Target to close 11 stores before year end

[pseudo3d]

Here's another article from today showing that Target is not quite on Target. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/17/targets- ... y-fix.html

-Again they point out that people aren't coming in for groceries (or much else either)

-A note about the Pharmacy switchover (which I think was a huge mistake...a lot of people used Target's pharmacy because they weren't a CVS. Now it is just a confusing mess and doesn't really add anything to Target's bottom line. Why would I schlep through Target to go to CVS when I can just go through the Drive-Thru CVS (or Walgreens or whoever) across the street?

-Some remarks about the 'boycott' over transgender bathrooms. A lot of the commenters are indicating it is still a 'huge' thing ,but I think just people gave up shopping at Target due to noncompetitive prices (especially in Apparel...some of their clothing is more expensive than I can get at JCPenney or a place that specializes in clothing. They don't seem to know if they are a discount store or a boutique anymore, and poor selection (part of the cause was adding P-Fresh to every store that for some reason Target thought they could rely on for sales).

(The only positive thing I can say about Target is now they have self-checkouts in more stores so I don't have to wait in the 2-3 regular lines that they seem to have open at any given time and can buy maybe the one or two items I actually found on my list in a hurry).

Whatever your opinion of Target or politics is, a mass retailer should not openly be getting itself into political issues because you don't want to risk upsetting substantial parts of your customer base to make a political statement, because there's no benefit to the contrary, you only lose customers. And their clothing is too expensive...they don't have decent sales like department stores do. I can get a decent shirt or pants from a department store that I like, I can't say that about Target.

The sale of their pharmacies was poorly handled. It's not like they did it in weak CVS markets (do those exist anymore?), they did it everywhere. It's even more confusing since the rest of the HBA department is still run by Target. If the pharmacy business was that bad, then they should have sold the records to others and just closed down the internal pharmacies. And to be honest, P-Fresh kinda sucks. It's not especially cheaper than other grocers (I've gotten the impression that it's more expensive than them...but I've never price-checked), the selection stinks (especially as they push their own brand through what is already a narrow selection), it causes the selection everywhere else in the store to stink, and it's sort of worthless because in most cases, Target stores are located near a real supermarket that is likely on the same trip/shopping center, where you can the stuff you actually want at a better price than Fresh-Pee over at Target.

[storewanderer]

I have found Target to have quite strong grocery pricing in a lot of regions (CA, CO, NV, AZ, UT), as in, as strong as Wal Mart, on packaged goods, historically. In the past year or two I notice their prices on some (not most) items creeping up to Safeway-like levels. Conversely I have gone into some Targets in other places and found the grocery pricing to be very high across the board (such as in OR and WA). The P-Fresh Perishables were always not priced well at all. The Super Target perishables tended to be priced better but not great.

I think the P-Fresh is not very good but they get what they pay for. Limited inventory, limited labor, limited effort. They did not want to build food preparation facilities in their stores during remodels; they do not promote perishable; they have no signature unique products; they went the cheap route and they get the cheap result. They could take P-Fresh out (keep dairy, keep frozen, just get rid of the produce/meat/defrosted bakery) and I don't think it would have an impact at all on their grocery sales.

I have found Target's grocery mix to be pretty good in the larger stores but definitely choppy in the locations with abbreviated grocery sets.

[veteran+]

I have found Target to have quite strong grocery pricing in a lot of regions (CA, CO, NV, AZ, UT), as in, as strong as Wal Mart, on packaged goods, historically. In the past year or two I notice their prices on some (not most) items creeping up to Safeway-like levels. Conversely I have gone into some Targets in other places and found the grocery pricing to be very high across the board (such as in OR and WA). The P-Fresh Perishables were always not priced well at all. The Super Target perishables tended to be priced better but not great.

I think the P-Fresh is not very good but they get what they pay for. Limited inventory, limited labor, limited effort. They did not want to build food preparation facilities in their stores during remodels; they do not promote perishable; they have no signature unique products; they went the cheap route and they get the cheap result. They could take P-Fresh out (keep dairy, keep frozen, just get rid of the produce/meat/defrosted bakery) and I don't think it would have an impact at all on their grocery sales.

