Kohl's Self Pickup

[ClownLoach]

I needed something in a hard to find size and found a Kohl's store that had what I needed, so I decided to try the store pick-up, which was actually this Self Pick-up option.

I don't like how a phone is basically REQUIRED for this (Other stores allow you to use a copy of an email with ID for pick-up)

The process was straightforward and easy, and I got what I needed, but I had two concerns.

First, nothing is locked up, and, because I am in the land of bag fees, nothing is bagged. It's just stuck in the bins. Not even any paperwork. Everything is out in the open, so anybody can look in and see what's in the bins. And somebody could easily stick something into their own bag.

Second, there is no employee in the area of the store monitoring this. (Is the person doing Amazon returns a Kohl's or Amazon employee?) So no way to verify if an inventory tag was deactivated, no bag, and no receipt, and one set of unlocked doors where they have removed registers. I see a potential for theft if they aren't careful. Maybe they have loss prevention watching, but I don't know.

This was at a store in the Portland area, which has seen a few recent store closures where theft was a factor. I don't see anything preventing a random person from walking up, snooping through the bins, grabbing something, and walking out the door. They need to step up the security a little bit.

Michaels has moved to the same dumb model, racks and racks of customer orders right next to the exit door unsupervised.

I don't understand why they can't do bags though. Everyone else still has bags, they just absorb the fee to comply with the law (or automatically charge it like Target does).

Lockers are very expensive, I was told they're roughly $10K for a large automated bank of them and more if they require a complicated installation, some stores embed them into a wall and such. Curbside pickup is extremely expensive and labor intensive, in the time a cashier could service 20-25 customers they get one average order processed. Stores are having to move labor from staffed cash registers to order pullers replaced by self checkouts, but the added shrink losses from the self checkouts are rendering what should have been a pretty even trade into a money losing exercise. The Wall Street people are noticeably not as critical of retailers who are reporting that these "free" online order services are anything but "free" and need to be curtailed. We will never be able to close Pandora's box though.

Of course the other flaw with this in the department store model is that they depend on impulse buys and add-on sales. The chances of either with curbside pickup is zero, so now Kohl's is hoping if they put these racks at the back or side of the store you'll see something else to buy and get it on your way out. Michaels placement at the exit door past the register seems pointless but maybe the one cashier that has to do returns and otherwise babysit self checkout stands can also watch for potential thieves looting that rack?

This labor conundrum of online ordering, coupled with the unreasonable expectations of the customer that someone should shop for them, set aside and stage their item for them, and load it into their car at absolutely no cost, is not sustainable. Seeing that we are going into peak season and Kohl's and Michaels have already slashed the service levels for it, while Sam's Club has begun adding a $4 service fee (unless they are a plus member), I expect this will be the last year of these retailers wasting their money on this unsustainable practice which is assuredly another reason for the non stop inflation price increases we keep seeing everywhere. Changes like the Kohl's and Michaels self service racks, or order fees, or minimum order amounts are going to keep expanding to cover all the money retailers are losing.

[storewanderer]

I needed something in a hard to find size and found a Kohl's store that had what I needed, so I decided to try the store pick-up, which was actually this Self Pick-up option.

I don't like how a phone is basically REQUIRED for this (Other stores allow you to use a copy of an email with ID for pick-up)

The process was straightforward and easy, and I got what I needed, but I had two concerns.

First, nothing is locked up, and, because I am in the land of bag fees, nothing is bagged. It's just stuck in the bins. Not even any paperwork. Everything is out in the open, so anybody can look in and see what's in the bins. And somebody could easily stick something into their own bag.

Second, there is no employee in the area of the store monitoring this. (Is the person doing Amazon returns a Kohl's or Amazon employee?) So no way to verify if an inventory tag was deactivated, no bag, and no receipt, and one set of unlocked doors where they have removed registers. I see a potential for theft if they aren't careful. Maybe they have loss prevention watching, but I don't know.

This was at a store in the Portland area, which has seen a few recent store closures where theft was a factor. I don't see anything preventing a random person from walking up, snooping through the bins, grabbing something, and walking out the door. They need to step up the security a little bit.

Was this in a corner of the store pretty far from the door? At the locations in my area this is far from the door but it is completely unmonitored and unsecure. Everything is in bags (or boxes).

I am surprised this program has lasted as long as it has- all of the concerns you raise are 100% valid.

[storewanderer]

Michaels has moved to the same dumb model, racks and racks of customer orders right next to the exit door unsupervised.

I don't understand why they can't do bags though. Everyone else still has bags, they just absorb the fee to comply with the law (or automatically charge it like Target does).

