CA to ban disposable cups at restaurants for eat in

[reymann]

Our local BK franchise in fresno have unplugged the freestyle machines and everyone has to ask an employe for soda from the drive-thru fountain and sometimes use canned soda as back up when they are low on mix.

[Alpha8472]

A local Burger King near me is closed for a total remodel. It looks almost finished and I am eager to see what soda fountains it will have. I wonder if Burger King will continue with self serve soda machines or do what McDonald's is doing with employee operated soda machines.

Also this will be the first Burger King that has dual drive thru lanes. I have only seen dual drive thru at new McDonald's in my area.

[J-Man]

Farmer Boys also uses washable plates and bowls for a lot of its items (breakfast platters, salads, chili) as well as metal utensils. And they use paper cups--not plastic.

[Alpha8472]

Does Costco still use paper cups and paper straws? How will that work with Costco? There would be a ton of reusable cups to wash.

[storewanderer]

Does Costco still use paper cups and paper straws? How will that work with Costco? There would be a ton of reusable cups to wash.

Many CA Costco do not have indoor dining. Maybe they will just remove the tables.

[storewanderer]

Farmer Boys also uses washable plates and bowls for a lot of its items (breakfast platters, salads, chili) as well as metal utensils. And they use paper cups--not plastic.

Farmer Boys has done that basically forever for dine in, given the nature of what they are serving, especially the full breakfast, it makes a lot of sense for them. Dishwashing equipment is present in their units and it is part of their labor allocation.

I've received plastic cups for milkshakes and their largest size drink though.

McDonalds and Wendys didn't have plastic cups much until about 2021-2022 range. They similar to Farmer Boys may have used a plastic cup for their largest size drink sometimes (McDonalds had actually gone back to paper for large in recent years) and in the case of McDonalds a plastic cup for McCafe (again like Farmer Boys on shakes) but Wendys was all paper even for frosty.

[Alpha8472]

I remember years ago when Costco had stand up tables at the food court. There were no chairs. Was that in the 80s or 90s?

[HCal]

Washing cups/plates/ etc requires hot water, requiring more energy use, detergent which is a pollutant, and creates waste water. More pollution and energy use than a paper cup, which comes from a tree that is grown to make paper or even a foam cup.

Do you have a source for this? From what I have seen, the manufacturing process uses far more water and energy than washing.

Of course the manufacturing may be taking place in China or another country where water and energy are cheaper, but then you have to consider the energy needed for transportation.

[storewanderer]

Washing cups/plates/ etc requires hot water, requiring more energy use, detergent which is a pollutant, and creates waste water. More pollution and energy use than a paper cup, which comes from a tree that is grown to make paper or even a foam cup.

Do you have a source for this? From what I have seen, the manufacturing process uses far more water and energy than washing.

Of course the manufacturing may be taking place in China or another country where water and energy are cheaper, but then you have to consider the energy needed for transportation.

The manufacturing for these reusable items is what takes place in China. The disposable cups are virtually ALL made in the US. Paper, plastic, or foam- basically all made in the US.

Again the industry has figured out what is most efficient/lowest cost for them. Well, this plastic cup thing has sort of screwed that up to some extent but they wouldn't have switched from paper in the first place had paper costs not spiked thanks to those plastic bag bans (the timing of when MCD/WEN switched from paper cups to plastic cups for all cold beverages nationwide in the US was right in line with the NY plastic bag ban which mandated paper bags there- no super thick plastic ones allowed- and major supply chain issues with paper bags).

If it was lower cost to have reusable cups/plates the business does that. For certain food types it makes sense- as noted above Farmer Boys already serves dine in on plates and serves coffee in a glass mug (pretty sure soda is always in a disposable cup though); Boston Market used to do the same thing; pizza chains have typically done the same thing.

Limited service hotels are another good example (which this CA law does not target- why not- why do these CA politicians keep attacking specifically the fast food industry)... they serve that "free continental breakfast" on all disposable plates. The Comfort Inn/Hampton Inn/Holiday Inn Express type places. They have small rooms for employees to heat the food up and do not even have the facilities or space to do full dish washing for the hundreds of meals customers are getting each morning. In the US. In other countries... those chains often use actual glass etc. and the properties are built with the dish washing facilities. Lower labor cost in those other countries and perhaps higher cost for the disposables. Again it is all about doing what is most efficient in the given scenario. There is no one size fits all solution as the CA politicians attempt to propose banning all disposable cups for dine in.

But don't worry. Paper bags which also pretty much all used to be made in the US are now being imported heavily too. So perhaps the environmental concerns of how paper bags take like 20x the water of a plastic bag and way more energy to make than a plastic bag no longer matter if places like China do the dirty manufacturing work and just trash their environment?

I received a paper bag at CVS last week- new one there- Made in India. Haven't seen that before. Occasionally get paper bags Made in China from Raleys (they are super odd, feel very odd too) and Amazon Fresh has those odd paper bags too. Haven't seen the Made in Vietman paper bags at Wal Mart in a while, or any paper bags for that matter there.

[storewanderer]

Back to the water on paper vs. plastic thing:

Paper bag - basically each paper bag takes 1 gallon of water to make

Plastic bag - each plastic bag takes 0.038 gallons of water to make.
https://www.packaging-gateway.com/featu ... aper-bags/

So my 20x wasn't quite right, but close.

I am also not sure the same can be said for paper vs. plastic cup. My suspicion is the (thicker) plastic cup takes more water so the gap is smaller.

The industry will always figure out what is cheapest/most efficient. If it was about utility everything would be foam- the ultimate insulator, doesn't sweat, doesn't leak, securely closes shut. Hot, cold, it is all kept great with foam. But it is terrible for the environment and higher cost than both paper and plastic alternatives. Also "fatter" so it is more costly to transport. So outside specific businesses (mostly ones selling liquidy-food) and humid states you don't see much foam anymore.