I have found Target's grocery mix to be pretty good in the larger stores but definitely choppy in the locations with abbreviated grocery sets.

I concur.

The P-Fresh is, to me, like a large, cleaner, better priced version of an exceptional 7-11. And this is accomplished by diminishing variety in the rest of the store (valuable square footage).

The most recent Super Target I visited in Indio Ca. was pretty stellar and the prices were competitive but maybe the prices were great because it is right next to a large Winco.

Now the regular Target in Cathedral City has problems. No customer service desk (closed off and dark) and all those transactions have to be done at an express lane (a total disaster). P-Fresh, by all measures, is pretty much a joke. Customer service upfront and on the sales floor is NOT what I'm used to in a Target

[pseudo3d]

I have found Target to have quite strong grocery pricing in a lot of regions (CA, CO, NV, AZ, UT), as in, as strong as Wal Mart, on packaged goods, historically. In the past year or two I notice their prices on some (not most) items creeping up to Safeway-like levels. Conversely I have gone into some Targets in other places and found the grocery pricing to be very high across the board (such as in OR and WA). The P-Fresh Perishables were always not priced well at all. The Super Target perishables tended to be priced better but not great.

I think the P-Fresh is not very good but they get what they pay for. Limited inventory, limited labor, limited effort. They did not want to build food preparation facilities in their stores during remodels; they do not promote perishable; they have no signature unique products; they went the cheap route and they get the cheap result. They could take P-Fresh out (keep dairy, keep frozen, just get rid of the produce/meat/defrosted bakery) and I don't think it would have an impact at all on their grocery sales.

I have found Target's grocery mix to be pretty good in the larger stores but definitely choppy in the locations with abbreviated grocery sets.

I concur.

The P-Fresh is, to me, like a large, cleaner, better priced version of an exceptional 7-11. And this is accomplished by diminishing variety in the rest of the store (valuable square footage).

I know that they got rid of the garden centers/departments a few years ago (not many stores had them but the majority were in Florida) for P-Fresh. Like the Albertsons Lawn and Garden centers (for the stores that had them), the outdoor part isn't much use anymore. Also, unlike 7-Eleven, P-Fresh usually doesn't have hot food (not that 7-Eleven's hot food is great quality that won't give me bowel problems)

[Super S]

There are still a handful of Target stores out there that have NOT been remodeled into the P-Fresh format. The store in Kelso, WA is one. This store did very good business for a number of years. When it opened in 1990, there were no Walmarts in the area, and local (Longview-Kelso) competition was basically a Fred Meyer. There were no Kmarts close by, you had to drive either to Vancouver (now closed) or Chehalis (still open) (ironically Kmart was originally going to be built where this Target sits.) Since then, we have gained TWO Walmarts, Fred Meyer has done a thorough remodel, and the local economy has for the most part stagnated, and the nearby Three Rivers Mall has been having a hard time keeping stores open. Grocery competition includes three Safeway stores, one of which took over a TOP Foods across the road, as well as a WinCo and a Grocery Outlet. Longview-Kelso has seen its independent grocers disappear.

But back to Target. The Kelso store is one of those stores that look like it could go either way. It was last remodeled over ten years ago, at the time a pharmacy was added. The interior has not really changed since then. I can say that the store is not nearly as busy as it used to be. But one thing that puzzles me is how they removed the cafe and replaced it with a Starbucks (when there are Starbucks stores nearby) which does not strike me as a very smart move in an economically challenged town. It did get updated to the CVS Pharmacy recently, and the outside did receive a repaint in the last year. But certain other aspects give off a mixed bag, such as the lighting (possibly the only store in Washington or Oregon where this has not been updated) and certain areas where floor tiles are looking worn, and the jewelry cases where they have the cases all covered up (present in several stores around here). Target seems a bit out of touch with this particular store, not only the local clientele, but also with the way Target does things. It just seems like they haven't put as much effort into this one in recent years. But, quite frankly, the smaller size of this store makes adding the P-Fresh format a risky move unless they added on to the store.

