Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

[storewanderer]

I think there was also some confusion with Kroger if they should go into FL with Kroger Marketplace format or go in with Harris Teeter. I would have gone in with a few well placed Kroger Marketplace units and designed them as destination stores that could have done $2 million a week in sales (wouldn't have been very hard to make that happen, people would drive for miles to get to a store other than Publix or Wal Mart in FL that was well priced and brought a better item mix into the market). Of course they'd need fuel stations. Basically handle the expansion in the same way HEB is handling its expansion into Dallas.

Meijer was also talking about expansion into Florida at one point- they might’ve acquired some land sites along the I-75 corridor in Florida.

Meijer also bought a land site in the Twin Cities suburbs (I believe Brooklyn Park) a few years ago. I’d think the Twin Cities, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh will be the next Meijer expansion areas.
I wonder how Meijer would do in Denver though…

I don't think Meijer would do very well in Denver. Target is strong in that market with quite a few Super Targets and Wal Mart also has a pretty noticeable presence. Meijer would be seen as a lower end alternative to Target. Denver was a decent but not great market for Kmart but they closed a number of Super Kmarts in that market in the initial closure wave of the bankruptcy. During that time Target had not yet opened the number of Super Targets yet that they currently have and Wal Mart was just getting going yet Kmart still closed a lot of its Supers in Denver. Meijer is VERY similar to what Super Kmart was in the late 90's/early 00's. If it had problems with less competition, Meijer would have much bigger problems.

Also recall Cub was in Denver- also closed up early 00's. Shopko never quite made it to Denver but was in surrounding areas and also of course did not do well and a lot of those closed long before the chain went under. Something about that upper midwest retail style does not work in Denver.

I don't think Meijer would do well in Denver for a variety of mix reasons also. Hy Vee would have a better shot but to get the necessary mass of stores in the market would be very challenging.

[retailfanmitchell019]

I don't think Meijer would do well in Denver for a variety of mix reasons also. Hy Vee would have a better shot but to get the necessary mass of stores in the market would be very challenging.

As you’ve said before, Meijer would give Giant Eagle a lot of trouble in Pittsburgh… I’d think they will go there next, unless there is a gentleman’s agreement with Giant Eagle (could possibly explain why Giant Eagle isn’t in Michigan, although they were talking about buying Farmer Jack at one point).

[storewanderer]

I don't think Meijer would do well in Denver for a variety of mix reasons also. Hy Vee would have a better shot but to get the necessary mass of stores in the market would be very challenging.

As you’ve said before, Meijer would give Giant Eagle a lot of trouble in Pittsburgh… I’d think they will go there next, unless there is a gentleman’s agreement with Giant Eagle (could possibly explain why Giant Eagle isn’t in Michigan, although they were talking about buying Farmer Jack at one point).

Denver is a really strange market. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Since this is a Publix thread- just throwing it out there- I think Publix would do well in Denver... really of the Hy Vee, Meijer, or Publix options I think Publix is the one who would have the best potential to build up a viable store base and do well in Denver. This would also assume the complete exit of Safeway from Denver, and I'm not sure Publix would do overly well outside Denver metro/suburbs either.

A big reason why I say this for Publix in Denver is due to its store size. There are a lot of empty retail sites around Denver in that 40k square foot range that Publix loves. The King Soopers Stores tend to be quite big and have only gotten bigger. I think there is a place in Denver for a smaller size grocery store that has quality products, a clean store, fast in/out, and a slightly upper middle class environment. Nothing revolutionary but just a solid neighborhood store type of place. Safeway just isn't it... they should be it but they aren't in Denver due to that division's lousy operating standard that pre-dates Albertsons ownership of the chain.

[veteran+]

I don't think Meijer would do well in Denver for a variety of mix reasons also. Hy Vee would have a better shot but to get the necessary mass of stores in the market would be very challenging.

As you’ve said before, Meijer would give Giant Eagle a lot of trouble in Pittsburgh… I’d think they will go there next, unless there is a gentleman’s agreement with Giant Eagle (could possibly explain why Giant Eagle isn’t in Michigan, although they were talking about buying Farmer Jack at one point).

Denver is a really strange market. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Since this is a Publix thread- just throwing it out there- I think Publix would do well in Denver... really of the Hy Vee, Meijer, or Publix options I think Publix is the one who would have the best potential to build up a viable store base and do well in Denver. This would also assume the complete exit of Safeway from Denver, and I'm not sure Publix would do overly well outside Denver metro/suburbs either.