Lockers are very expensive, I was told they're roughly $10K for a large automated bank of them and more if they require a complicated installation, some stores embed them into a wall and such. Curbside pickup is extremely expensive and labor intensive, in the time a cashier could service 20-25 customers they get one average order processed.

This labor conundrum of online ordering, coupled with the unreasonable expectations of the customer that someone should shop for them, set aside and stage their item for them, and load it into their car at absolutely no cost, is not sustainable. Seeing that we are going into peak season and Kohl's and Michaels have already slashed the service levels for it, while Sam's Club has begun adding a $4 service fee (unless they are a plus member), I expect this will be the last year of these retailers wasting their money on this unsustainable practice which is assuredly another reason for the non stop inflation price increases we keep seeing everywhere. Changes like the Kohl's and Michaels self service racks, or order fees, or minimum order amounts are going to keep expanding to cover all the money retailers are losing.

Those racks won't last at Michael's. Office Depot tried racks like that by the door and those got moved behind the copy counter real fast long ago.

Around Reno even some of the fast food places who tried self serve pick up racks had to move them behind the counter due to food theft (Chickfila, Panda Express). Popeyes and KFC still have them self serve. Wendys has racks but doesn't use them (they are there to pass the inspection when the franchise consultant and regional manager come around with a checklist). One Chickfila kept self serve racks and has these little cheap Dollar Store looking security cameras on the shelves at eye level, I was told by an employee they don't even work but are there to deter theft.

I think Wal Mart will continue its Pickup business. That business has driven a lot of customers to Wal Mart who never shopped there before and otherwise wouldn't shop there. They are an example of a retailer who used that business to bring in new customers. For businesses like Target who converted existing customers to pick up customers as you point out it is a lose-lose due to the labor cost. Sam's Club- they are using this Pickup as a way to get people to buy those Plus memberships.

[ClownLoach]

Michaels has moved to the same dumb model, racks and racks of customer orders right next to the exit door unsupervised.

I don't understand why they can't do bags though. Everyone else still has bags, they just absorb the fee to comply with the law (or automatically charge it like Target does).

Lockers are very expensive, I was told they're roughly $10K for a large automated bank of them and more if they require a complicated installation, some stores embed them into a wall and such. Curbside pickup is extremely expensive and labor intensive, in the time a cashier could service 20-25 customers they get one average order processed.

This labor conundrum of online ordering, coupled with the unreasonable expectations of the customer that someone should shop for them, set aside and stage their item for them, and load it into their car at absolutely no cost, is not sustainable. Seeing that we are going into peak season and Kohl's and Michaels have already slashed the service levels for it, while Sam's Club has begun adding a $4 service fee (unless they are a plus member), I expect this will be the last year of these retailers wasting their money on this unsustainable practice which is assuredly another reason for the non stop inflation price increases we keep seeing everywhere. Changes like the Kohl's and Michaels self service racks, or order fees, or minimum order amounts are going to keep expanding to cover all the money retailers are losing.

Those racks won't last at Michael's. Office Depot tried racks like that by the door and those got moved behind the copy counter real fast long ago.

Around Reno even some of the fast food places who tried self serve pick up racks had to move them behind the counter due to food theft (Chickfila, Panda Express). Popeyes and KFC still have them self serve. Wendys has racks but doesn't use them (they are there to pass the inspection when the franchise consultant and regional manager come around with a checklist). One Chickfila kept self serve racks and has these little cheap Dollar Store looking security cameras on the shelves at eye level, I was told by an employee they don't even work but are there to deter theft.

I think Wal Mart will continue its Pickup business. That business has driven a lot of customers to Wal Mart who never shopped there before and otherwise wouldn't shop there. They are an example of a retailer who used that business to bring in new customers. For businesses like Target who converted existing customers to pick up customers as you point out it is a lose-lose due to the labor cost. Sam's Club- they are using this Pickup as a way to get people to buy those Plus memberships.

The Kohl's model is all dependent on the store layout, at the store closest to me the pickup is right next to a side exit. Kohl's has tried several times to close that door off but then the Fire Department forces them to reopen it for safety purposes as it is required to be kept open and unlocked. At least there is a minimal degree of security with the forced app entry of a code to learn which bag is yours; I've heard that there is a lot of fraud where people claim they didn't get their order and request a chargeback.

