Issues at Subway

storewanderer
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by storewanderer »

What I find interesting about Subways is they do not seem to "die" easily. I have seen a number of Subways in my market and also in some smaller towns close over the years, and they always re-open (as Subway) under new ownership. Sometimes they close for a few months, etc. What is also interesting is when they re-open typically the inside has been spiffed up somehow; re-doing the walls, in one case a new floor, etc. The Subways I've seen close have typically been due to circumstances out of their control (one was in a mall that got demolished, one was in a casino and its space was turned into a spa, one was in a shopping center that got its parking removed due to a road widening, some have closed in gas stations after an ownership change where the new owner does not continue the Subway, etc).

Comparing this to Quiznos and Blimpie which at one time had about a dozen stores each in my market... when those close, they close for good. Actually, a couple of the Quiznos turned into Subways...
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote:What I find interesting about Subways is they do not seem to "die" easily. I have seen a number of Subways in my market and also in some smaller towns close over the years, and they always re-open (as Subway) under new ownership. Sometimes they close for a few months, etc. What is also interesting is when they re-open typically the inside has been spiffed up somehow; re-doing the walls, in one case a new floor, etc. The Subways I've seen close have typically been due to circumstances out of their control (one was in a mall that got demolished, one was in a casino and its space was turned into a spa, one was in a shopping center that got its parking removed due to a road widening, some have closed in gas stations after an ownership change where the new owner does not continue the Subway, etc).

Comparing this to Quiznos and Blimpie which at one time had about a dozen stores each in my market... when those close, they close for good. Actually, a couple of the Quiznos turned into Subways...
Arguably, that could be because Subway stores (and I do see them close on a semi-regular basis) just aren't as "visible" as others are. With McDonald's, a store closure leaves behind a fairly conspicuous box (and straight McD closures that aren't in a mall or gas station or were demolished for widening aren't terribly common aggregated over 30+ years, really, because they are stable, compared to less-stable businesses like Burger King).

Stand-alone Subways are relatively rare, and most are located in strip malls and gas stations, making them easy to disappear.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote:Arguably, that could be because Subway stores (and I do see them close on a semi-regular basis) just aren't as "visible" as others are. With McDonald's, a store closure leaves behind a fairly conspicuous box (and straight McD closures that aren't in a mall or gas station or were demolished for widening aren't terribly common aggregated over 30+ years, really, because they are stable, compared to less-stable businesses like Burger King).

Stand-alone Subways are relatively rare, and most are located in strip malls and gas stations, making them easy to disappear.
True. Unlike McDonald's, Burger King, Pizza Hut, and countless other chains, Subway doesn't have a consistent exterior architecture. When you do find the rare standalone location, in almost every case it was built as something else. We have one here in an old mission-style Taco Bell. I can think of one Subway I've seen in my travels that was built as a new, standalone building.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by Super S »

I have only seen one freestanding Subway that was actually built as a Subway. But it seems that it was built on an old building slab on the site.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by buckguy »

The upfront investment is still relatively cheap and the model is still pretty simple and doesn't require a lot of space. I'm sure they easily find new franchisees for closed properties.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by Alpha8472 »

2016 was the first year that Subway had a loss of locations. They lost over 350 stores that year. They still have more locations than McDonald's, but McDonald's makes much more in sales.

They hired someone to improve public relations after the Jared scandal and they are trying to get rid of antibiotics. The food is still boring, and nothing new has interested me at all.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by storewanderer »

Maybe they can add more coffee products. Maybe they need to learn how to properly brew iced tea first.

They could also add more bakery oven products, like muffins. Well based on some posts here maybe they need to learn how to bake bread first...

Higher quality lunchmeat may be a wise step...

Also not to go into politics but with higher minimum wages coming in more and more places, which it appears is what a lot of Subways pay based on the (lack of) quality of the operation, and given that a lot of Subways don't make much money to begin with, I wonder how many more will be washed out of business in future years due to the low volume/low wage concept no longer being viable...
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote:Maybe they can add more coffee products. Maybe they need to learn how to properly brew iced tea first.

