Bristol Farms "Newfound Market"

[ClownLoach]

Is a WARN notice necessary if all workers are being offered jobs at other local stores?

Because it's considered a plant closing under the law, they should. And because they employ more than 75 workers in the state, again they should.

However, if they have creatively laid off no more than 50 people in any 30 day period, then they would not have to file. I find that strange.

Also technically if they lay off 50 or more across their combined locations in California in a 30 day period they're supposed to file WARN notices for every location involved even if only one person is being let go. This is a common miss these days; my last company eliminated a role held by 2 people in each location and they had over a hundred locations in California but didn't file WARN which is a violation. Read the EDD website as it all seems to conflict with each other, everything is written like an absolute - the plant closure sounds like an absolute requirement while not filing unless 50 or more in 30 days also sounds absolute.

So the fact that rumors were flying for months about this closure despite no apparent closing activities until now, that might be how they're escaping from WARN. My guess is the rumors stemmed from layoffs as they began to work down the staff in advance of closing. Those being laid off were the source of the social media rumors and some really sketchy Yelp and Google reviews that didn't match operating conditions when I visited. One review said the entire perimeter had closed and store was having a liquidation sale, that wasn't happening at all but staffing looked much lighter than the past; another questioned Yorba Linda and made me suspicious that a reader of this site posted the review because I think I'm the only one who has questioned that store. I have read nothing about any liquidation sale and based on past Bristol Farms closings I don't think there will be much of one as they box up and transfer all the high $$$ items to the other stores.

Clearly they wanted to maintain full operations through the holidays as Bristol Farms aggressively sells catering packages like Thanksgiving dinners and such. If they had publicly announced closure and such they would have lost all that very profitable business.

[storewanderer]

This closure was announced today and there is a pay walled article in the Orange County Register about it. They blame an overall lack of grocery-specific business at the location. I would have to guess that the food court and prepared foods were the most productive part which probably are lower margins due to labor and shrink. It clearly had plenty of foot traffic but not the right grocery specific business in center store, meats etc. They also state that many positive changes and new product lines stemming from tests at Irvine will go chain wide.

The article also specifically goes out of its way to state Yorba Linda is not closing (maybe someone read the speculation we raised here?). I highly doubt Yorba Linda will survive much longer as they've done more to mothball service counters, remove salad bars, and otherwise scale down the operation than was ever done in Irvine. Entire areas of produce are empty floor space after removal of several islands. No other Bristol Farms looks as slow as Yorba Linda, Irvine had far more foot traffic.

I am guessing something/someone else is lined up to take the space.

It will be interesting to see how many employees the WARN listing has.

Still has not been posted on the state website, but the state seems to be behind as I see many businesses that show filing received in November and December but they weren't on the report I downloaded last week. They also had filed for a bunch of separate business licenses, each section of the food hall had its own. The pizza restaurant also had its own. As a result there were health inspection certificates at nearly every counter in the store. If they're going to play that game then theoretically they can get around WARN by laying off 20 here and 30 there and 40 elsewhere etc. keeping it below the 50 person requirement. Many businesses just file for everything even single person layoffs to ensure compliance, but retailers are the notable exception and seem to try to avoid these filings possibly to limit the notice given to their competition and thus limit poaching before they can offer transfers etc. to their best workers they don't want to lose.

I agree there must be something lined up for the space. The Whole Foods across the freeway seems to have all the same problems or worse, it's basically just a lunchtime cafeteria for the office workers in the area. I strongly suspect it will close at the end of its first 10 years lease term. It is very odd that they have built over 10,000 housing units in those few blocks making one of the highest density population neighborhoods in all of California but they can't keep a single grocery store open. At some point the dominant landlord in the area has to figure this problem out and start giving better rents for grocery stores.

This is one of those weird examples where people do not shop near where they live. They must shop during commute.

We see this in random neighborhoods sometimes. It isn't clear why.

Did you ever notice how real foot traffic was at this store? As in, walk in/bike in customers (not driving there)?

[HCal]

This is one of those weird examples where people do not shop near where they live. They must shop during commute.

We see this in random neighborhoods sometimes. It isn't clear why.

I imagine the pricing is a major factor. Bristol Farms' prices are high enough that it is worthwhile to drive elsewhere, and there are plenty of options including Target in the same mall. Locals are being gouged on rent and therefore will try to save anywhere else possible.

[ClownLoach]

I am guessing something/someone else is lined up to take the space.

It will be interesting to see how many employees the WARN listing has.

