Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Predicting the demise of Sears & Kmart since 2017!
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote: January 28th, 2018, 8:35 pm
pseudo3d wrote: January 28th, 2018, 2:42 pm The Bryan store wasn't the one doing the damage (by the time the Bryan store moved close to the bypass as a Supercenter, the Hearne store already closed), the "market couldn't support it" because it was being robbed blind. While there isn't access to newspapers circa 1990, here's one newspaper article from 2004 that brings that up if you wanted real news and not message board hearsay. Hearne isn't just economically depressed (lots of smaller towns are), it's notorious for local corruption, and has been for years.
I didn't say it was killed by neighboring Supercenters, because there weren't any yet. I said neighboring stores were taking its business, and the economy in the town was such that it couldn't support any form of store.

As for the newspaper, I trust small town Texas newspapers about as much as I trust the gossip column, because that's all most of them are. I have found evidence that Walmart closed this store due to lack of business. At that point, only a very, VERY small number of Walmart stores had closed for any reason, much less relocation or expansion. If you read Sam's autobiography, he mentions this store for lack of business, and one in Irving, TX. Irving was rampant with internal theft, but was turned around and brought back to eventually be relocated. There was no hope of bringing this store back to profitability because it didn't sell enough.
Sam Walton's "Made in America" doesn't mention Hearne at all. It mentions Irving, which mentions that they had wanted to close it but ended up not doing it. So there was reason to close high-shrink stores, even back in Sam Walton's day, but unlike Irving, Hearne wasn't able to be turned around (after all, Walton would want to focus on successes, not failures). Secondly, why would an economically depressed area (so poor they couldn't afford a Wal-Mart, supposedly) take an hour round-trip to Bryan WHILE THEIR STORE WAS STILL OPEN?
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by Super S »

pseudo3d wrote: January 29th, 2018, 7:16 pm

Sam Walton's "Made in America" doesn't mention Hearne at all. It mentions Irving, which mentions that they had wanted to close it but ended up not doing it. So there was reason to close high-shrink stores, even back in Sam Walton's day, but unlike Irving, Hearne wasn't able to be turned around (after all, Walton would want to focus on successes, not failures). Secondly, why would an economically depressed area (so poor they couldn't afford a Wal-Mart, supposedly) take an hour round-trip to Bryan WHILE THEIR STORE WAS STILL OPEN?
Perhaps this was a smaller store that didn't carry as many items, or maybe management was such that things were regularly out of stock. If you encounter such things on a regular basis, especially when other local shopping options are limited, people will sometimes go where the store is managed better and there are more options as they feel that local options are a waste of time.

I have watched as my local mall has struggled in recent years due to mismanagement, and due to the fact that anchor stores are on the small side, at best the 50K-60K range. Stores such as Macys and Sears left because they lacked the selection of larger stores within an hour drive (Not the same category as Walmart, I know, but the smaller stores are the ones closing first) Most locals I know don't even visit the mall any more for these reasons.

There is a certain Walmart in Portland that I avoid due to its smaller size and odd layout. There are stores reasonably close by (across the river in Washington) where the better layout and selection outweighs the fact that there is no sales tax in Oregon.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by wnetmacman »

Super S wrote: January 30th, 2018, 9:27 am Perhaps this was a smaller store that didn't carry as many items, or maybe management was such that things were regularly out of stock. If you encounter such things on a regular basis, especially when other local shopping options are limited, people will sometimes go where the store is managed better and there are more options as they feel that local options are a waste of time.

I have watched as my local mall has struggled in recent years due to mismanagement, and due to the fact that anchor stores are on the small side, at best the 50K-60K range. Stores such as Macys and Sears left because they lacked the selection of larger stores within an hour drive (Not the same category as Walmart, I know, but the smaller stores are the ones closing first) Most locals I know don't even visit the mall any more for these reasons.

There is a certain Walmart in Portland that I avoid due to its smaller size and odd layout. There are stores reasonably close by (across the river in Washington) where the better layout and selection outweighs the fact that there is no sales tax in Oregon.
This, 1000%. Here are a couple more examples.