The Michaels system is basically the same as Kohl's but they just put the names on the bags and you look for yours. Problem with Michaels is there really isn't a place for them to move the racks if you look at their typical front end and small cramped layout. They seem to be trying to move to a less-than-zero payroll model of all self checkout; supposedly they'll be 100% self checkout chainwide by Spring which sounds like a disaster in the making since they have so many SKUs that look alike but have subtle differences, like paper, paint brushes, and beads. One of the problems with self checkout is that customers don't understand that they can't just scan one item five times because they're all the same price. I can see that problem being much worse for a store like Michaels. They are probably another retailer like Target that has not actually grown any new sales revenue with store pickup but rather just converted existing customers at a high labor cost so now they have to resort to self checkout and self serve pickup counters. They seemed to be doing very well, which caused them to get a unsolicited buyout from Apollo. It does not look like they have fared well under private ownership.

I agree Walmart is capturing new customers because their model seems to work well all-around, they figured out the easiest and best way is to just do curbside pickup since their entrances and exits are too congested. Sam's Club definitely hooked a lot of new customers by offering curbside pickup, which Costco claims they are never going to do, and it does become a good benefit for the upsell Plus membership. They are at the time of the year where they're doing a lot of membership promotions again, but the curbside and free shipping benefits appear to be getting a lot of people to upgrade to Plus and then become "sticky" versus the problems of the past where they had issues getting consistent full price renewals. I am still amazed at the fact that they've grown Sam's Club by nearly 50% since 2019 when they were collapsing into irrelevance, that is not a COVID adjusted figure and has to be the single best performance in all of retail.

Restaurants need to move to a different model without these racks. The answer is to use the model where the food is made once you arrive (or a geolocating function on the app says you're close by). Then the online order customer waits to the side for their order to be called just like an in store order. They need to add a barcode or something like that for the employees to scan before they give the customer their food to ensure they are not getting robbed. The "honor system" model is not sustainable, and I worry about tampering as well - I've seen too many cases where a rude, impatient customer tries to grab a tray of food that they incorrectly assumed is theirs, and the same thing happens with the bags as the same customers negligently try to look inside instead of read the damned name on the bag.

I don't expect pickup services to disappear anywhere but I do expect to see the aforementioned reductions in service throughout the industry. I could easily see Walmart adding the same $4 surcharges for non Walmart+ members. One idea that may be smart would be for a combined Sam's Club Plus/Walmart+ membership card.

I also expect to see pickup services move more towards a "pick it up tomorrow morning after 9am" model to cut costs. There are a ton of applications that are designed for batching orders and eliminating 90% of the labor. Target and Walmart are already using these; Walmart encourages next day pickup so they can have the 4am personal shopper crew pull the order. Both use specialized multi tier carts with many bins and dividers; their device software will tell them to go to aisle 1 and put a can of beans in bin A, a can of corn in bin B, and a can of olives in bin D. Then aisle 2 pick a bag of sugar for bin A, a container of salt for bin B, and marshmallows for bin H. It routes them for minimal footsteps like Waze for the store aisles. When they finish walking through one pass of the store they have pulled a couple dozen orders which are already grouped together on the cart. Much more productive than the current model most retailers use of a device saying "ClownLoach has placed an order for a head of lettuce, a 12 pack of Coke Zero, and Bounty Paper Towels" then someone grabs a cart and runs around to those locations for my one order.

[Romr123]

I have been using Target online for a couple years strictly because they have good prices on one thing I buy routinely (Silk organic unsweetened soy milk). 50 cents to $2 less than anyone else. I often have orders of 2 half gallons of that (relatively underpriced) milk, a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread, 5 bananas and whatever is on the Target Circle coupon. That may be on a good day a $15 order. Yet, if they started charging a pick/pack fee I'd be outta there so fast.

[Super S]

I needed something in a hard to find size and found a Kohl's store that had what I needed, so I decided to try the store pick-up, which was actually this Self Pick-up option.

I don't like how a phone is basically REQUIRED for this (Other stores allow you to use a copy of an email with ID for pick-up)

The process was straightforward and easy, and I got what I needed, but I had two concerns.

First, nothing is locked up, and, because I am in the land of bag fees, nothing is bagged. It's just stuck in the bins. Not even any paperwork. Everything is out in the open, so anybody can look in and see what's in the bins. And somebody could easily stick something into their own bag.

Second, there is no employee in the area of the store monitoring this. (Is the person doing Amazon returns a Kohl's or Amazon employee?) So no way to verify if an inventory tag was deactivated, no bag, and no receipt, and one set of unlocked doors where they have removed registers. I see a potential for theft if they aren't careful. Maybe they have loss prevention watching, but I don't know.

This was at a store in the Portland area, which has seen a few recent store closures where theft was a factor. I don't see anything preventing a random person from walking up, snooping through the bins, grabbing something, and walking out the door. They need to step up the security a little bit.

Was this in a corner of the store pretty far from the door? At the locations in my area this is far from the door but it is completely unmonitored and unsecure. Everything is in bags (or boxes).