Still has not been posted on the state website, but the state seems to be behind as I see many businesses that show filing received in November and December but they weren't on the report I downloaded last week. They also had filed for a bunch of separate business licenses, each section of the food hall had its own. The pizza restaurant also had its own. As a result there were health inspection certificates at nearly every counter in the store. If they're going to play that game then theoretically they can get around WARN by laying off 20 here and 30 there and 40 elsewhere etc. keeping it below the 50 person requirement. Many businesses just file for everything even single person layoffs to ensure compliance, but retailers are the notable exception and seem to try to avoid these filings possibly to limit the notice given to their competition and thus limit poaching before they can offer transfers etc. to their best workers they don't want to lose.

I agree there must be something lined up for the space. The Whole Foods across the freeway seems to have all the same problems or worse, it's basically just a lunchtime cafeteria for the office workers in the area. I strongly suspect it will close at the end of its first 10 years lease term. It is very odd that they have built over 10,000 housing units in those few blocks making one of the highest density population neighborhoods in all of California but they can't keep a single grocery store open. At some point the dominant landlord in the area has to figure this problem out and start giving better rents for grocery stores.

This is one of those weird examples where people do not shop near where they live. They must shop during commute.

We see this in random neighborhoods sometimes. It isn't clear why.

Did you ever notice how real foot traffic was at this store? As in, walk in/bike in customers (not driving there)?

Real foot traffic only at lunchtime, and that came from the 4 massive office towers across the street. The rest of the time it's all driving traffic.

It's weird that a local news article says "nobody lives nearby" but it's probably the most population dense neighborhood in South OC with at least 10,000 apartments and a couple thousand more due to break ground any day. I may be under counting by several thousand, off the top of my head I'm realizing it could be closer to 15,000 apartments all across the way along Irvine Center Drive and they're about 99% occupied with few vacancies lasting longer than a week. My apartment was leased a week before my last day and I had a "less desirable" floorplan that was not suitable for "roommates" as the bedrooms were adjacent to each other instead of at opposing ends.

@HCal has it right - it's a price issue due to the overly expensive housing costs throughout the city. Not sure when we will see any official statistics but I have read that Irvine is close to becoming renter majority. And I've always been of the opinion that the local customers are incredibly price conscious. I say they're "platinum card rich, not trust fund rich" as they're high income but also highly indebted which is why they're stuck in rental housing, people who splurge all the time but should instead be saving every penny to get a down payment and buy a house somewhere even if it means another state. Irvine Co Apartments used to lure you in with luxurious apartments at seemingly great lease prices with excellent management, but your rent would skyrocket at lease renewal. Now they don't do any such promotions and are leasing at top of the market pricing while they have closed or outsourced everything from repairs/maintenance to on site security. When I moved in it was a dream, and by the time I moved out it was becoming a nightmare with the PD on site in the complex nearly 24/7 taking reports on auto thefts, apartment break ins etc. Yet demand has never been higher, so as long as people are accepting high rent and bad quality they'll dish up extra helpings of it. My experience in leasing a store however from their retail division was the opposite, got a brand new construction box amongst the lowest rent we paid in all of OC (although charges for common area maintenance pushed up the overall rent expenses, it was still actually a dream working with them as they let me get away with things landlords like Kimco wouldn't). Basically they're overcharging residents on rent and then giving good deals to big box retailers. So I really question if they pushed Bristol Farms out as they would not necessarily be paying the sky high rent one might imagine.

Now here's the weirdness of the thing: the Target apparently overtook two others to become #1 volume in its South OC district after the remodel and parking decks were finished. The Apple Store is just a ways away on the same side in arguably an even worse location and it supposedly overtook South Coast Plaza and Fashion Island as busiest in OC (it is a gorgeous building if you're ever in the area - two walls of solid glass and giant pines around it, doesn't sound like much but it is one of their most iconic stores). The Costco diagonally across the I-5 side is constantly busy but in my observation was huge transaction count but super small basket size, consistent with apartments. And Walmart couldn't make it there despite always being busy. Rite Aid had that beautiful palace of a store with luxe floors, beautiful recessed lighting and more but it was a first wave BK closure. I'm convinced Bristol Farms had split the local business with the already slow Whole Foods across the I-405, and getting that back could save the WFM from closure soon but I doubt it. Nordstrom is dead at all times and Irvine Co has sent multiple resident surveys that if read between the lines were saying "If and when Nordstrom closes what should take its spot?" That WFM box would be perfect for Stater Bros. Not sure what belongs in this Bristol Farms building at this point. And Irvine Company needs to launch a major ad campaign to help people understand that they haven't had a parking shortage for nearly 20 years. There is still a stigma from back in the 90s when this place literally had Disneyland style trams hauling people half a mile to remote parking lots. And for those saying it needs to be an ethnic market - the relatively new Zion nearby just went out of business (although I don't think they're a good operator and the two new H-Mart on the opposite end of town probably killed their business).

Quite the puzzle.