🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: January 11th, 2024, 10:50 pm

Just looking at their own store locator, yes there are plenty of holes in it. There are gaps all along I-15 all the way through Temecula (where Albertsons has a 2 to 1 store ratio in the entire valley for example). Are there some areas where there's concentration? Sure. But there are plenty of spots where they could add a store and it would be of benefit from a competitive standpoint. They also have a lot of older stores that are not very competitive due to limited assortment and offerings which could be upgraded through store acquisitions of divestitures, and they are good about making their sites available to others instead of sitting and paying dead rent.

Menifee is odd. Am I correct there is only one ACI store (Vons in Sun City)? So everyone decided to ignore a city that's growing double digits annually and is up in population 30% since January 1, 2020... Except Stater. The fact they're going to dominate that little pocket is the fault of ACI and KR who don't invest in California anymore. But there's definitely a need, since the lack of grocery stores there drove the Menifee SuperTarget to be the #1 unit in the state and the #5 Target in the entire country...

For example Stater has big opportunities. One store in Temecula? Two stores in Murrieta? (both cities larger than Menifee). While Albertsons-Vons has 8 in the same area, which will be 10 if they merge with Kroger? 10 to 3 and you don't think it would be better if that was say 8 to 5 or 7 to 6?

There used to be a nicer Albertsons somewhere around there too (same side of the freeway as the very high end Ralphs in Menifee) which was a very nice large store, Jewel interior as I recall. Access into it was a little strange but I don't think that was a deal breaker. But for some reason it was closed (I think Supervalu did that). It appeared to have traffic so I don't know why it closed. I think it converted to some non-grocery use.


I cannot emphasize enough that Menifee has that top shelf Ralphs which excels at all aspects of the grocery business especially presentation, freshness, and service. The Vons only recently was remodeled out of the late 90's Safeway interior but if you could get past the poor condition it actually was an acceptable Vons (being serious about this part). I don't know what the issue with grocery stores in that pocket is but there is some kind of issue.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

storewanderer wrote: January 12th, 2024, 12:12 am
There used to be a nicer Albertsons somewhere around there too (same side of the freeway as the very high end Ralphs in Menifee) which was a very nice large store, Jewel interior as I recall. Access into it was a little strange but I don't think that was a deal breaker. But for some reason it was closed (I think Supervalu did that). It appeared to have traffic so I don't know why it closed. I think it converted to some non-grocery use.


I cannot emphasize enough that Menifee has that top shelf Ralphs which excels at all aspects of the grocery business especially presentation, freshness, and service. The Vons only recently was remodeled out of the late 90's Safeway interior but if you could get past the poor condition it actually was an acceptable Vons (being serious about this part). I don't know what the issue with grocery stores in that pocket is but there is some kind of issue.
You’re thinking of the Albertsons off I-215/Scott Road in Murrieta, that one is still open. That one is a 2005 build. Now with Colorful Lifestyle: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Alber ... &entry=ttu

The Albertsons that Supervalu closed is in Menifee, off Newport Road (west of I-215). That one is a 1997 build, it had the Blue & Green Awnings interior.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by storewanderer »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: January 12th, 2024, 12:29 am
You’re thinking of the Albertsons off I-215/Scott Road in Murrieta, that one is still open. That one is a 2005 build. Now with Colorful Lifestyle: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Alber ... &entry=ttu

The Albertsons that Supervalu closed is in Menifee, off Newport Road (west of I-215). That one is a 1997 build, it had the Blue & Green Awnings interior.
Yes, 28047 Scott is definitely the store I'm thinking of. I'm glad to see it is still open.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by norcalriteaidclerk »

https://www.reuters.com/legal/washingto ... 024-01-11/

If the track record involving prior mergers involving Albertsons is of any indication(especially in respect to divestitures that backfired on acquiring entities), I don't buy that assertion from that unnamed aci executive one bit.More than anything,those past mergers have enabled those non-union competitors.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by storewanderer »

norcalriteaidclerk wrote: January 12th, 2024, 5:42 pm https://www.reuters.com/legal/washingto ... 024-01-11/