[Brian Lutz]

In areas where they operate, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Fred Meyer has really stepped up their game. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s the Fred Meyer stores were generally pretty low-end around here, barely a step up from the Walmarts at the time, where the Target stores were the "nice" ones (this was back when both Walmart and Target stores had minimal grocery departments.) These days most of the Target stores here are still pretty nice, but the Fred Meyer stores are generally just as nice (if not nicer) with better prices than Target and full-fledged grocery stores to boot. Target still seems to have better electronics departments, but that's about the only area I'd give them the advantage in.

That said, the Target stores here still seem to be doing reasonably OK, but given the choice I'd shop at Fred Meyer 9 times out of 10.

[storewanderer]

The problem I have with Target is so often I just can't get what I need there. I would like to shop there. I find the store to be clean and orderly. I am indifferent regarding their employees. I have had mixed experiences and feel in the past decade Target's employee attitude has declined and Wal Mart's employee attitude has stayed the same. Though, for me, Wal Mart is closer, and the close Wal Mart is a stellar operation (for a Wal Mart). The floor is spotlessly clean and the store is neat. I find their grocery area to be a little of a waste of time, but their expanded center store mix is not bad; pricing is above Smiths and WinCo on too many items so for me it is never more than a 1-2 grocery item pick up there. The garden center was well maintained all summer and open until 9 or 10 PM. Never any wait to check out at garden, either. The floor employees have no sense of urgency but are quite good spirited people and comply with the company dress code better than any Wal Mart I've ever seen. I routinely encounter an assistant manager in the evenings who is very good at what he is doing and very helpful.

Carson City, NV has a Target that opened in 1995 and has received ZERO capital. It even has the original shopping carts and hand baskets. It closed its customer service and moved it to register 1 for a while but reversed that move fairly quickly. This is a store that has never done well, but I think business has picked up a little the past few years. There is no grocery store (other than a Wal Mart Supercenter, Trader Joe's, and Costco) for about 10 minutes in one direction and 20 minutes in the other direction but fairly steady housing all the way... yet this store never received a P-Fresh. Staples and Ross both closed next to the Carson Target but Home Depot remains open.

[pseudo3d]

The problem I have with Target is so often I just can't get what I need there. I would like to shop there. I find the store to be clean and orderly. I am indifferent regarding their employees. I have had mixed experiences and feel in the past decade Target's employee attitude has declined and Wal Mart's employee attitude has stayed the same. Though, for me, Wal Mart is closer, and the close Wal Mart is a stellar operation (for a Wal Mart). The floor is spotlessly clean and the store is neat. I find their grocery area to be a little of a waste of time, but their expanded center store mix is not bad; pricing is above Smiths and WinCo on too many items so for me it is never more than a 1-2 grocery item pick up there. The garden center was well maintained all summer and open until 9 or 10 PM. Never any wait to check out at garden, either. The floor employees have no sense of urgency but are quite good spirited people and comply with the company dress code better than any Wal Mart I've ever seen. I routinely encounter an assistant manager in the evenings who is very good at what he is doing and very helpful.

Carson City, NV has a Target that opened in 1995 and has received ZERO capital. It even has the original shopping carts and hand baskets. It closed its customer service and moved it to register 1 for a while but reversed that move fairly quickly. This is a store that has never done well, but I think business has picked up a little the past few years. There is no grocery store (other than a Wal Mart Supercenter, Trader Joe's, and Costco) for about 10 minutes in one direction and 20 minutes in the other direction but fairly steady housing all the way... yet this store never received a P-Fresh. Staples and Ross both closed next to the Carson Target but Home Depot remains open.

I agree, Target certainly has the environment that would be ideal...relatively clean and orderly, etc.

