Issues at Subway

Super S
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by Super S » December 31st, 2017, 9:17 am

pseudo3d wrote:
December 30th, 2017, 1:21 pm
wnetmacman wrote:
December 30th, 2017, 11:03 am
pseudo3d wrote:
December 30th, 2017, 9:17 am
What I think will happen is that (if the economy holds up) is that a lot of Subway franchisees will break off and form a new company similar to Kaleidoscoops/Baskin-Robbins in 1999 (where terminated franchises banded together and made a new ice cream company), that is, a sandwich shop operation very similar to Subway operations-wise but free of Subway's bullshit that forces inferior ingredients and an impossible price point. I'd like to see this chain, personally, and hope they carry more unusual ingredients like garlic. :D
You mean like Quiznos or Blimpie? Already we are speaking of an overcrowded market. All three have shown that it isn't a good concept. Giving the franchisees room to go rogue won't work, as the oven is owned by Subway and must be returned upon closure.
The sandwich market is indeed very overcrowded, but I don't think anyone has done it quite like Subway with all ingredients in full view. I think that's one of the reasons they became so popular to begin with. (disclaimer: never been to Blimpie or Quiznos). That was also part of their downfall is that the ingredients just don't look very good a lot of the time. The disadvantage of another franchise of course is falling prey to the same mistakes Subway made to begin with.
Blimpie was much like a very basic version of Subway. No toasted subs, but ingredients were pretty much in full view. I actually liked them as I thought their products seemed fresher. But they have been steadily disappearing from the Pacific Northwest and I haven't seen one in a few years. Quiznos seems like they have many issues with franchisees...went to one once and wanted to have a sandwich made a specific way (due to allergies) and they threw a fit when they had to deviate from the "assembly line" menu. This left a bad impression on me, and a big chunk of Quiznos locations have closed. Subway took the toasted sandwich concept and ran with it though. Personally, I would choose Subway over Quiznos any day.

Meanwhile, many of the longtime independent sandwich shops have disappeared. While there is spotty coverage by Firehouse Subs, Jimmy John's, and others, nobody comes close to Subway as far as number of locations, and is often the only sandwich shop in a given area.

storewanderer
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by storewanderer » December 31st, 2017, 11:10 pm

In my area there is, and always has been, some concept called Port of Subs and the entire thing is just like a Subway except there is a big deli slicer at the beginning of the line and they slice the meat and then put it on the bread and run it down the line (their line looks very much like a Subway line).

Not sure who copied who, but Port of Subs has been like this since the 80's. Port of Subs has been running this sort of format here in Nevada before there was even a Subway in the state. I would say their quality is about on par with Subway.

I actually am quite confused by some of these places like Firehouse and Togos where you do not stand there and watch them make your sandwich and tell them what to add/not add as it goes down the line...

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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by klkla » January 1st, 2018, 6:54 pm

storewanderer wrote:
December 31st, 2017, 11:10 pm
I actually am quite confused by some of these places like Firehouse and Togos where you do not stand there and watch them make your sandwich and tell them what to add/not add as it goes down the line...
Togo's makes their sandwiches in front of you but you don't see all the ingredients behind a glass counter. The quality of their sandwiches is much better than Subway IMO.

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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by storewanderer » January 1st, 2018, 9:00 pm

Simply put I think Subway overexpanded but many sub chains did this too over the years. I think the difference with Subway is they opened a lot more locations in total than the others did so it is more noticeable. In my area, Port of Subs has been pretty stable, but they have also had a good number of openings and closings. Blimpie and Quiznos at one point in my area had at least a dozen locations each; now Quiznos is down to about 5 locatons which based on what I have seen in other areas, is actually a decent concentration, and Blimpie is down to one lone location at a truck stop in Battle Mountain, NV.

Togos had a location for years here in the 80's, then closed it by the mid 90's, giving in to a Subway (which was in a mall that has since been demolished) and Port of Subs (still open) down the block (ironically the old Togos is now a Subway). Togos re-entered maybe 8 years ago with a location in Sparks that closed real quick; so quick I did not even get to try it. I did try a Togos in Colfax, CA (about 1.5 hours away) a number of years ago and don't recall having any particularly positive or negative impression of it. But that Togos is out of business now too. Togos recently tried again with a location in Truckee and that one just went out of business too. https://www.yelp.com/biz/togos-sandwich ... =date_desc

I think the low cost to open these sandwich franchises is what causes this instability. People see the low cost to open one and think they can build a little business of a half dozen or dozen stores up real fast. They see the food cost as pretty low, potential labor costs as low, not worrying about the cost of utilities for a big freezer or a big pizza oven, etc. Then of course sales do not meet forecasts and operating low volume businesses is extremely challenging even if your costs are low.

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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by Brian Lutz » January 1st, 2018, 9:41 pm

There is one location in Redmond near where I used to live that started out as a Togo's shortly after the building was constructed (my brother had a job there for a while) then later became a Blimpie, which may have been the only Blimpie in the area if I recall correctly. Eventually that closed down too, and I believe there is now a Jersey Mike's there. I'm not sure there are any Blimpie or Togo's locations left here, and Quizno's is down to a handful of locations (my uncle owns a Sub Zero Ice Cream shop in Federal Way located in a former Quizno's location.)

As far as sandwich shops go, it seems that Jimmy John's is doing pretty well in this area, at least in comparison to the others. Their focus seems to be far less on customization and more on speed and offering delivery (which works especially well in concentrated urban areas where they can have people deliver on bike.) I've heard less than positive things about some of the higher ups at Jimmy John's, but on a per-store level they seem to be doing well.

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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by rwsandiego » January 1st, 2018, 10:23 pm

IMO, Jimmy John's and Jersey Mike's have contributed to Subway's problems because both chains offer a superior product in terms of ingredients and bread. They also offer a decent sandwich at all of their locations, while the quality from Subway to Subway is variable. I started eating at Subway on a regular basis when one opened up in my neighborhood in San Diego. The sandwich quality was terrific and all the employees knew their customers. Three other local Subways operated in much the same way. (Two of the three were owned by the same person and the third was owned by a family, all of whom worked in the shop).However, when I'd travel and try a Subway I was always disappointed.

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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by Super S » January 14th, 2018, 9:23 am

Brian Lutz wrote:
January 1st, 2018, 9:41 pm
There is one location in Redmond near where I used to live that started out as a Togo's shortly after the building was constructed (my brother had a job there for a while) then later became a Blimpie, which may have been the only Blimpie in the area if I recall correctly. Eventually that closed down too, and I believe there is now a Jersey Mike's there. I'm not sure there are any Blimpie or Togo's locations left here, and Quizno's is down to a handful of locations (my uncle owns a Sub Zero Ice Cream shop in Federal Way located in a former Quizno's location.)

As far as sandwich shops go, it seems that Jimmy John's is doing pretty well in this area, at least in comparison to the others. Their focus seems to be far less on customization and more on speed and offering delivery (which works especially well in concentrated urban areas where they can have people deliver on bike.) I've heard less than positive things about some of the higher ups at Jimmy John's, but on a per-store level they seem to be doing well.
I will confess that I have never eaten at the Jimmy John's near me. But I have been told by others that in my area they have VERY spotty delivery coverage, and in some cases will deliver to one house but not a house across the street (both of which are not in a bad area) and I have also been told that the local store (in Longview, WA) will not deliver at all to addresses in Kelso, WA (which is about a mile away) The chains that built themselves on delivery such as Domino's do not have such restrictions.

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