Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

[ClownLoach]

I made the mistake of visiting a F4L and it's obvious that something has changed. All labor has been slashed to the bone even though they don't have self checkout, and I am really wondering if part of the C&S deal is that every California F4L and FoodsCo is going to them so they've already thrown in the towel. Lights burned out, taped cart handles, I thought I was at the Piggly Wiggly franchise we are joking about far too much. Bakery counter not staffed and only thaw and serve goods. Meat appeared to all be factory cut shelf ready, the Kroger Mercado stuff I have mentioned they seem to use as a shelf filler at Ralphs when needed. These were pretty disgusting stores but they were at least trying to compete and something has dramatically changed in the last three months. Prices were higher than Norcal Safeway levels too and the place was absolutely dead. I really wonder if their intent is to keep literally every single store that isn't a true "across the street" or "opposite corner" overlap, and then jettison these F4L since they are never going to regain the popularity they had versus Winco...

[jamcool]

Per Kroger C&S is already contracted to purchase any additional stores required for divestiture. Therefore there will be no other buyers. C&S has been given exclusive rights, and furthermore seemingly does not have right to refuse either.

While I have said that C&S can and very well might run the stores, I would suggest that none of you should be surprised should they end up selling them all off piecemeal to independents.

I'm almost sure they'll be sold off. I do wonder if their deal to license the Albertsons name is non transferable though... It's bad enough they propose to have two sets of Albertsons again, let alone Albertsons (Kroger), Albertsons (C&S), and Albertsons (C&S Franchisee)

I still think the mass rebranding in SoCal will be a disaster, and furthermore I think we will be surprised to find far more Ralphs/F4L being divested than Albertsons/Vons, which means all those sold Ralphs become Albertsons, sold Vons become Albertsons, the kept Albertsons have to become Ralphs or Vons (more likely), and the sign companies get rich.

Or more likely they slap the Kroger name on everything and be done with it. They already run “Kroger Brand” ads nationwide.

[ClownLoach]

While I have said that C&S can and very well might run the stores, I would suggest that none of you should be surprised should they end up selling them all off piecemeal to independents.

I'm almost sure they'll be sold off. I do wonder if their deal to license the Albertsons name is non transferable though... It's bad enough they propose to have two sets of Albertsons again, let alone Albertsons (Kroger), Albertsons (C&S), and Albertsons (C&S Franchisee)

I still think the mass rebranding in SoCal will be a disaster, and furthermore I think we will be surprised to find far more Ralphs/F4L being divested than Albertsons/Vons, which means all those sold Ralphs become Albertsons, sold Vons become Albertsons, the kept Albertsons have to become Ralphs or Vons (more likely), and the sign companies get rich.

Or more likely they slap the Kroger name on everything and be done with it. They already run “Kroger Brand” ads nationwide.

If they were going to rebrand to Kroger nationwide they would have done it years ago. They've already stated publicly that they know it would be a disaster that is poorly accepted by customers. Macy's did the same thing and they have lost most of their sales, and the deterioration began almost immediately in rebranded markets. People do not like when "outsiders" take over "their local brands" and it is well known that the many issues/problems that they overlooked before suddenly become obvious and now justify finding a new place to shop instead. Rebrands to national banners do not work.

They do want national brand recognition which is why they made up the stupid fruit cart, but they're never going to get rid of the local brands. All of their advertisements now show the local brand, fruit cart, and say they are part of the "Kroger Family of Stores" which is as far as they can safely take it.

And they prove again they're not going to rebrand because of the way they sold the banners. If they were going to just be Kroger coast to coast then why license Albertsons name in only a few states?