Thinking about my recent Target attempts, I was highly disappointed a few months ago when I went in to a Target in Houston to find mostly one item (printer paper) but after searching a while, I found a few stacks of printer paper tucked at the bottom corner of the shelf and it was all Target's store brand. So I had to go to the Walmart down the street which I was dreading, asked where the printer paper was, and sure enough, it was right there in a convenient and open location with the Georgia-Pacific brand that I wanted. I was astounded that a Walmart trip was this painless.

I think that Target has a more mild syndrome of what Sears suffers from (even if Sears' stores DID receive capital expenditure) is, "Why go there?"
Supermarkets have become my store of choice due to their vast food selection (Target and Walmart suck at this, and Walmart grotesquely overcharges for milk too), and they have improved that their GM/drug store type selection covers most of the "replenishable" items I would need (like toilet paper, toothpaste, deodorant, detergent, pencil lead). Everything else I would expect Walmart to have because Target's hardlines are usually pretty limited (automotive comes to mind). Electronics and big-ticket items are usually bought online, and I need clothing so rarely that those are the few times I'll schlep to a department store because I can usually find equivalent quality for about the same price or lower. That leaves very little space for Target, and I think that other people feel the same way.

I would like to see that Carson City Target though, I always did a fondness for the colorful neon throughout the store.

[Super S]

I agree, Target certainly has the environment that would be ideal...relatively clean and orderly, etc.

Thinking about my recent Target attempts, I was highly disappointed a few months ago when I went in to a Target in Houston to find mostly one item (printer paper) but after searching a while, I found a few stacks of printer paper tucked at the bottom corner of the shelf and it was all Target's store brand. So I had to go to the Walmart down the street which I was dreading, asked where the printer paper was, and sure enough, it was right there in a convenient and open location with the Georgia-Pacific brand that I wanted. I was astounded that a Walmart trip was this painless.

I think that Target has a more mild syndrome of what Sears suffers from (even if Sears' stores DID receive capital expenditure) is, "Why go there?"
Supermarkets have become my store of choice due to their vast food selection (Target and Walmart suck at this, and Walmart grotesquely overcharges for milk too), and they have improved that their GM/drug store type selection covers most of the "replenishable" items I would need (like toilet paper, toothpaste, deodorant, detergent, pencil lead). Everything else I would expect Walmart to have because Target's hardlines are usually pretty limited (automotive comes to mind). Electronics and big-ticket items are usually bought online, and I need clothing so rarely that those are the few times I'll schlep to a department store because I can usually find equivalent quality for about the same price or lower. That leaves very little space for Target, and I think that other people feel the same way.

I would like to see that Carson City Target though, I always did a fondness for the colorful neon throughout the store.

Target has historically always had a relatively weak hardlines mix, and it has gotten worse as time has gone on. Automotive is a great example...I remember Target having a bigger selection and stocking things such as oil filters and spark plugs. These days it's a miracle if you can find enough oil to do an oil change. I get the impression that Target caters to the "yuppies that trade cars every two years instead of maintaining them" crowd.

Walmart deserves some credit for maintaining decent hardlines departments in their stores. This is something that Kmart was very good at when in their prime. Although Kmart has scaled that back, and prices are not always that great, even they do a better job in that area than Target does.

[pseudo3d]

Target has historically always had a relatively weak hardlines mix, and it has gotten worse as time has gone on. Automotive is a great example...I remember Target having a bigger selection and stocking things such as oil filters and spark plugs. These days it's a miracle if you can find enough oil to do an oil change. I get the impression that Target caters to the "yuppies that trade cars every two years instead of maintaining them" crowd.

Walmart deserves some credit for maintaining decent hardlines departments in their stores. This is something that Kmart was very good at when in their prime. Although Kmart has scaled that back, and prices are not always that great, even they do a better job in that area than Target does.

Target seems to "target" an increasingly urban, progressive market these days as few mass market retailers are really suited for urban areas (Kmart has made in-roads into NYC but never really was able to effectively capture the areas where it counts, while Walmart suffers from the "neighborhood killer with ratty customers" syndrome) but I don't think that's a great long-term strategy since so much of what it built on was being a better competitor to Walmart and Kmart in markets that could support it, and I think it's those stores that are really carrying the chain.