If the track record involving prior mergers involving Albertsons is of any indication(especially in respect to divestitures that backfired on acquiring entities), I don't buy that assertion from that unnamed aci executive one bit.More than anything,those past mergers have enabled those non-union competitors.
The best thing Albertsons and Kroger can do is continue to compete fiercely, independently, for the consumer's dollar. This way the consumer will be compelled in multiple different ways to shop at Albertsons or Kroger instead of Amazon or Wal Mart. Merge the two together and now there is only a single entity trying to lure the customer from Amazon or Wal Mart. I think two entities with different/distinct competitive ideas/promotional models are more effective at luring different customers than a single entity will be.

EVERY divest activity by Albertsons has resulted in losses of jobs due to failure of the parties buying stores:

Buttrey: stores in MT/WY divested to Smiths under Fred Meyer- many stores closed- some like Cheyenne got mixed up in the Kroger/Fred Meyer merger and divested again and then failed- but the ones that stayed as Smiths into the Kroger merger it took a few years in some cases but they closed.
Lucky: this got to be a mess real fast; stores divested to Certified Grocers, many didn't last six months. Stores divested to Ralphs and Raleys struggled and closures trickled before eventual market exits occurred. The block of stores divested to Stater have been one bright spot.
Haggen: complete fiasco
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

storewanderer wrote: January 12th, 2024, 11:00 pm
EVERY divest activity by Albertsons has resulted in losses of jobs due to failure of the parties buying stores:

Buttrey: stores in MT/WY divested to Smiths under Fred Meyer- many stores closed- some like Cheyenne got mixed up in the Kroger/Fred Meyer merger and divested again and then failed- but the ones that stayed as Smiths into the Kroger merger it took a few years in some cases but they closed.
Lucky: this got to be a mess real fast; stores divested to Certified Grocers, many didn't last six months. Stores divested to Ralphs and Raleys struggled and closures trickled before eventual market exits occurred. The block of stores divested to Stater have been one bright spot.
Haggen: complete fiasco
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Minyard in North Texas (which before the Albertsons/Safeway merger, was already being slaughtered by Walmart and Kroger). After buying 10 or so Albertsons/Tom Thumb stores, Minyard was put out of business by 2016. I think Albertsons bought back a store or two from them.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

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retailfanmitchell019 wrote: January 12th, 2024, 11:44 pm
storewanderer wrote: January 12th, 2024, 11:00 pm
EVERY divest activity by Albertsons has resulted in losses of jobs due to failure of the parties buying stores:

Buttrey: stores in MT/WY divested to Smiths under Fred Meyer- many stores closed- some like Cheyenne got mixed up in the Kroger/Fred Meyer merger and divested again and then failed- but the ones that stayed as Smiths into the Kroger merger it took a few years in some cases but they closed.
Lucky: this got to be a mess real fast; stores divested to Certified Grocers, many didn't last six months. Stores divested to Ralphs and Raleys struggled and closures trickled before eventual market exits occurred. The block of stores divested to Stater have been one bright spot.
Haggen: complete fiasco
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Minyard in North Texas (which before the Albertsons/Safeway merger, was already being slaughtered by Walmart and Kroger). After buying 10 or so Albertsons/Tom Thumb stores, Minyard was put out of business by 2016. I think Albertsons bought back a store or two from them.
I sort of put Minyard in the same bucket as Haggen but I guess they did keep their stores open a bit longer than Haggen. I think AWG sponsored Minyard in that purchase somehow. So the failure of those stores wasn't just on Minyard but also on AWG. AWG could have tried Homeland instead (would have probably been the same result).