[HCal]

I made the mistake of visiting a F4L and it's obvious that something has changed. All labor has been slashed to the bone even though they don't have self checkout, and I am really wondering if part of the C&S deal is that every California F4L and FoodsCo is going to them so they've already thrown in the towel. Lights burned out, taped cart handles, I thought I was at the Piggly Wiggly franchise we are joking about far too much. Bakery counter not staffed and only thaw and serve goods. Meat appeared to all be factory cut shelf ready, the Kroger Mercado stuff I have mentioned they seem to use as a shelf filler at Ralphs when needed. These were pretty disgusting stores but they were at least trying to compete and something has dramatically changed in the last three months. Prices were higher than Norcal Safeway levels too and the place was absolutely dead. I really wonder if their intent is to keep literally every single store that isn't a true "across the street" or "opposite corner" overlap, and then jettison these F4L since they are never going to regain the popularity they had versus Winco...

Where was this F4L? I was at one in OC recently and it seemed to be no different from normal.

If they were planning to divest all F4L, they would have given C&S the rights to the F4L name, so I don't think that's likely. I'm guessing it will be a mix of banners, but perhaps they will prefer to give up F4L rather than Ralphs stores when possible. Ralphs probably has more overlap with Vons/Albertsons though.

[BillyGr]

Or more likely they slap the Kroger name on everything and be done with it. They already run “Kroger Brand” ads nationwide.

If they were going to rebrand to Kroger nationwide they would have done it years ago. They've already stated publicly that they know it would be a disaster that is poorly accepted by customers. Macy's did the same thing and they have lost most of their sales, and the deterioration began almost immediately in rebranded markets. People do not like when "outsiders" take over "their local brands" and it is well known that the many issues/problems that they overlooked before suddenly become obvious and now justify finding a new place to shop instead. Rebrands to national banners do not work.

And they prove again they're not going to rebrand because of the way they sold the banners. If they were going to just be Kroger coast to coast then why license Albertsons name in only a few states?

The only thinking would be that, if they have stores that HAVE to be changed (when they are selling off a name be it everywhere or in one area), then what name they choose as the replacement is not quite the same issue.

In fact, if they chose to use a name that wasn't previously there, that might be a selling point (especially if the prior name was known and not in a good way) that this is something new & different that you customers should check out.

[storewanderer]

I made the mistake of visiting a F4L and it's obvious that something has changed. All labor has been slashed to the bone even though they don't have self checkout, and I am really wondering if part of the C&S deal is that every California F4L and FoodsCo is going to them so they've already thrown in the towel. Lights burned out, taped cart handles, I thought I was at the Piggly Wiggly franchise we are joking about far too much. Bakery counter not staffed and only thaw and serve goods. Meat appeared to all be factory cut shelf ready, the Kroger Mercado stuff I have mentioned they seem to use as a shelf filler at Ralphs when needed. These were pretty disgusting stores but they were at least trying to compete and something has dramatically changed in the last three months. Prices were higher than Norcal Safeway levels too and the place was absolutely dead. I really wonder if their intent is to keep literally every single store that isn't a true "across the street" or "opposite corner" overlap, and then jettison these F4L since they are never going to regain the popularity they had versus Winco...

You may want to check Safeway NorCal pricing before you make that comment. It is far higher than F4L. FAR higher.

Recent whoppers from NorCal Safeway:

1lb LandOLakes Butter 8.99
2lb Signature Brown Sugar 4.99
2lb C&H Brown Sugar 5.29 sale (5.49 reg)
4lb C&H Sugar 5.79 sale (5.99 reg)
4lb Siganture Sugar 5.49
5lb Gold Medal Flour 5.49 sale (6.79 reg)
5lb Signature Flour 4.79
Donut 1.29 EACH

[veteran+]

The F4L in E. Mission Valley, San Diego (upscale area for sure) was a mess even back in 2020

Kroger makes some really stupid decisions.

They should give up that F4L nonsense and be in total control of the Albertsons name. Fracturing Albertsons AGAIN is just plain folly.

