Retail Watchers

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 9th, 2021, 5:33 pm This merger sounds very similar to the one between the parent companies of Stop & Shop and Hannaford a couple years back.

One of the divestments of the Ahold/Delhaize merger was a Stop & Shop in Gardner, MA. Tops ended up taking it over. They only lasted a year. It was so far out of Tops' operational area that it was seemingly predestined to fail.
https://www.thegardnernews.com/article/ ... /311109558

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 9th, 2021, 5:33 pm Cooperstown (where Tops is a former P&C Foods and PC took over what was (I believe) a Great American.

If they were forced to sell one, it would make sense to keep the the Tops in Cooperstown, not only by size/age but as that brand is more common in those areas.

You are correct on both counts about the lineage of the Tops and Price Chopper locations in Cooperstown. As far as divesture is concerned, that's going to be a tough call-the Price Chopper is within village limits and the Tops is a few miles out of town in a small shopping plaza in a more rural setting. Don't know how this will go but I could see both of them staying open under their current banners. At first I thought about the possibly of the Tops going to Hannaford since they have a store in Oneonta but I think it would be too small for them.

Oh, and as an aside, that closed Price Chopper in Troy you mentioned in another post I believe was originally a Food Fair way back when.

cathandler wrote: ↑February 9th, 2021, 7:16 pm

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 9th, 2021, 5:33 pm This merger sounds very similar to the one between the parent companies of Stop & Shop and Hannaford a couple years back.

One of the divestments of the Ahold/Delhaize merger was a Stop & Shop in Gardner, MA. Tops ended up taking it over. They only lasted a year. It was so far out of Tops' operational area that it was seemingly predestined to fail.
https://www.thegardnernews.com/article/ ... /311109558

Yeah, that one seemed kind of odd when a few others in MA went to someone like Big Y (who is already at least in closer by areas). Then again, the A&P on Nantucket that wound up for a time as part of GU Markets was odd, too. Maybe just something in MA?

TW-Upstate NY wrote: ↑February 10th, 2021, 8:46 am

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 9th, 2021, 5:33 pm Cooperstown (where Tops is a former P&C Foods and PC took over what was (I believe) a Great American.

If they were forced to sell one, it would make sense to keep the the Tops in Cooperstown, not only by size/age but as that brand is more common in those areas.

You are correct on both counts about the lineage of the Tops and Price Chopper locations in Cooperstown. As far as divesture is concerned, that's going to be a tough call-the Price Chopper is within village limits and the Tops is a few miles out of town in a small shopping plaza in a more rural setting. Don't know how this will go but I could see both of them staying open under their current banners. At first I thought about the possibly of the Tops going to Hannaford since they have a store in Oneonta but I think it would be too small for them.

Oh, and as an aside, that closed Price Chopper in Troy you mentioned in another post I believe was originally a Food Fair way back when.

I was thinking more on how similar situations were required with Hannaford/Stop & Shop (they had stores in neighboring towns in Dutchess County separated by at least a few miles where one was sold off, and similar to this there were no other stores for at least 15 miles around). Not sure how big Tops is, but Hannaford can deal with smaller stores (they have taken over at least a couple that were formerly independents that they supplied which are definitely smaller than their own builds or others they got from other chains), and where that is set up they could possibly add on if needed?

That would make sense on the PC location (Lansingburgh) - I've seen a picture somewhere that where the Hannaford sits today (which is a block or so up) was JM Fields and the two were often connected, but hadn't heard that the grocery was there.

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 9th, 2021, 5:33 pm Not sure how big Tops is, but Hannaford can deal with smaller stores (they have taken over at least a couple that were formerly independents that they supplied which are definitely smaller than their own builds or others they got from other chains), and where that is set up they could possibly add on if needed?

With the Tops, there is a vacant lot on the side of the building which is now employee parking where they could build out if they did indeed take this location. It's not a bad store overall but the one thing I've noticed about it is that the aisles are very narrow vs. most other stores. That must've been a P+C thing because they had a store closer to home (in Gloversville) that had the very same thing and the funny thing about that is they kept those aisles small even after they expanded the building. I guess Tops just decided to stick with it. Also this store had a pharmacy when P+C had it but they closed it long before they left and Tops never reopened it-just filled the space with merchandise. Now with the Cooperstown Price Chopper, if that store were to be divested, no way no how it could be expanded under pretty much any circumstances. It's within village limits and within a residential area even though it faces a main road into and out of town. Besides, the village board is very particular about development. Don't know if you've noticed this Billy but this is very evident with the sign they have by the entrance. It's quite small by their standards but that's probably all the village would allow. That too is a nice store and even has space for a little sit down coffee area which is a holdover from Great American.

Long post ahead but here's my take on the redundant areas and what the FTC may require:

