience with Pavilions vs VONS is the prices are similar on similar items. The difference is Pavilions carries more upscale items and the items are priced accordingly. For example, if both VONS and Pavilions sell Morton sea salt, the price would be the same. Pavilions would also sell a naturally-dried, imported sea salt and it would be priced higher.
marshd1000 wrote: May 4th, 2019, 9:02 pm...Since the botched Haggen expansion involved former Safeway and Albertsons, I am not sure that would work unless the price point on items they have in common were the same!! But I keep thinking about the Gig Harbor Safeway that had been converted to Haggen. Demographically Gig Harbor should have supported a Haggen. Also that particular made a very attractive Haggen but it flopped! But physically and demographically speaking, Gig Harbor, Admiral (West Seattle) and Bellevue would be great candidates to be a Haggen, if the previous Haggen expansion as an independent hadn’t happened!
As @storewanderer points out below, the stores that were converted to Haggen had the name plastered above the door, but were not really Haggens. I remember walking into the Del Mar Haggen thinking "this looks less appealing than the un-remodeled VONS up the freeway." It actually looked less upsclae than the Albertsons it replaced.
storewanderer wrote: May 4th, 2019, 10:23 pm
I think Haggen is very damaged from the botched Albertsons/Safeway purchases (and was already somewhat damaged from the various store closures and flopped Top Foods to Haggen conversions) and should not be expanded beyond its current store base at this point....
The Yelp reviews do not bear that out. The lowest review is three stars (the Olympia, WA store) and that's due to two one-star reviews that resulted from seemingly one-time incidents (a rude stocker and the meat saw being down one day)
storewanderer wrote: May 4th, 2019, 10:23 pm...Maybe a real, true, top of the line Haggen would have some potential in some of those higher income areas in the Pacific Northwest. The real problem is Haggen has already been there and the stores are now closed, so they seem to have failed.

It is still odd to me how Haggen can do so well in some spots yet fared so poorly in others. That Olympia Store is the most interesting. Look how well that does. I really don't understand quite why things went how they went for the original group of Haggen Stores ...
It seems that the failure of the pre-acquisition Haggen stores was the result of expansion beyond the company's means. The conversion of discount stores to upscale ones didn't help, either. Not sure why the company didn't foresee that one.
storewanderer wrote: May 4th, 2019, 10:23 pm...the ones purchased from Albertsons/Safeway I absolutely understand why those failed. Those were not real Haggen Stores, they did not offer the product quality of a real Haggen Store, and did not offer the atmosphere of a real Haggen Store.
Haggen did what Mariano's did when they bought up a bunch of closing Dominick's stores in Chicago. Jewel picked up a handful (I think five initially and a sixth a year after the merger), Whole Foods took a handful, Heinen took two, and Mariano's picked up eleven. After a quickie reset and thorough deep-cleaning , Jewel opened the stores and eventually remodeled all of them to bring them up to their standards. Whole Foods took months to convert the stores to their model and Heinen did the same. Mariano's closed the stores for a while and re-opened them looking virtually identical to the previous Dominick's without the prepared foods that made them a hit with shoppers.
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Re: What's left of Haggen

Post by marshd1000 »

The only store that was a converted Safeway and still a Haggen is Oak Harbor. That one had the conversion decor package when I was in there in 2017. I think they may have had a small dining area, not like the legacy Haggens. It did not seem tremendously busy. Maybe they are doing ok because they are more in the traditional Haggen turf and the only upscale grocer on Whidbey Island. Maybe things changed over the last two years?
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