[ClownLoach]

I made the mistake of visiting a F4L and it's obvious that something has changed. All labor has been slashed to the bone even though they don't have self checkout, and I am really wondering if part of the C&S deal is that every California F4L and FoodsCo is going to them so they've already thrown in the towel. Lights burned out, taped cart handles, I thought I was at the Piggly Wiggly franchise we are joking about far too much. Bakery counter not staffed and only thaw and serve goods. Meat appeared to all be factory cut shelf ready, the Kroger Mercado stuff I have mentioned they seem to use as a shelf filler at Ralphs when needed. These were pretty disgusting stores but they were at least trying to compete and something has dramatically changed in the last three months. Prices were higher than Norcal Safeway levels too and the place was absolutely dead. I really wonder if their intent is to keep literally every single store that isn't a true "across the street" or "opposite corner" overlap, and then jettison these F4L since they are never going to regain the popularity they had versus Winco...

You may want to check Safeway NorCal pricing before you make that comment. It is far higher than F4L. FAR higher.

Recent whoppers from NorCal Safeway:

1lb LandOLakes Butter 8.99
2lb Signature Brown Sugar 4.99
2lb C&H Brown Sugar 5.29 sale (5.49 reg)
4lb C&H Sugar 5.79 sale (5.99 reg)
4lb Siganture Sugar 5.49
5lb Gold Medal Flour 5.49 sale (6.79 reg)
5lb Signature Flour 4.79
Donut 1.29 EACH

I will go check the baking goods which are already all on sale on Holiday displays, but Ralphs and F4L both had reached regular price of $8.99 for Land O Lakes and Danish Creamery here in the IE. They have been running sales so I think the new gimmick is comically high regular price then Macy's style sales that run for months. They had the Land O Lakes at $3.49 after sale plus extra savings if you bought two or more. This strategy of telling you whopper savings stories at checkout is probably how they intend to portray "the billion dollar price cuts" post merger by running up full price to run promotions where "you saved $85.92 today!" Yet the same basket is probably $15 higher than Winco.

The F4L looking rough was Temecula. Slightly off topic, that Temecula F4L is a converted Ralphs which doesn't match the history we thought. The walls are regular block walls unplastered, similar to many Ralphs builds in the 70s and 80s although the front doesn't match. But the back along I-15 has two obvious oval label scars on the block wall where it had a Ralphs sign. Four blocks north is a split up alleged former Ralphs as well at Winchester and Margarita that is now "the 99" and a CVS and I think Planet Fitness. Makes me think they were next to I-15 and rebranded the original Ralphs to F4L (and probably expanded it, opening the ceiling at the time), then opened a newer Ralphs four blocks North which didn't catch on across the street from a Smiths that is now a insanely busy Winco.

It could be that they're pulling back on this F4L and would sell it to C&S if a merger went through because they could easily convert this one to an Albertsons as it doesn't quite have the weird F4L layout and feels more like a bad attempt at a Hispanic format Ralphs. It's surrounded by Albertsons and a couple Vons that both stink. If I were them and trying to pick the losers to sell it would be this F4L and the infamous Murrieta Vons as the F4L might be considered to overlap with that and the Temecula Vons that they probably want to keep. They definitely would need to choose between the F4L and the Temecula Vons as they're basically on the same street a few minutes apart driving; the Vons I believe is a Albertsons cast-off from their last merger after moving across Ynez to a larger box (that former Albertsons is a independent Asian grocer called Ranch 88).

[retailfanmitchell019]

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The F4L looking rough was Temecula. Slightly off topic, that Temecula F4L is a converted Ralphs which doesn't match the history we thought. The walls are regular block walls unplastered, similar to many Ralphs builds in the 70s and 80s although the front doesn't match. But the back along I-15 has two obvious oval label scars on the block wall where it had a Ralphs sign. Four blocks north is a split up alleged former Ralphs as well at Winchester and Margarita that is now "the 99" and a CVS and I think Planet Fitness. Makes me think they were next to I-15 and rebranded the original Ralphs to F4L (and probably expanded it, opening the ceiling at the time), then opened a newer Ralphs four blocks North which didn't catch on across the street from a Smiths that is now a insanely busy Winco.

