Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

[storewanderer]

I've seen Turkey Hill at a lot of non-Kroger stores. Oddly the Smiths that are distributed from Utah lack the Turkey Hill Tea which I think all of the other divisions now carry (some a lot more flavors than others).

I think Harris Teeter is stuck in a private label agreement with TopCo for a while longer. I predict we will see Kroger brand items at Marianos/Pick N Save before Harris Teeter.

[Knight]

However, I don't think an organic expansion to Austin is the right idea nor do I think an organic expansion to Florida is the right idea. They have little to no shot at even 2nd place marketshare in either market anytime soon and it would take so much capital to get there.

Expansion into Florida is limited to organic expansion with Kroger Marketplace hypermarket stores, further expansion of Harris Teeter in Florida, and/or the acquisition of Winn-Dixie from Southeastern Grocers.

I do, however, believe they could take Florida if they tried. It may take a few years, which they may not be willing to invest. They may also have to do it with the Marketplace stores. I don't believe anyone is going to fully beat Publix with conventional supermarkets. There will have to be a niche. Kash & Karry/Sweetbay couldn't do it. Winn Dixie is content with being #2 (and I mean that both ways it sounds). The Harris Teeter purchase *may* be a way for them to test the waters with the single store.

Kroger and Publix are competing for supermarket dominance in the southeastern United States. Kroger has opportunities to expand and infill into Florida, northern Georgia, western North Carolina, upstate South Carolina, and southeastern Tennessee. Publix could realistically and easily expand into Mississippi, Memphis and western Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, and Arkansas.

[storewanderer]

I understand Harris Teeter previously had some stores in Jacksonville and pulled out. So that calls into question if that would be a logical expansion move to expand that brand into FL.

The Marketplace format would definitely bring something to the market that doesn't currently exist there, however. I still can't get past that I feel like Publix runs a high number of low volume stores in a lot of places in FL that also aren't really very large size stores. Maybe the customer in FL does not like giant size stores and this may also play a part in why Albertsons did not fare well in FL as its stores were typically 65,000 square feet and up. Those Marketplace stores need to do big volumes. I am wondering if the Marketplace format would even be viable in FL?

[veteran+]

I understand Harris Teeter previously had some stores in Jacksonville and pulled out. So that calls into question if that would be a logical expansion move to expand that brand into FL.

The Marketplace format would definitely bring something to the market that doesn't currently exist there, however. I still can't get past that I feel like Publix runs a high number of low volume stores in a lot of places in FL that also aren't really very large size stores. Maybe the customer in FL does not like giant size stores and this may also play a part in why Albertsons did not fare well in FL as its stores were typically 65,000 square feet and up. Those Marketplace stores need to do big volumes. I am wondering if the Marketplace format would even be viable in FL?

Winn Dixie has several stores in South Florida that is their interpretation of a "marketplace format" (in fact if memory serves, they are indeed called "Winn Dixie MarketPlace"). They are a mixed bag of results due to corporate mis-marketing and poor retail management (not because of store size).

There are very few low volume Publix stores of any size. Publix's average store volume attests to that.

There was a time that Publix was building stores that were larger than 65000sqft but to my knowledge they have discontinued doing that. Most of their stores are about 60000sqft. They are also building 29000sqft stores in select areas as fill ins (these stores are not low volume with rare exceptions).

Albertsons did very well with their very large stores in Florida until they went off their market plan. They lost their focus, suffered corporate incompetence and their good retail management left.

[veteran+]

I understand Harris Teeter previously had some stores in Jacksonville and pulled out. So that calls into question if that would be a logical expansion move to expand that brand into FL.

The Marketplace format would definitely bring something to the market that doesn't currently exist there, however. I still can't get past that I feel like Publix runs a high number of low volume stores in a lot of places in FL that also aren't really very large size stores. Maybe the customer in FL does not like giant size stores and this may also play a part in why Albertsons did not fare well in FL as its stores were typically 65,000 square feet and up. Those Marketplace stores need to do big volumes. I am wondering if the Marketplace format would even be viable in FL?

Winn Dixie has several stores in South Florida that is their interpretation of a "marketplace format" (in fact if memory serves, they are indeed called "Winn Dixie MarketPlace"). They are a mixed bag of results due to corporate mis-marketing and poor retail management (not because of store size).

There are very few low volume Publix stores of any size. Publix's average store volume attests to that.

There was a time that Publix was building stores that were larger than 65000sqft but to my knowledge they have discontinued doing that. Most of their stores are about 60000sqft. They are also building 29000sqft stores in select areas as fill ins (these stores are not low volume with rare exceptions).