I am surprised this program has lasted as long as it has- all of the concerns you raise are 100% valid.

The self-pickup area is next to the Amazon return area, in a back corner of the store. There was a person at the Amazon area, but I am not clear if that person is an Amazon employee or a Kohl's employee as I don't know a lot about that operation.

It kinda reminded me of how some stores such as Costco and Target, which offered film developing years ago, placed developed pictures out in the open for pick-up. My parents used to use Target until somebody else accidentally took their set of pictures one time by mistake.
and did not bother to bring them back after a couple months of checking back with the store.

[ClownLoach]

I needed something in a hard to find size and found a Kohl's store that had what I needed, so I decided to try the store pick-up, which was actually this Self Pick-up option.

I don't like how a phone is basically REQUIRED for this (Other stores allow you to use a copy of an email with ID for pick-up)

The process was straightforward and easy, and I got what I needed, but I had two concerns.

First, nothing is locked up, and, because I am in the land of bag fees, nothing is bagged. It's just stuck in the bins. Not even any paperwork. Everything is out in the open, so anybody can look in and see what's in the bins. And somebody could easily stick something into their own bag.

Second, there is no employee in the area of the store monitoring this. (Is the person doing Amazon returns a Kohl's or Amazon employee?) So no way to verify if an inventory tag was deactivated, no bag, and no receipt, and one set of unlocked doors where they have removed registers. I see a potential for theft if they aren't careful. Maybe they have loss prevention watching, but I don't know.

This was at a store in the Portland area, which has seen a few recent store closures where theft was a factor. I don't see anything preventing a random person from walking up, snooping through the bins, grabbing something, and walking out the door. They need to step up the security a little bit.

Was this in a corner of the store pretty far from the door? At the locations in my area this is far from the door but it is completely unmonitored and unsecure. Everything is in bags (or boxes).

I am surprised this program has lasted as long as it has- all of the concerns you raise are 100% valid.

The self-pickup area is next to the Amazon return area, in a back corner of the store. There was a person at the Amazon area, but I am not clear if that person is an Amazon employee or a Kohl's employee as I don't know a lot about that operation.

It kinda reminded me of how some stores such as Costco and Target, which offered film developing years ago, placed developed pictures out in the open for pick-up. My parents used to use Target until somebody else accidentally took their set of pictures one time by mistake.
and did not bother to bring them back after a couple months of checking back with the store.

The stores I've seen have it across the racetrack from the service desk, and there are display tables and fixtures that block the view from that area. No way anything is actually being supervised and it's all in bags next to the side exit door. Anyone could easily go in and pretend to go through the motions with their phone after scoping out the area looking for higher ticket items in the bags. I certainly hope that they don't dispute when customers arrive and discover their items are missing because it must happen often.

Worse I'm pretty sure the entire idea of the app entry of some magical code is how they have the customer acknowledge receipt of their items thus removing the ability to cancel, I've heard of scams where the customer marks the order for cancelation the second they receive the items. This is why for example Best Buy puts a four digit code on the app screen, the employee enters that into their handheld and that marks the order "received by customer" in their system and once they get their confirmation on their device then they deposit the item into your trunk or wherever you asked them to load it.

The theft from this self service stuff must be worse than self checkout losses. I get that it costs about $10K for a bank of automated lockers, but how long will it take for these stores to accumulate $10K in shrink from this open system? Clearly pickup is not going to go away and there isn't likely going to be some other idea nobody's thought of that surpasses the lockers that have become the industry standard, so these companies should not be afraid to make the lowly $10K per store purchase they can probably write off over many years if not decades.

[storewanderer]

The Kohl's code for pick up is whatever the store number is.

[ClownLoach]

The Kohl's code for pick up is whatever the store number is.

Pretty dumb. But I'm sure the way they're processing the charges is the customer enters the code on the Kohl's website or app, then they get the bin location for their order and it is considered "picked up" with a finalized charge at that moment. So if the bin is empty and the items had been stolen now the charge is finalized and thus harder to get a chargeback if the store is less than cooperative; their automatic response to chargeback requests will be "customer acknowledged receipt at 12:47pm on XX/XX" and the matter will wind up having to be escalated every time. The customer will wind up getting their money back after going through hoops, and they'll never shop Kohl's again for the frustrating experience. How smart is this new program? What exactly are they saving versus staffing a pickup counter?

Again unfortunately I don't want to make a tutorial but there is a problem now where people are scamming the retailers by figuring out ways to cancel the order (which is usually an automatic process and irreversible in most order management software) at the same time it's being placed in their car. I know of a retailer that was getting hit multiple times each day at each location, so you're talking about tens of thousands of dollars in loss each day across the chain.