Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by CalItalian »

veteran+ wrote:
CalItalian wrote:
storewanderer wrote:

Ralphs has a number of locations that are doing less volume than the surrounding Vons or Albertsons. Many of these are the stores that have been closed. Most are former Hughes or Alpha Beta locations, received little to no capex by Ralphs, and were not in great shape. Most were in the 40,000 square foot range and did not have pharmacy.

Ralphs has barely more than 5 or so gas stations because they have had a difficult time securing land to add fuel stations. There is not room in the parking lots. Most of the Ralphs gas stations I know of (Woodland Hills, San Diego) are acquisitions of pre-existing gas stations across the road from the main store.

As far as building large marketplace stores, Ralphs was the second division to have Marketplace Stores (Frys was first) but they were a smaller model than the current model. They were 65,000 or so square foot stores with 2-3 aisles of general merchandise supplied by Fred Meyer (kitchen goods, sporting goods, and some random hardware and such). This was the store model Ralphs went into new markets with (Palm Springs, NorCal, and various new stores around SoCal) and the format was ultimately shelved. There are a good number of these stores still open scattered around SoCal and most do have the "itchen Place" department now but the other non-food is long gone. It has been proven time and time again in SoCal that you cannot get a good ROI if you build stores too big. This is why Smiths failed in SoCal in the 90's; the stores were too big to cover overhead. Lucky built a lot of large Lucky/Sav-On stores in the late 1990's and not many of those are still open at this point. So I don't think the current Marketplace format is the right fit for SoCal. Land is costly and somewhat difficult to acquire and many other retailers want surrounding space. This is also why you see WinCo shifting expansion from California to lower cost places like Texas and Oklahoma.

I think outside Los Angeles Ralphs has missed a lot of opportunities for one reason or another. In NorCal it was poor locations and poor pricing. I don't know what went wrong in some of these other places.
Ralphs has had a number of large locations since the 1980's. They are the converted Zody's locations such as Ralphs in Redondo Beach or Food 4 Less in Hollywood. They were first The Giant, a chain Ralphs ran separately at first (with Rosanne Barr as spokesperson) before merging them into the Ralphs chain. They are/were 70,000 to 100,000 sq. ft. http://articles.latimes.com/1988-02-05/ ... phs-stores

There are a number of Ralphs former Hughes Market locations that do incredible business. Beverly Hills, Studio City, West Los Angeles, Malibu, Pacific Palisades, Rancho Palos Verdes, just to name a few. Some, such as Beverly Hills and West Los Angeles do not have a pharmacy. Beverly Hills is one of the smallest Ralphs there is.

Yes Cal, you are correct.

But sadly, I think the trend in California has been moving away from those large footprints.

I am a huge fan of the super big palace size stores and wish they would come back!
Well, they did nearly double the size of the Westwood Village store to 94,000 sq. ft. last year. They gutted the entire store. The most extensive supermarket remodel I've ever seen. I love how the highest ceiling is black and they drop it partially throughout the store (including lighting). As for general merchandise, they have little so even if Ralphs had more larger stores, they wouldn't be like a Fry's. In Westwood, additional service departments (Murray's Cheese, Boar's Head deli, juice bar, sit down sushi bar, guest services/money transfer - among others), a bar, cork & tap, an extensive hot foods selection (Chef-on-the-go), Live Naturally non-foods section, expanding service meat, additional produce, tripling of frozen foods, quintupling of liquor/wine were the biggest additions. Center aisles actually carry fewer items than most Ralphs (which is disappointing to me...poor selection of snacks, cereal, canned goods - to just name three). This is an affluent area but also across the street from UCLA so they're catering to both. There are plenty of photos on Yelp including many of mine... https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ralphs- ... ?start=120

Sometime this summer, Ralphs in Redondo Beach is going to go through a remodel (It has polished concrete floors which I was told will be covered with tile, for one). It was a former Zody's. It's almost 80,000 sq. ft. Will be interesting to see what they do with it. Doesn't have a Murray's Cheese but recently added a Starbucks. Has a lot of under utilized space which works great for promotional displays which they always have up. General merchandise is minimal but I love this location for the center aisle selection.