In Lafayette Parish, Louisiana, where I live, there are currently five Walmart stores, all Supercenters:

#531, 3142 Ambassador Caffrey, Lafayette
#534, 1229 NW Evangeline Thruway, Lafayette
#2938, 2428 W. Pinhook, Lafayette
#415, 123 St. Naizare, Broussard (moved from St. Martinville in 2012 or so)
#7301, 3810 NE Evangeline Thruway, Carencro (opened 4/1/2017)

Of these five stores, each has a different character. 531 and 534 replaced former Woolco stores. 531 is in a better section of town, and is the busiest of the 5 stores. 534, however, is known to many locals as 'Murder Mart', because of the level of crime in and near the store. Most of the customers who would shop at 534 because of proximity actually skip over it and go to 531 or now 7301. And 2938 got a lot of customers from Broussard until 415 moved in. I still go to 2938 even though I live less than a mile from 7301, because when that store puts items on clearance, they are usually better deals to get the old stuff out quick. The jury is still out on how well 7301 is doing, but the city of Carencro isn't complaining.

Longview, TX, near where I grew up, had two stores in the 80's, #398 and #399. Both were positioned north of Marshall Avenue, US80. We lived south of town, and even though it was more difficult to get to #399, we usually shopped there first, because items were typically better stocked. 398 was actually one of the few 'slow' Walmart stores to become a Supercenter, and it was actually the 12th Supercenter built, in 1992. It so grew the business so fast, and was so easy to get to that folks forgot about 399. Later, 399 was moved to a Supercenter, and a third Supercenter was opened on the south side of town in 2007. But folks from where my family live still go up to 398. Where we lived, we also had access to stores in Marshall, Kilgore, Carthage and Henderson, and each had a slightly different atmosphere. Carthage was a tiny store, much like Hearne, but it did well. Henderson was an older store, but it had the old-style Walmart charm until it was upgraded.

So saying that folks wouldn't be willing to drive a half hour to get to a better store is just not correct, and a bad assumption.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by klkla »

wnetmacman wrote: January 30th, 2018, 11:39 amSo saying that folks wouldn't be willing to drive a half hour to get to a better store is just not correct, and a bad assumption.
Even in L.A. that is true. I have known people that lived south of the 10 freeway in south central L.A. that drive to West LA/BH/Hollywood for the same reasons you listed in your post. It's not as long a distance but can easily take half an hour or more in our traffic.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by pseudo3d »

I'm not sure why the possibility of Hearne closing it due to internal shoplifting is somehow impossible to you and all references that point to that are dismissed, but I will leave with a number of points.

- Using Google Earth measurements, the Hearne store was about 42,000 square feet. The Bryan store was substantially larger at about 70,000 square feet. Today, the Walmart in College Station attracts a crowd from Navasota, but the Navasota Walmart still stands. Plus, the Caldwell Walmart was fairly close and was able to survive on its own.
- The mainstream articles (here, here refer to how the people of Hearne did shop at Wal-Mart and were unhappy about driving all the way to Bryan for a Wal-Mart.
- How did Wal-Mart drive the local stores out of business in Hearne but never turn a profit itself, ever?
- If it wasn't internal problems, why would Wal-Mart replace the entire management team?
- Sam Walton's book refers to the fact that "The Wal-Mart way can't reach folks who have been thieves" and does mention that the high-theft Irving store was on the brink of closure due to internal shoplifting. Irving was only mentioned because it was a success story on that front. (Hearne wasn't mentioned at all)
- No chain would ever admit publicly that their store closed due to internal shoplifting.
- Their spokesperson that one of the articles cites (and probably where the "stores too close" story came from) is completely clueless.
Don Shinkle, a spokesman at Wal-Mart headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., said the store had not turned a profit once since it opened. Apparently, he said, Hearne is too close to Bryan and Navasota, two towns with larger Wal-Marts.
First, College Station is much closer than Navasota (it was about 85,000 square feet before even its first expansion, today it measures over 200,000 square feet) and Navasota's store (still original) is smaller than Hearne's ever was. Plus, Hearne and Navasota are about 40 miles apart.

And one more thing...
Hearne never turned a profit from opening in 1980, but the Bryan store opened in 1982. So at least for the first few years, the Bryan store can't be used as an excuse.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by wnetmacman »

So, let me address your points one at a time.

