Pavillions Arcadia

[pseudo3d]

Besides its upscale lineage, is there really a place for Pavilions anymore? After all, I believe one of the original traits was not only more upscale than Vons but also larger (in the mid-1980s they were 75k square feet, definitely larger than the average). With the average store size caught up (and the fact that 70k+ square foot stores seem to be proven too big for SoCal), along with the generally upscale appearance of the Lifestyle program (not that it is actually upscale in anything more than prices, often), it tends to squeeze out the Pavilions niche. I think that's why Albertsons seems to struggle trying to re-establish an identity for it.

[klkla]

I believe one of the original traits was not only more upscale than Vons but also larger (in the mid-1980s they were 75k square feet, definitely larger than the average). With the average store size caught up (and the fact that 70k+ square foot stores seem to be proven too big for SoCal),

Of the Pavilions built from ground up most were in the 50,000-55,000 sq. ft. range. I don't remember too many (if any) being close to 75,000 sq. ft. Vons built a handful of stores in that range when Smiths first returned to Southern California in the 90's but quickly gave up on that idea.

There's probably still room in the market for the concept but I don't think their current management has the talent to pull it off.

[pseudo3d]

I believe one of the original traits was not only more upscale than Vons but also larger (in the mid-1980s they were 75k square feet, definitely larger than the average). With the average store size caught up (and the fact that 70k+ square foot stores seem to be proven too big for SoCal),

Of the Pavilions built from ground up most were in the 50,000-55,000 sq. ft. range. I don't remember too many (if any) being close to 75,000 sq. ft. Vons built a handful of stores in that range when Smiths first returned to Southern California in the 90's but quickly gave up on that idea.

There's probably still room in the market for the concept but I don't think their current management has the talent to pull it off.

Just to show I'm not pulling numbers out of my hat, this is the article that references 75k square foot Pavilions stores, which also talks about Ralphs' "Giant" stores, which were up to 100k square feet in size.

[veteran+]

I believe one of the original traits was not only more upscale than Vons but also larger (in the mid-1980s they were 75k square feet, definitely larger than the average). With the average store size caught up (and the fact that 70k+ square foot stores seem to be proven too big for SoCal),

Of the Pavilions built from ground up most were in the 50,000-55,000 sq. ft. range. I don't remember too many (if any) being close to 75,000 sq. ft. Vons built a handful of stores in that range when Smiths first returned to Southern California in the 90's but quickly gave up on that idea.

There's probably still room in the market for the concept but I don't think their current management has the talent to pull it off.

100% on the mark!!

[steps]

I believe one of the original traits was not only more upscale than Vons but also larger (in the mid-1980s they were 75k square feet, definitely larger than the average). With the average store size caught up (and the fact that 70k+ square foot stores seem to be proven too big for SoCal),

Of the Pavilions built from ground up most were in the 50,000-55,000 sq. ft. range. I don't remember too many (if any) being close to 75,000 sq. ft. Vons built a handful of stores in that range when Smiths first returned to Southern California in the 90's but quickly gave up on that idea.

There's probably still room in the market for the concept but I don't think their current management has the talent to pull it off.

Just to show I'm not pulling numbers out of my hat, this is the article that references 75k square foot Pavilions stores, which also talks about Ralphs' "Giant" stores, which were up to 100k square feet in size.

I would have to say Garden Grove & Burbank defiantly had/have to be close to 75K. The article mentions 5 stores in 1986, I'm only sure of Garden Grove being around then.

Weren't most built in the suburbs then? 75K doesn't sound like a stretch, I'm sure land was "cheap" in those areas.

[klkla]

I would have to say Garden Grove & Burbank defiantly had/have to be close to 75K. The article mentions 5 stores in 1986, I'm only sure of Garden Grove being around then.

Weren't most built in the suburbs then? 75K doesn't sound like a stretch, I'm sure land was "cheap" in those areas.