Albertsons did very well with their very large stores in Florida until they went off their market plan. They lost their focus, suffered corporate incompetence and their good retail management left.

[wnetmacman]

Winn Dixie has several stores in South Florida that is their interpretation of a "marketplace format" (in fact if memory serves, they are indeed called "Winn Dixie MarketPlace"). They are a mixed bag of results due to corporate mis-marketing and poor retail management (not because of store size).

Winn Dixie actually started building their Marketplace stores in 1988. They were an evolution of their standard stores of the time, which didn't normally exceed 30,000sf. The first was in Baton Rouge, and it was a 'whopping' 48,000sf. They actually built this store throughout their operating areas, and as far west as the Texas division.

The main differences were space, separated Bakery-Delis, and Pharmacies. They were okay, but didn't really bring much new to the table that any of the competitors weren't already offering.

WD no longer calls them Marketplace, however, some signs still survive.

[pseudo3d]

The size of the Albertsons stores in Florida had nothing to do with their eventual market pull-out. Besides the core of Albertsons having a myriad of problems that permeated the entire chain, the Florida market was initially competitive (Publix, Kash n Karry, Winn-Dixie, Gooding's) where Kroger had even pulled out originally, and the fact that Albertsons never was even contiguous with their other Albertsons-branded store markets, even at the height of their dominance.

Kroger's Marketplace format won't work in Florida because of two reasons, number one, Kroger only places them in mature markets where they have a good market share, like Phoenix, or Houston, or Ohio, but also it's difficult because even if Kroger had a better foothold in the market, land in Florida is more expensive than areas elsewhere. It's the same reason why a 70k square foot supermarket would be considered massive in the West Coast but closer to being average in Texas, where 70k square foot supermarkets are more common and accepted.

[Knight]

Kroger
The scarcity of land in developed urban areas may prevent Kroger from moving in with its Marketplace hypermarket stores. Acquiring a present participant that has stores is one idea for expansion into Florida.

Kroger's Harris Teeter division has stores approximately 53,000 square feet in size. These stores are slightly larger than most new Publix stores. Harris Teeter is adding fuel centers to existing and new stores.

Publix
Publix operates a great quantity of quality high volume stores in varying sizes. Its 45m (45,000 square feet) and 49m (49,000 square feet) prototype stores are the most common being constructed and opened. Its 28m (28,000 square feet) prototype is still common with several under construction or planned in Florida, Alabama, and North Carolina.

Winn-Dixie
Winn-Dixie's Marketplace stores were intended to be higher end or upscale Winn-Dixie stores when initially conceived in 1984. The Marketplace decor was eventually implemented across most, if not all, Winn-Dixie stores, and left actual Marketplace stores as glorified Winn-Dixie stores.

[pseudo3d]

Kroger
The scarcity of land in developed urban areas may prevent Kroger from moving in with its Marketplace hypermarket stores. Acquiring a present participant that has stores is one idea for expansion into Florida.

Kroger's Harris Teeter division has stores approximately 53,000 square feet in size. These stores are slightly larger than most new Publix stores. Harris Teeter is adding fuel centers to existing and new stores.

Publix
Publix operates a great quantity of quality high volume stores in varying sizes. Its 45m (45,000 square feet) and 49m (49,000 square feet) prototype stores are the most common being constructed and opened. Its 28m (28,000 square feet) prototype is still common with several under construction or planned in Florida, Alabama, and North Carolina.

Winn-Dixie
Winn-Dixie's Marketplace stores were intended to be higher end or upscale Winn-Dixie stores when initially conceived in 1984. The Marketplace decor was eventually implemented across most, if not all, Winn-Dixie stores, and left actual Marketplace stores as glorified Winn-Dixie stores.

The situation in Florida is pretty rough, and Winn-Dixie is really the only realistic choice for acquisition for any bigger party that wants to expand. Publix has gone so scorched-earth in Florida that they'd operate stores across from the street from each other, and has such rigid square footage ideas that they've torn down '90s-era Albertsons stores for slightly smaller Publix stores. Kroger COULD spend a chunk for Southeastern Grocers and gut the operation as they Krogerize the entire operation, which would definitely give it absolute power from pretty much Los Angeles to Florida, but I doubt they'd want to, just like they aren't going to try to invade San Antonio and threaten H-E-B's dominance there.

[klkla]

Publix has gone so scorched-earth in Florida that they'd operate stores across from the street from each other, and has such rigid square footage ideas that they've torn down '90s-era Albertsons stores for slightly smaller Publix stores.

Wow. That's interesting. I didn't realize they had tore down such recently built Albertson's and then built totally new stores on the property. That seems really expensive. How many locations did they do this at? Which locations?