They could also add more bakery oven products, like muffins. Well based on some posts here maybe they need to learn how to bake bread first...

Higher quality lunchmeat may be a wise step...

Also not to go into politics but with higher minimum wages coming in more and more places, which it appears is what a lot of Subways pay based on the (lack of) quality of the operation, and given that a lot of Subways don't make much money to begin with, I wonder how many more will be washed out of business in future years due to the low volume/low wage concept no longer being viable...
Subway was really pushing breakfast for a while. Not sure if they still even offer it. I had heard from a few friends that the offerings were not really that great, among other things, eggs, sausage, etc. were precooked then microwaved.

I have to agree that better quality offerings would help. One I already mentioned was the spotty availability of Swiss cheese.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by pseudo3d »

Super S wrote:
storewanderer wrote:Maybe they can add more coffee products. Maybe they need to learn how to properly brew iced tea first.

They could also add more bakery oven products, like muffins. Well based on some posts here maybe they need to learn how to bake bread first...

Higher quality lunchmeat may be a wise step...

Also not to go into politics but with higher minimum wages coming in more and more places, which it appears is what a lot of Subways pay based on the (lack of) quality of the operation, and given that a lot of Subways don't make much money to begin with, I wonder how many more will be washed out of business in future years due to the low volume/low wage concept no longer being viable...
Subway was really pushing breakfast for a while. Not sure if they still even offer it. I had heard from a few friends that the offerings were not really that great, among other things, eggs, sausage, etc. were precooked then microwaved.

I have to agree that better quality offerings would help. One I already mentioned was the spotty availability of Swiss cheese.
For local stores, it was provolone. Sometimes it would be there, sometimes it wasn't. As for breakfast, they do offer it, but I haven't done it in a while because the regional franchisee got rid of sausage because it couldn't be used in lunch hours, or something. The eggs got a pass though and shipped in frozen "discs" that were then thawed in the cooler. Same with the flatbread, which wasn't baked in-store, and thawed during the day.
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Re: Issues at Subway

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote:
Super S wrote:
storewanderer wrote:Maybe they can add more coffee products. Maybe they need to learn how to properly brew iced tea first.

They could also add more bakery oven products, like muffins. Well based on some posts here maybe they need to learn how to bake bread first...

Higher quality lunchmeat may be a wise step...

Also not to go into politics but with higher minimum wages coming in more and more places, which it appears is what a lot of Subways pay based on the (lack of) quality of the operation, and given that a lot of Subways don't make much money to begin with, I wonder how many more will be washed out of business in future years due to the low volume/low wage concept no longer being viable...
Subway was really pushing breakfast for a while. Not sure if they still even offer it. I had heard from a few friends that the offerings were not really that great, among other things, eggs, sausage, etc. were precooked then microwaved.

I have to agree that better quality offerings would help. One I already mentioned was the spotty availability of Swiss cheese.
For local stores, it was provolone. Sometimes it would be there, sometimes it wasn't. As for breakfast, they do offer it, but I haven't done it in a while because the regional franchisee got rid of sausage because it couldn't be used in lunch hours, or something. The eggs got a pass though and shipped in frozen "discs" that were then thawed in the cooler. Same with the flatbread, which wasn't baked in-store, and thawed during the day.
Most of this can be summed up as such:
There are two categories of franchises: strict and loose.

In a strict franchise (McDonald's, Burger King, and the like), owners are required to do everything by the book. Product offerings, presentation, advertising and merchandising are all done alike in each restaurant. Some minor variations are allowed, but rarely do they overshadow operations. Also, typically franchisees control a region or city, to stop minor variations around town.

In a loose franchise (Subway, Quiznos, Blimpie and others), owners are given guidelines to follow. Usually, the main products are the same, but there are variations across the board. Like the aforementioned Swiss and Provolone cheeses, franchisees are allowed to cater to the tastes they prefer. For example, Subway locations near me carry banana peppers. Some have Coke Zero while others don't. One restaurant on one side of town may have totally different offerings from a restaurant across town or maybe even down the street. Franchisees only control the location or locations they own; rarely do they control a region or city. While product quality is usually monitored, it too can vary by location.
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