First, all your ‘references’ are hearsay; rumors, if you will. You even go so far as to reference a Walmart Spokesman’s facts on the matter later on, noting that the store had never turned a profit and that stores nearby were indeed pulling business from it, which I stated earlier. Maybe I’m wrong about Sam saying something in his biography about it. I’ve only read it 8 times, so it’s possible I’m incorrect, but I have seen a quote from Sam about it stating the same thing; the store wasn’t profitable, ever. No mention of shrinkage. If any company will be honest with you about store performance and why it failed, it’s Walmart. They were also not so big at the time that they weren't willing to admit fault.
pseudo3d wrote: January 30th, 2018, 8:32 pm Don Shinkle, a spokesman at Wal-Mart headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., said the store had not turned a profit once since it opened. Apparently, he said, Hearne is too close to Bryan and Navasota, two towns with larger Wal-Marts.
On to a geography lesson now….
  • So Hearne is a town in Robertson, County. Hearne’s population as of 2010 was 4459, and Robertson County is 16,622. During the 80’s, Hearne lost several large employers which hit the economy hard. It's important to note that the NYT article quoted above shows the population at 5600, which would reflect a loss of 1100 over the last 28 years. Hearne’s Walmart opened in 1980 and closed in 1990. Hearne is 20 miles from downtown Bryan.
  • Navasota, population 7,476, is in Grimes County, population 26,604. Navasota is 48 miles from Hearne, and 28 miles from Bryan.
  • Bryan, population 76,201, and College Station, population 93,857, are both part of Brazos County, Texas, population 194, 851. Brazos County is Robertson’s immediate southern neighbor. During the 80’s, there were but two Walmart stores in town, which catered to this large number of people. In a metro area this large, there are also malls, larger shopping areas and supermarkets that would cater to folks from much further out. Hearne wasn’t nearly big enough for a major mall or anything near it, but Bryan/College Station, owing to the location of Texas A&M University, was and still is.
The point of this lesson is that your comparison of the stores and their sizes is an apples to lemons comparison. It’s unfair. You see, Bryan was serving its 76000 residents with an 85000 square foot store, where Hearne was serving its 4600 residents with a 40000 square foot store. See why that sounds a little silly now? Hearne residents had 10 square feet each, where Bryan had a little more than 1. If a store has to make, say $150/sf in sales to be profitable, then each resident had to purchase $1500/year from the store for it to work, where Bryan residents only had to spend $150. We know that there are roughly 5 times the folks in Bryan as in all of Robertson County, so you see why that also may be difficult. When you combine this with the possibility that some of the Robertson County folks may be doing some shopping in the larger BCS area instead of Hearne, you can now see why Hearne could have been failing.
pseudo3d wrote: January 30th, 2018, 8:32 pm First, College Station is much closer than Navasota (it was about 85,000 square feet before even its first expansion, today it measures over 200,000 square feet) and Navasota's store (still original) is smaller than Hearne's ever was. Plus, Hearne and Navasota are about 40 miles apart.
Here’s a pie chart to show the population comparison. Hearne is the small blue sliver.
popercent.jpg
Essentially, Hearne, on paper, really didn’t have a chance. It wasn’t even the county seat, which is a usual marker for early Walmart stores. When Bryan opened, Hearne was toast.
pseudo3d wrote: January 30th, 2018, 8:32 pm - The mainstream articles (here, here refer to how the people of Hearne did shop at Wal-Mart and were unhappy about driving all the way to Bryan for a Wal-Mart.
The New York Times and Chicago Tribune have long been biased AGAINST Walmart. Also, if you watch any news station, if they stop folks long enough, they'll always get what they want you to hear from a local. It's real easy to get Joe Redneck to speak his mind.
pseudo3d wrote: January 30th, 2018, 8:32 pm- How did Wal-Mart drive the local stores out of business in Hearne but never turn a profit itself, ever?
2 reasons. Lower prices brought them in. The lower prices were not enough to bring enough folks from further around once other stores were built nearby.
pseudo3d wrote: January 30th, 2018, 8:32 pm- If it wasn't internal problems, why would Wal-Mart replace the entire management team?
Common practice even now is to replace management when problems surface.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote: January 31st, 2018, 7:27 am
First, all your ‘references’ are hearsay; rumors, if you will.
I gave you one from the Bryan-College Station Eagle, which is much larger than Hearne as you mention. But apparently, you're dead-set on dismissing that.
You even go so far as to reference a Walmart Spokesman’s facts on the matter later on, noting that the store had never turned a profit and that stores nearby were indeed pulling business from it, which I stated earlier.
That was from the larger articles, and I made a point to say how clueless he was. He said Bryan and Navasota had larger stores that drew away from Hearne.
- Bryan's store opened two years after Hearne.
- Navasota's store was smaller than Hearne.
- Navasota's store is VERY far away from Hearne.

Yet despite the spokesperson being obviously ill-informed, this is somehow accepted as true and correct! If a spokesperson for Albertsons (today) made this sort of egregious error when trying to explain away a closing store reported on Retailwatchers, we'd have at least three people call them out on it.
Maybe I’m wrong about Sam saying something in his biography about it. I’ve only read it 8 times, so it’s possible I’m incorrect, but I have seen a quote from Sam about it stating the same thing; the store wasn’t profitable, ever. No mention of shrinkage. If any company will be honest with you about store performance and why it failed, it’s Walmart. They were also not so big at the time that they weren't willing to admit fault.
I pulled up a PDF of Sam Walton's book just to see if Hearne was mentioned. (link). I found where they talked about Irving, but I searched "close", "unprofitable", "Texas", and "Hearne" and couldn't find it. If there's a reference you have, I'd love to see it, but that's what I found.
On to a geography lesson now….