I recently went into the Ralphs Fresh Fare, former Hughes Market, in Rancho Palos Verdes. This is the oddest Ralphs since the checkout is smack in the middle of the store. Even after the remodel, they didn't make good use of the space. It's a fairly large store but the center aisles/produce/liquor/meat still seams cramped while there is lots of open space on the other side of the checkstands where the pharmacy, bakery, deli and hot foods are.
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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by rwsandiego »

veteran+ wrote: ...But sadly, I think the trend in California has been moving away from those large footprints.

I am a huge fan of the super big palace size stores and wish they would come back!
You might get your wish. Kroger acquired Roundy's, which owned Mariano's. Built-from-the-ground-up Mariano's are huge. Three of their Chicago locations are two-level due to the limited size of city lots. In the acquisition press release Kroger stated their intent to adopt and adapt Mariano's concepts elsewhere. I can see a Ralph's that looks like a Mariano's in select CA markets.

Personally, I am holding out for one here in San Diego. Should be interesting.
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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by veteran+ »

rwsandiego wrote:
veteran+ wrote: ...But sadly, I think the trend in California has been moving away from those large footprints.

I am a huge fan of the super big palace size stores and wish they would come back!
You might get your wish. Kroger acquired Roundy's, which owned Mariano's. Built-from-the-ground-up Mariano's are huge. Three of their Chicago locations are two-level due to the limited size of city lots. In the acquisition press release Kroger stated their intent to adopt and adapt Mariano's concepts elsewhere. I can see a Ralph's that looks like a Mariano's in select CA markets.

Personally, I am holding out for one here in San Diego. Should be interesting.
Wow, I would love that!!

I guess I am biased to large format supermarkets. I had hoped that the european hypermarket format would have become extremely popular (it did not).

One of the first markets I managed was a 125,000 square foot store that incorporated Pantry Pride, J.M. Fields and Pride Drugs under one roof (Florida late 1970's, I was very young). For that time, it was huge!

As a shopper, I'm one of the "one stop shop" type. I need to get everything I want in one place with room to buy and a fast check out. Time and efficiency is at play here for me.

I love Trader Joes, I really do, but the parking is always a nightmare and the shopping experience is chaotic, confusing, not easy to navigate (too crowded) and often not a fast checkout (too crowded). Then, of course they don't carry everything I need so another trip somewhere else?
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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by pseudo3d »

veteran+ wrote:
rwsandiego wrote:
veteran+ wrote: ...But sadly, I think the trend in California has been moving away from those large footprints.

I am a huge fan of the super big palace size stores and wish they would come back!
You might get your wish. Kroger acquired Roundy's, which owned Mariano's. Built-from-the-ground-up Mariano's are huge. Three of their Chicago locations are two-level due to the limited size of city lots. In the acquisition press release Kroger stated their intent to adopt and adapt Mariano's concepts elsewhere. I can see a Ralph's that looks like a Mariano's in select CA markets.

Personally, I am holding out for one here in San Diego. Should be interesting.
Wow, I would love that!!

I guess I am biased to large format supermarkets. I had hoped that the european hypermarket format would have become extremely popular (it did not).

One of the first markets I managed was a 125,000 square foot store that incorporated Pantry Pride, J.M. Fields and Pride Drugs under one roof (Florida late 1970's, I was very young). For that time, it was huge!

As a shopper, I'm one of the "one stop shop" type. I need to get everything I want in one place with room to buy and a fast check out. Time and efficiency is at play here for me.