It could be that they're pulling back on this F4L and would sell it to C&S if a merger went through because they could easily convert this one to an Albertsons. It's surrounded by Albertsons and a couple Vons that both stink. If I were them and trying to pick the losers to sell it would be this F4L and the infamous Murrieta Vons.

Temecula Food 4 Less was originally a Mega Foods: https://www.newspapers.com/article/the- ... 133820387/
Mega Foods was a discount grocer operating in the Las Vegas-San Diego-Phoenix “triangle” in the early 90s. Mega Foods was based in Mesa, AZ. They were a Fleming member. Food 4 Less bought their stores in SoCal and Vegas. Ultimately, Mega was reduced to an Arizona presence in 1996, and it was sold to Bashas’.

Personally, I don’t think this merger stuff is going through, with AG Bonta potentially suing to stop the merger in CA, and the Feds potentially railing against the merger too: https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail- ... cane-storm
The opposition is gaining steam lately with this ill-advised C&S deal.

[ClownLoach]

.

The F4L looking rough was Temecula. Slightly off topic, that Temecula F4L is a converted Ralphs which doesn't match the history we thought. The walls are regular block walls unplastered, similar to many Ralphs builds in the 70s and 80s although the front doesn't match. But the back along I-15 has two obvious oval label scars on the block wall where it had a Ralphs sign. Four blocks north is a split up alleged former Ralphs as well at Winchester and Margarita that is now "the 99" and a CVS and I think Planet Fitness. Makes me think they were next to I-15 and rebranded the original Ralphs to F4L (and probably expanded it, opening the ceiling at the time), then opened a newer Ralphs four blocks North which didn't catch on across the street from a Smiths that is now a insanely busy Winco.

It could be that they're pulling back on this F4L and would sell it to C&S if a merger went through because they could easily convert this one to an Albertsons. It's surrounded by Albertsons and a couple Vons that both stink. If I were them and trying to pick the losers to sell it would be this F4L and the infamous Murrieta Vons.

Temecula Food 4 Less was originally a Mega Foods: https://www.newspapers.com/article/the- ... 133820387/
Mega Foods was a discount grocer operating in the Las Vegas-San Diego-Phoenix “triangle” in the early 90s. Mega Foods was based in Mesa, AZ. They were a Fleming member. Food 4 Less bought their stores in SoCal and Vegas. Ultimately, Mega was reduced to an Arizona presence in 1996, and it was sold to Bashas’.

Personally, I don’t think this merger stuff is going through, with AG Bonta potentially suing to stop the merger in CA, and the Feds potentially railing against the merger too: https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail- ... cane-storm
The opposition is gaining steam lately with this ill-advised C&S deal.

I think the Bonta suit will be a serious problem for this merger, especially because I think the divestitures proposed for California are very minimal as explained before. Furthermore the planned disruption with potentially hundreds of stores rebranding and thus playing "Musical chairs" in SoCal is plain stupid and going to ultimately be a gift to Walmart and others who will pick up share. I do not believe that there will be closures though, I think anything they wanted to close is lumped in with the C&S deal since nearly any store could be claimed to be a competitive overlap. They will want to keep holding onto stores since there are real threats to commercial real estate for redevelopment purposes, plus the big chains culled too many stores in the mid and late 2000's only to find that now it's far too costly to rebuild and reenter these aggressively growing markets. Yes, growing...

As has been discussed elsewhere, there is something odd going on with the California population and it isn't shrinking as people might believe... I keep getting ads for Tennessee and North Dakota "mail box services" that will gladly help you reregister your cars, get a new drivers license, create a out of state corporation, etc. to basically cheat the California tax system and claim you've moved out. I believe this is much more prevalent and widespread than we are led to believe. (That does NOT mean that I don't believe many families are moving out of state too, I know they are, but there are too many areas where anyone with two working eyes can see that the housing capacity has doubled or more and the roads are jam packed yet the population is flat or negative which seems very unlikely).