Pavillions Arcadia

[klkla]

But on my more recent visits to Pavilions they do feel like they are in the 55k square foot range. I think it is also somewhat difficult to estimate size in these as the deli/bakery area sits in the middle of the store. Normally that is off on the walls and that space does not feel like "part of the store." In Pavilions, it does feel like part of the store.

You're right. The backroom areas of the stores were reduced by the amount of space needed for the kitchens of the Bakery/Deli/Panda Express departments in the center of the store which made the stores feel larger overall.

When Vons started building larger stores to compete with Smiths they really struggled with how to handle all the extra selling space. The first of these large stores, which opened in Simi Valley, had an entire aisle of Rubbermaid items. They were intended as high-margin impulse items but just sat on the shelf. Sales were horrible.

In California we have too many options for buying life's necessities and for our grocery stores we really only want to buy groceries. We don't want to buy our clothes there. We don't want to by our furniture there. Just sell us good food at a reasonable price and don't waste our time with all the rest. We don't have time for it.

[steps]

Of the top of my head, could Pavilions potentially be expanded to be Albertson's version "Fred Meyer" in other states? I'm not familiar with Albertson's merchandising or if they're even capable of such a feat.

Just a random thought....

[lake]

Of the top of my head, could Pavilions potentially be expanded to be Albertson's version "Fred Meyer" in other states? I'm not familiar with Albertson's merchandising or if they're even capable of such a feat.

Just a random thought....

I think it would be very unwise of Albertsons to start stepping on a market with a few VERY strong players. Unless they rolled this out very quickly with large volumes of goods purchased, they would be eaten alive by Walmart, Fred Meyer, Target, Meijer, and the crew. These chains gets their prices from purchasing and selling at super high volume and Albertsons would have no way to roll this out with competitive pricing unless they were willing to take a huge loss. The Pavillions brand name has very little recognition outside of Southern California so it wouldn't make sense for them to reuse the brand even if they pursued this market.

[storewanderer]

It also doesn't make sense since in general retail brick and mortar is contracting and "big box" stores seem to be very saturated.

[pseudo3d]

When Vons started building larger stores to compete with Smiths they really struggled with how to handle all the extra selling space. The first of these large stores, which opened in Simi Valley, had an entire aisle of Rubbermaid items. They were intended as high-margin impulse items but just sat on the shelf. Sales were horrible.

I am aware of the "Everything Rubbermaid" department Vons had, and Phar-Mor had similar departments too. Must have been one of those weird early 1990s things that never caught on. However, there are definitely better ways to fill space than novelty departments (expanded liquor?), and I would definitely not take an unusual failed department Vons had as proof positive for that.

In California we have too many options for buying life's necessities and for our grocery stores we really only want to buy groceries. We don't want to buy our clothes there. We don't want to by our furniture there. Just sell us good food at a reasonable price and don't waste our time with all the rest. We don't have time for it.

Might explain why there's no real "Ralphs Marketplace" in that division (and yes, the Kroger Marketplace furniture departments were incredibly odd to begin with...ugly rejects from Ashley Furniture, which isn't exactly high quality). But if I heard correctly, SoCal grocery shoppers do shop around...

I think it would be very unwise of Albertsons to start stepping on a market with a few VERY strong players. Unless they rolled this out very quickly with large volumes of goods purchased, they would be eaten alive by Walmart, Fred Meyer, Target, Meijer, and the crew. These chains gets their prices from purchasing and selling at super high volume and Albertsons would have no way to roll this out with competitive pricing unless they were willing to take a huge loss. The Pavillions brand name has very little recognition outside of Southern California so it wouldn't make sense for them to reuse the brand even if they pursued this market.

Definitely not nation-wide (though "the crew" is getting smaller, with Kmart dying and all), but I think that there's room to launch something like that, just not through the Pavilions name and not in SoCal (or nation-wide).

[storewanderer]

I think the general purpose mass merchandise store is saturated. The Supercenter format has been very popular with the baby boomer generation but is it popular with the younger generation? I am not so sure it is... many people I talk to who go to Wal Mart and Target only go because they think it is cheap. Once they find out it is not as cheap as they thought, they start going elsewhere. Maybe once they have kids the mass merchandise store will become appealing again due to the "elimination of multiple stops" feature that is presented. For product depth/selection you can go elsewhere; Petco/Petsmart for pet items, Home Depot/Lowes for garden and home improvement, Bed Bath & Beyond for home goods, etc.

Kmart and Target are both seeing soft sales and Wal Mart US is clearly saturated.

The only way I see Albertsons attempting anything of this nature would be if they merged with a strong softlines player (probably one of the department store chains) and then I think they could come up with a hardlines program on their own that would work well enough, to form a supercenter. But the operation as it stands is not in ANY position to do anything of that nature at this time.

[pseudo3d]

I think the general purpose mass merchandise store is saturated. The Supercenter format has been very popular with the baby boomer generation but is it popular with the younger generation? I am not so sure it is... many people I talk to who go to Wal Mart and Target only go because they think it is cheap. Once they find out it is not as cheap as they thought, they start going elsewhere. Maybe once they have kids the mass merchandise store will become appealing again due to the "elimination of multiple stops" feature that is presented. For product depth/selection you can go elsewhere; Petco/Petsmart for pet items, Home Depot/Lowes for garden and home improvement, Bed Bath & Beyond for home goods, etc.

The only way I see Albertsons attempting anything of this nature would be if they merged with a strong softlines player (probably one of the department store chains) and then I think they could come up with a hardlines program on their own that would work well enough, to form a supercenter. But the operation as it stands is not in ANY position to do anything of that nature at this time.

It's easy to cite dissatisfaction with the supercenter format when the two main stores have problems of their own...Walmart is known for having a poor selection in many departments, filthy stores, and a certain type of customer, while Target has pigeonholed itself with its limited selection of food and hardlines.

Kroger Marketplace IS expanding though in large markets (not sure how the non-food departments actually perform) but they have Fred Meyer as a partner for that (H-E-B Plus is an organic example, though it has a more limited non-food selection and problems of its own), and it's inconceivable that Albertsons could run any sort of large store operation where a store over 75k square feet is a rarity.

Which brings me back to my original question...with those sorts of large stores off the table in California anyway (Rubbermaid or not, not many can get away with 75k+ square feet stores in that market), can a niche be formed for Pavilions anymore? Or maybe Albertsons should finally take Pavilions behind the shed and put it out of its misery entirely...

[storewanderer]

Pavilions as it is, is just fine. They are nice stores in upper middle class to upper class areas. Are they really much different than a normal Vons? Not really. Is there any reason to rebanner? Not that I can see. May as well just keep running them... rebrandings and new signs cost money.

I think maybe they are going to try to segment the Pavilions a little better than they have before (even if they just really focused on better execution and labor and perimeter standards in those stores vs. the others it would help them have a better image than a regular Vons), and that is why we've seen a few rebranded to Vons lately.