Ridleys has had mixed results with their divests too. They bought a couple stores from Supervalu in Provo, UT (I think it was Provo) that Associated didn't take and they kept them open for a number of years, they may still operate Ace at one of them, tried quite a few different things, but ultimately closed. Then they got some WY stores in the Albertsons/Safeway merger and as I recall only closed one (but kept a liquor store open at the store they closed), and the one they closed was previously a poorly performing non-Lifestyle Safeway.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: January 11th, 2024, 6:12 pm
pseudo3d wrote: January 11th, 2024, 7:58 am If they're still in talks with the FTC and they're not talking about closing it out soon then they may close it out within the week. If they released another list of 200 stores to divest to C&S I'd be much less optimistic.

C&S passing on the second set makes me think that should the merger fall through they won't buy Albertsons (they would probably deal with some sort of divestments themselves).

With Amazon Fresh crumbling and Amazon still on the hook to buying products from SpartanNash I could see some arrangement of some sort of unholy Albertsons/SpartanNash merger that Amazon holds a stake in.
I am curious what you are referring to about C&S passing on the second set?

Based on the initial C&S purchase agreement it appeared they had already agreed to purchase the second set of stores?
Right, I believe that should there be a second set, C&S has either obligated or gets first dibs at those stores. If it was moving along swimmingly the second divestment list would be out to get rubber-stamped.

If C&S had kept the stores it picked up over the years--kept Grand Union (or expanded Grand Union 2.0), kept the Nell's it purchased in York PA (it closed in 2022), kept Bruno's and its sister stores it picked up in the bankruptcy, and so forth, I'd be much more willing to give it a chance.

They bought some stores as Ahold Delhaize spun off BI-LO/Bruno's as BI-LO Holdings (later known as Southeastern Grocers) and dumped those. They bought Bruno's remaining stores in 2009 as it declared bankruptcy and dumped those a few years later (selling to a group who rebranded them as Belle Foods before going out of business for good). The only surprising thing is that Grand Union 2.0 hasn't been dumped yet.
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

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pseudo3d wrote: January 13th, 2024, 4:13 pm
storewanderer wrote: January 11th, 2024, 6:12 pm
pseudo3d wrote: January 11th, 2024, 7:58 am If they're still in talks with the FTC and they're not talking about closing it out soon then they may close it out within the week. If they released another list of 200 stores to divest to C&S I'd be much less optimistic.

C&S passing on the second set makes me think that should the merger fall through they won't buy Albertsons (they would probably deal with some sort of divestments themselves).

With Amazon Fresh crumbling and Amazon still on the hook to buying products from SpartanNash I could see some arrangement of some sort of unholy Albertsons/SpartanNash merger that Amazon holds a stake in.
I am curious what you are referring to about C&S passing on the second set?

Based on the initial C&S purchase agreement it appeared they had already agreed to purchase the second set of stores?
Right, I believe that should there be a second set, C&S has either obligated or gets first dibs at those stores. If it was moving along swimmingly the second divestment list would be out to get rubber-stamped.

If C&S had kept the stores it picked up over the years--kept Grand Union (or expanded Grand Union 2.0), kept the Nell's it purchased in York PA (it closed in 2022), kept Bruno's and its sister stores it picked up in the bankruptcy, and so forth, I'd be much more willing to give it a chance.

They bought some stores as Ahold Delhaize spun off BI-LO/Bruno's as BI-LO Holdings (later known as Southeastern Grocers) and dumped those. They bought Bruno's remaining stores in 2009 as it declared bankruptcy and dumped those a few years later (selling to a group who rebranded them as Belle Foods before going out of business for good). The only surprising thing is that Grand Union 2.0 hasn't been dumped yet.
Not dumping Grand Union 2.0 is a fluke and that fluke has enabled they to say they operate stores (plus those few WI Piggly Wiggly units they run as corporate stores).

Meanwhile no sign of that WA lawsuit that was rumored to be hitting by now...
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Re: 🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: National Impact

Post by Romr123 »

Don't think C&S has any position in the Wisconsin Piggly Wiggly stores except to license the name...they seem to be a solid #2 in the state (after Kroger/Pick & Save) and were perfectly plausible suburban 40k full-line stores when I was last in some a couple years ago...no comparison to rural smelly creaky 20k Southern Piggly Wiggly that C&S is more involved with.
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