Rutland, VT - Although the large Hannaford here may make FTC look the other way, I still don't see the Tops being kept mostly due to its size. I could see Wakefern turning it into a PriceRite, keeping the union happy.
Warrensburg - Although this area is close to Albany, where Wakefern wants to expand, I think both stores here are too small for them. Instead, I see a wholesaler taking the Tops and reselling it to a customer.
Rome - I think both will stay due to the brand new Hannaford here.
Metro Syracuse - Although some stores seem redundant here, they all have Wegmans within a mile making them a non-issue.
Watertown- The 1 Price Chopper and 2 Tops here are all on opposite sides of town from each other, with the only other grocer being a Hannaford across 81 from the Price Chopper. If the FTC require a divestment, I would see the Tops on the north end of town going to Wakefern/PriceRite, and/or the one on the south end going to a wholesaler to resell.
Oneida/Sherrill - Although the Oneida Price Chopper (a former Tops) and the Sherrill Tops (formerly P&C) are in separate towns, they're only 3 miles from each other with no other grocers in either town. Therefore, I think the FTC will have the Sherrill Tops go to a wholesaler, who would resell to a customer.
Owego - The only two chain grocers here are a Tops-built Price Chopper and a P&C-built Tops. I think Weis will take the Price Chopper as its right between their Elmira & Binghamton stores.
Norwich - Like Owego, I think Weis will take the Price Chopper. They showed with the DE and Fredericksburg, VA Food Lions that they're not afraid of stretching out a bit geographically.
Cortland - Same thing as Norwich. Although there's a holdout P&C here, the FTC made it clear in 2010 they want 3 separate grocers here. Therefore, I'd look for Weis to take the Price Chopper.
Cooperstown - Same as Norwich, although Weis is slightly less likely here. If they don't buy here, I'd look for Wakefern to make the Tops a PriceRite, or for a wholesaler to acquire it and resell to a customer.

TW-Upstate NY wrote: ↑February 11th, 2021, 11:33 am With the Tops, there is a vacant lot on the side of the building which is now employee parking where they could build out if they did indeed take this location. It's not a bad store overall but the one thing I've noticed about it is that the aisles are very narrow vs. most other stores. That must've been a P+C thing because they had a store closer to home (in Gloversville) that had the very same thing and the funny thing about that is they kept those aisles small even after they expanded the building. I guess Tops just decided to stick with it. Also this store had a pharmacy when P+C had it but they closed it long before they left and Tops never reopened it-just filled the space with merchandise. Now with the Cooperstown Price Chopper, if that store were to be divested, no way no how it could be expanded under pretty much any circumstances. It's within village limits and within a residential area even though it faces a main road into and out of town. Besides, the village board is very particular about development. Don't know if you've noticed this Billy but this is very evident with the sign they have by the entrance. It's quite small by their standards but that's probably all the village would allow. That too is a nice store and even has space for a little sit down coffee area which is a holdover from Great American.

Can't even remember when the last time was I was out there - I'm pretty sure the P&C was still P&C and probably still had the pharmacy and I'm thinking Great American was still there as well (believe I just heard that Price Chopper had taken it over).

Not sure that I noticed the sign thing, but not surprising - our local area (south of Albany) has that type of thing as well, both in signs and building designs (thus a Dunkin with a fake 2nd story so it looks like a small house, a McDonald's that has siding in a more blue color than their usual colors with one small lit sign and a wooden one as they have access from 2 roads and so on).

I do remember going to one P&C years back (like later 1990's), I think that may have been Johnstown (or maybe the one you mention as Gloversville) - it would be on a main road, a plaza that had CVS and Burger King and a Hannaford plaza across the street diagonally? Those two being physically close I always confuse which one was which .

Mainly only since that had to be close to whenever they closed, and they were doing (I think) Triple Coupons and a fairly large value (something like anything up to $2) - probably trying to draw people in, though it may not have helped much...

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 14th, 2021, 6:10 pm Can't even remember when the last time was I was out there - I'm pretty sure the P&C was still P&C and probably still had the pharmacy and I'm thinking Great American was still there as well (believe I just heard that Price Chopper had taken it over).

The second P+C bankruptcy (actually Penn Traffic Co.) happened towards the end of 2009 and the auction was in the very early part of 2010 with Tops presumably taking over sometimes shortly afterwards. Golub bought the Great American sometime in the middle of that year and it opened as a Price Chopper in either late June or early July. It was distinctive at the time because the company claimed it was the fastest they ever converted a store they acquired. They did pretty much nothing to the exterior (again presumably because they most likely weren't allowed to) except change the signage but did a decent amount of renovating/upgrading to the interior. It's a nice store and serves the community well.

BillyGr wrote: ↑February 14th, 2021, 6:10 pm I do remember going to one P&C years back (like later 1990's), I think that may have been Johnstown (or maybe the one you mention as Gloversville) - it would be on a main road, a plaza that had CVS and Burger King and a Hannaford plaza across the street diagonally? Those two being physically close I always confuse which one was which .

That would've been the Gloversville store in the Arterial Plaza and that closed during their first bankruptcy in the early part of 1999. Staples moved in a few years after but didn't last long and there's a Tractor Supply there now. The Johnstown store closed in 1997 and was a relic which, except for a half finished "upgrading" (if you can even call it that) of the exterior appeared to NEVER have been remodeled from when it opened as a Save-Way market back in the early '60's. There were some spots on the floor where the tile was worn down to the concrete. They never put a dime in the place whereas the Gloversville store underwent a major remodel/expansion in the late '80's. And yes that triple coupon thing was a last ditch effort to drum up business and it did just that but the price to the company was driving up losses or wiping out what meager profit the store managed to turn. I remember during that period they even put in one or two makeshift temporary checkout lanes to handle the increased volume.

cathandler wrote: ↑February 8th, 2021, 11:28 am There is quite a bit of overlap in Syracuse. As for an Albertsons acquisition, there's a huge amount of overlap in Vermont that would be difficult to resolve. Perhaps Wakefern would be a suitor for the conflicts there; they already operate in Western Mass and New Hampshire under the Price Rite banner. Hannaford is maxed out, and Market Basket doesn't do acquisitions on that scale.

Market Basket always prefers to expand organically. They don't ever acquire stores. They are moving into Rhode Island lately.

Big Y could acquire stores in Vermont up for divestiture, assuming Albertsons buys Price Chopper/Tops.
There would also be some overlap in western NH and central MA (around Worcester) assuming this would happen.