I opened Burbank and it was definitely in the 50,000 sq. ft. range (If memory serves me correctly 52,000 sq. ft. but using Google Maps to do a rough approximation I came up with 54,000 sq. ft.) Garden Grove may have been bigger as it was the prototype and built inside of an existing structure.

[steps]

I would have to say Garden Grove & Burbank defiantly had/have to be close to 75K. The article mentions 5 stores in 1986, I'm only sure of Garden Grove being around then.

Weren't most built in the suburbs then? 75K doesn't sound like a stretch, I'm sure land was "cheap" in those areas.

I opened Burbank and it was definitely in the 50,000 sq. ft. range (If memory serves me correctly 52,000 sq. ft. but using Google Maps to do a rough approximation I came up with 54,000 sq. ft.) Garden Grove may have been bigger as it was the prototype and built inside of an existing structure.

Only 50K for Burbank? I remember going there pre-strike around 2000 and that was by far the biggest Pavilions I can remember. It had every amenity you could think of and a cafeteria like eating area if I remember correctly. That store was like a department store to me. I was much younger then, so if I saw it now, it would probably seem much smaller to me.

Do you recall the 5 Pavilions (and 2 in progress builds) the article was speaking of? Maybe we could pinpoint the 75K stores (if they ever existed). The article could have also got the SF wrong and meant something else. The reporter could have also been using Garden Grove as an example not realizing other store were much smaller.

[klkla]

Do you recall the 5 Pavilions (and 2 in progress builds) the article was speaking of? Maybe we could pinpoint the 75K stores (if they ever existed). The article could have also got the SF wrong and meant something else. The reporter could have also been using Garden Grove as an example not realizing other store were much smaller.

The early stores that come to mind off the top of my head were Westminster, Lakewood, Long Beach, Monrovia, Baldwin Park, Arcadia and Upland. I can't imagine any of those being 75,000 sq. ft. but I don't know for sure. Baldwin Park and Upland felt a little bigger but both were huge failures (as in less than $200K a week in sales) and were used as training stores after the Safeway acquisition. They probably felt bigger because there was never any customers in them.

[pseudo3d]

I would have to say Garden Grove & Burbank defiantly had/have to be close to 75K. The article mentions 5 stores in 1986, I'm only sure of Garden Grove being around then.

Weren't most built in the suburbs then? 75K doesn't sound like a stretch, I'm sure land was "cheap" in those areas.

I opened Burbank and it was definitely in the 50,000 sq. ft. range (If memory serves me correctly 52,000 sq. ft. but using Google Maps to do a rough approximation I came up with 54,000 sq. ft.) Garden Grove may have been bigger as it was the prototype and built inside of an existing structure.

Only 50K for Burbank? I remember going there pre-strike around 2000 and that was by far the biggest Pavilions I can remember. It had every amenity you could think of and a cafeteria like eating area if I remember correctly. That store was like a department store to me. I was much younger then, so if I saw it now, it would probably seem much smaller to me.

Do you recall the 5 Pavilions (and 2 in progress builds) the article was speaking of? Maybe we could pinpoint the 75K stores (if they ever existed). The article could have also got the SF wrong and meant something else. The reporter could have also been using Garden Grove as an example not realizing other store were much smaller.

Maybe the 75k square foot stores were a mistake by journalists. In any case, I suppose a good "use" for Pavilions would be a superstore far larger than the main Vons (70k-100k square feet) and modeled after Wegmans, but even if Albertsons had the operations to make it work, it would be ridiculously difficult to maintain profitability.

[storewanderer]

I felt like the stores were definitely over 65k square feet the first times I went into them. But on my more recent visits to Pavilions they do feel like they are in the 55k square foot range.

I think it is also somewhat difficult to estimate size in these as the deli/bakery area sits in the middle of the store. Normally that is off on the walls and that space does not feel like "part of the store." In Pavilions, it does feel like part of the store.

I don't see the 70k-100k sq. ft. format being profitable in CA. Well, WinCo does it...