The point of this lesson is that your comparison of the stores and their sizes is an apples to lemons comparison. It’s unfair. You see, Bryan was serving its 76000 residents with an 85000 square foot store, where Hearne was serving its 4600 residents with a 40000 square foot store. See why that sounds a little silly now? Hearne residents had 10 square feet each, where Bryan had a little more than 1. If a store has to make, say $150/sf in sales to be profitable, then each resident had to purchase $1500/year from the store for it to work, where Bryan residents only had to spend $150. We know that there are roughly 5 times the folks in Bryan as in all of Robertson County, so you see why that also may be difficult. When you combine this with the possibility that some of the Robertson County folks may be doing some shopping in the larger BCS area instead of Hearne, you can now see why Hearne could have been failing.
You bring that up but there are too many other examples of that being untrue. First, according to Sam Walton's biography previously cited, Walton sought out populations below 10,000 (and arguably in decline, as small towns post WWII were).

Rockdale was 5,600 population (in 1980) with a store size about the same size of Hearne (likely same prototype). Despite barely any growth, the store was replaced with a Supercenter in 2005-ish (when its population was around 6,000). Today, with the loss of Alcoa it has returned to 5,000.
Navasota was 5,900 in 1980. Today its population is around 7,000. Their store is slightly smaller than Hearne's was but it does well, despite the draw of the College Station Supercenter. Arguably, the CS Supercenter has prevented them from getting their own, but we're not talking closing here.
Giddings was 4,000 in 1980. Their store (still open in original form) is the same size of Hearne.
Caldwell was 3,000 in 1980. Their store (still open in original form) is slightly smaller than Hearne, but it's the same distance as Hearne is to the Bryan store.

So no, that's not an excuse.
Essentially, Hearne, on paper, really didn’t have a chance. It wasn’t even the county seat, which is a usual marker for early Walmart stores. When Bryan opened, Hearne was toast.
Of course Bryan-College Station are going to be bigger. It didn't stop Navasota either...
The New York Times and Chicago Tribune have long been biased AGAINST Walmart. Also, if you watch any news station, if they stop folks long enough, they'll always get what they want you to hear from a local. It's real easy to get Joe Redneck to speak his mind.
If "no one shopped there" according to your logic but then all the other remaining local stores had to stock similar items after Wal-Mart left, how does that make any sense? Either they shopped Bryan and the local stores wouldn't need to start stocking basic supplies, or there was shoplifting going on within Hearne even if honest people did shop there.
2 reasons. Lower prices brought them in. The lower prices were not enough to bring enough folks from further around once other stores were built nearby.
If that was true, then why didn't Caldwell and Navasota pack it in years ago when Bryan and College Station opened? Heck, Bryan even has a second store right on the west side of town now. Yet, both stores are humming and have been more or less updated with current trends.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmI gave you one from the Bryan-College Station Eagle, which is much larger than Hearne as you mention. But apparently, you're dead-set on dismissing that.
I dismiss it because it was an interview with Joe Redneck off the street, as I mentioned later. If a reporter wants to report certain information, they will hunt someone down who they can quote. He wasn't a Walmart employee.
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmThat was from the larger articles, and I made a point to say how clueless he was. He said Bryan and Navasota had larger stores that drew away from Hearne.
- Bryan's store opened two years after Hearne.
- Navasota's store was smaller than Hearne.
- Navasota's store is VERY far away from Hearne.
But again, the Bryan store is larger. Even you said that. Not sure why he put Navasota in the same sentence, but that DOES NOT make him clueless.
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmYet despite the spokesperson being obviously ill-informed, this is somehow accepted as true and correct! If a spokesperson for Albertsons (today) made this sort of egregious error when trying to explain away a closing store reported on Retailwatchers, we'd have at least three people call them out on it.
How do you know he is ill-informed? What CONCRETE PROOF from WALMART do you have?????
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmI found where they talked about Irving, but I searched "close", "unprofitable", "Texas", and "Hearne" and couldn't find it. If there's a reference you have, I'd love to see it, but that's what I found.
It is possible that I read that quote elsewhere, but it WAS from Sam. I will find it.
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmYou bring that up but there are too many other examples of that being untrue. First, according to Sam Walton's biography previously cited, Walton sought out populations below 10,000 (and arguably in decline, as small towns post WWII were).