I love Trader Joes, I really do, but the parking is always a nightmare and the shopping experience is chaotic, confusing, not easy to navigate (too crowded) and often not a fast checkout (too crowded). Then, of course they don't carry everything I need so another trip somewhere else?
Mariano's new-builds are only 80k square feet to 90k square feet, which is a pretty large size for supermarkets (Jewel-Osco has a small handful of stores that are that size as well), but nothing like Kroger's larger formats. Personally, I'm not a big fan of supermarkets over 100k square feet, because there's not a whole lot more selection (mostly just dead space to accommodate crowds) and it's an absolute pain to slog through a 140k square feet store when you realize you forgot something on the other side.
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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by rwsandiego »

veteran+ wrote:...
I guess I am biased to large format supermarkets. I had hoped that the european hypermarket format would have become extremely popular (it did not).

As a shopper, I'm one of the "one stop shop" type. I need to get everything I want in one place with room to buy and a fast check out. Time and efficiency is at play here for me....
I'm right there with you. Imagine my disappointment when I moved to San Diego and found there were no true combo stores like we had back in Chicago. I just learned that the "small" Jewel-Osco near my former home is ~50K square feet. The "big" one was in the neighborhood of 90K square feet.
pseudo3d wrote: Mariano's new-builds are only 80k square feet to 90k square feet, which is a pretty large size for supermarkets (Jewel-Osco has a small handful of stores that are that size as well), but nothing like Kroger's larger formats. Personally, I'm not a big fan of supermarkets over 100k square feet, because there's not a whole lot more selection (mostly just dead space to accommodate crowds) and it's an absolute pain to slog through a 140k square feet store when you realize you forgot something on the other side.
True, neither chain has stores the size of Fred Meyer or Kroger's other iterations of the chain. As I stated above, one of the two Jewel-Oscos I shopped was in the neighborhood of 90K square feet. Amazing store.

I think the Mariano's and Jewel-Oscos seem larger to me than they really are because most of the stores in my area are on the small side. It will be interesting to see what Kroger does now that they own Mariano's. Larger Mariano's, perhaps? Fred Meyers with a gourmet food court? The mind races.
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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by CalItalian »

veteran+ wrote:
rwsandiego wrote:
veteran+ wrote: ...But sadly, I think the trend in California has been moving away from those large footprints.

I am a huge fan of the super big palace size stores and wish they would come back!
You might get your wish. Kroger acquired Roundy's, which owned Mariano's. Built-from-the-ground-up Mariano's are huge. Three of their Chicago locations are two-level due to the limited size of city lots. In the acquisition press release Kroger stated their intent to adopt and adapt Mariano's concepts elsewhere. I can see a Ralph's that looks like a Mariano's in select CA markets.

Personally, I am holding out for one here in San Diego. Should be interesting.
Wow, I would love that!!

I guess I am biased to large format supermarkets. I had hoped that the european hypermarket format would have become extremely popular (it did not).

One of the first markets I managed was a 125,000 square foot store that incorporated Pantry Pride, J.M. Fields and Pride Drugs under one roof (Florida late 1970's, I was very young). For that time, it was huge!

As a shopper, I'm one of the "one stop shop" type. I need to get everything I want in one place with room to buy and a fast check out. Time and efficiency is at play here for me.

I love Trader Joes, I really do, but the parking is always a nightmare and the shopping experience is chaotic, confusing, not easy to navigate (too crowded) and often not a fast checkout (too crowded). Then, of course they don't carry everything I need so another trip somewhere else?
We in Southern California adapted to shopping "around" during the strike. That habit hasn't changed. There is no such thing as one-stop shopping to the Southern California consumer and we like it that way.
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Re: Ralphs Arcadia Closing, Asian market to take place?

Post by storewanderer »

The Ralphs I found with dead space tended to be the lower volume stores and this tended to be something that happened after the strike and after the NorCal exit. Bad examples perhaps but stores I saw in the last 4-5 years that were full of dead space as Ralphs were Glendora, Bermuda Dunes, San Luis Obispo, the low volume stores in a couple cities north of Temecula (at least one now closed), the awful store in Palmdale/Victorville... The NorCal stores were always very fully merchandised. I felt like things fell apart at Ralphs after the strike.
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