Rockdale was 5,600 population (in 1980) with a store size about the same size of Hearne (likely same prototype). Despite barely any growth, the store was replaced with a Supercenter in 2005-ish (when its population was around 6,000). Today, with the loss of Alcoa it has returned to 5,000.
Navasota was 5,900 in 1980. Today its population is around 7,000. Their store is slightly smaller than Hearne's was but it does well, despite the draw of the College Station Supercenter. Arguably, the CS Supercenter has prevented them from getting their own, but we're not talking closing here.
Giddings was 4,000 in 1980. Their store (still open in original form) is the same size of Hearne.
Caldwell was 3,000 in 1980. Their store (still open in original form) is slightly smaller than Hearne, but it's the same distance as Hearne is to the Bryan store.

So no, that's not an excuse.
None of these cities faced what Hearne faced between 1980 and 1990. Not one. The economy was better in each city. That's my reasoning.
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmOf course Bryan-College Station are going to be bigger. It didn't stop Navasota either...


See my previous reason.
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmIf "no one shopped there" according to your logic but then all the other remaining local stores had to stock similar items after Wal-Mart left, how does that make any sense? Either they shopped Bryan and the local stores wouldn't need to start stocking basic supplies, or there was shoplifting going on within Hearne even if honest people did shop there.
Not 'no one', just simply not enough. Too much out of town spending. Read my post before you began your diatribe about Lafayette and Longview. I don't think you read that at all, or you wouldn't be spending so much of my time on this.
pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2018, 6:47 pmIf that was true, then why didn't Caldwell and Navasota pack it in years ago when Bryan and College Station opened? Heck, Bryan even has a second store right on the west side of town now. Yet, both stores are humming and have been more or less updated with current trends.
See my note about the economy of Hearne vs. all other cities around above.

MODERATOR NOTE: We need to steer this conversation back to the original topic. We've stayed here too long.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by arizonaguy »

Alpha8472 wrote: January 27th, 2018, 4:54 am This closure is most likely due to massive shoplifting. The store may do a ton of business, but all the corporate office cares about is how much shoplifting is going on. If there is too much shoplifting and low profit, then the corporate office is willing to kill the store. Shoplifting is not just the mobs of people stealing merchandise. It could also be massive internal theft as well. I heard from Walmart employees that a dairy truck with over $20,000 worth of dairy products was stolen. That was not a random attack. Someone on the inside must have leaked the information and coordinated a plan to steal it.

Also there are problems with cashiers stealing money. There was a cashier that stole over $14,000 over several months. The store took months to take action before calling the police. Killing a Walmart store is not just to cut losses, but to punish the employees at the store. They will be let go and not reassigned. Walmart doesn't want such people to go on to other stores and ruin those stores as well. It could be a ring of people stealing from within.

The land is most likely very valuable. It could easily be converted to condominiums and bring in much more profit that way. I don't know if Walmart owns the land or if someone else owns the land. If someone else owns the land, they probably realize that they can make much more money using it to build condos.
An article I read indicated that the land for the Walmart store and the Sam's Club were leased and there is speculation that the developer may want to redevelop the property. If the Michael's, Sprint, and See's Candy (the only other tenants in that center) close in short order then we know this may be initiated by the landlord.

Plus, I've read Google reviews indicating that this is a less than desirable neighborhood (so theft, shoplifting, other crime may be a factor).

Walmart appears to have a "new-ish" neighborhood market nearby at Fulton Ave / Marconi Ave.
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Re: Wal Mart Closing 02/06 Sacramento, CA El Camino Ave.

Post by storewanderer »

arizonaguy wrote: February 2nd, 2018, 8:25 am
An article I read indicated that the land for the Walmart store and the Sam's Club were leased and there is speculation that the developer may want to redevelop the property. If the Michael's, Sprint, and See's Candy (the only other tenants in that center) close in short order then we know this may be initiated by the landlord.

Plus, I've read Google reviews indicating that this is a less than desirable neighborhood (so theft, shoplifting, other crime may be a factor).

Walmart appears to have a "new-ish" neighborhood market nearby at Fulton Ave / Marconi Ave.
Michael's is closing too.

The neighborhood does seem to have declined in the past few years. It used to be just fine...

Fresh & Easy had a store at this intersection as well, which was an in-line location and did not do well.

The Wal Mart having 359 employees does seem to allude to that it was doing some volume. A lot more than the smaller (though with a very big parking lot) nearby neighborhood market can absorb.
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