A big reason why I say this for Publix in Denver is due to its store size. There are a lot of empty retail sites around Denver in that 40k square foot range that Publix loves. The King Soopers Stores tend to be quite big and have only gotten bigger. I think there is a place in Denver for a smaller size grocery store that has quality products, a clean store, fast in/out, and a slightly upper middle class environment. Nothing revolutionary but just a solid neighborhood store type of place. Safeway just isn't it... they should be it but they aren't in Denver due to that division's lousy operating standard that pre-dates Albertsons ownership of the chain.

Not really.....................

I don't think Denver is that strange at all. You just need well run and maintained stores, quality foods at good prices and decent customer service.

Publix will not go to Denver in the foreseeable future. Plus their pricing sucks for what you get.

[buckguy]

As you’ve said before, Meijer would give Giant Eagle a lot of trouble in Pittsburgh… I’d think they will go there next, unless there is a gentleman’s agreement with Giant Eagle (could possibly explain why Giant Eagle isn’t in Michigan, although they were talking about buying Farmer Jack at one point).

Denver is a really strange market. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Since this is a Publix thread- just throwing it out there- I think Publix would do well in Denver... really of the Hy Vee, Meijer, or Publix options I think Publix is the one who would have the best potential to build up a viable store base and do well in Denver. This would also assume the complete exit of Safeway from Denver, and I'm not sure Publix would do overly well outside Denver metro/suburbs either.

A big reason why I say this for Publix in Denver is due to its store size. There are a lot of empty retail sites around Denver in that 40k square foot range that Publix loves. The King Soopers Stores tend to be quite big and have only gotten bigger. I think there is a place in Denver for a smaller size grocery store that has quality products, a clean store, fast in/out, and a slightly upper middle class environment. Nothing revolutionary but just a solid neighborhood store type of place. Safeway just isn't it... they should be it but they aren't in Denver due to that division's lousy operating standard that pre-dates Albertsons ownership of the chain.

Not really.....................

I don't think Denver is that strange at all. You just need well run and maintained stores, quality foods at good prices and decent customer service.

Publix will not go to Denver in the foreseeable future. Plus their pricing sucks for what you get.

Publix has expanded in a pretty organic way and would not make a jump that far. They're willing to go into older stores but often make very large investments (including tear downs), so you'd have to consider that cost. Denver has long had a boom/bust economy because it ultimately relies on resource extraction and commodity prices plus it goes in and out of "hipness". Those sorts of things favor a local operator rather than an outsider.

[arizonaguy]

A big reason why I say this for Publix in Denver is due to its store size. There are a lot of empty retail sites around Denver in that 40k square foot range that Publix loves. The King Soopers Stores tend to be quite big and have only gotten bigger. I think there is a place in Denver for a smaller size grocery store that has quality products, a clean store, fast in/out, and a slightly upper middle class environment. Nothing revolutionary but just a solid neighborhood store type of place. Safeway just isn't it... they should be it but they aren't in Denver due to that division's lousy operating standard that pre-dates Albertsons ownership of the chain.

I don't get this.

Safeway is exactly this in Arizona. It's actually the biggest reason I was opposed to the Kroger merger as I like their smaller, clean stores with quality products, fast in/out and the slightly upper middle class environment. It's why Safeway has actually started opening up new stores in Arizona (which are quite nice) since the merger occurred and has done significant renovations to many others.

How Safeway cannot replicate this in Denver I do not understand.

Going back to Publix. I can't see why they couldn't be this in Louisville or Cincinnati.

[storewanderer]

A big reason why I say this for Publix in Denver is due to its store size. There are a lot of empty retail sites around Denver in that 40k square foot range that Publix loves. The King Soopers Stores tend to be quite big and have only gotten bigger. I think there is a place in Denver for a smaller size grocery store that has quality products, a clean store, fast in/out, and a slightly upper middle class environment. Nothing revolutionary but just a solid neighborhood store type of place. Safeway just isn't it... they should be it but they aren't in Denver due to that division's lousy operating standard that pre-dates Albertsons ownership of the chain.

I don't get this.

Safeway is exactly this in Arizona. It's actually the biggest reason I was opposed to the Kroger merger as I like their smaller, clean stores with quality products, fast in/out and the slightly upper middle class environment. It's why Safeway has actually started opening up new stores in Arizona (which are quite nice) since the merger occurred and has done significant renovations to many others.

How Safeway cannot replicate this in Denver I do not understand.

Going back to Publix. I can't see why they couldn't be this in Louisville or Cincinnati.

Denver Safeway is like Bashas around Phoenix... dead stores... lifeless... feel depressing... little traffic... but Denver Safeway has worse prices and worse quality than Bashas around Phoenix.

Because Safeway in Denver keeps getting completely slaughtered by King Soopers, Target, and Wal Mart. This has been going on for 20 years and it hasn't gotten any better. Multiple of the new build stores Safeway tried to put in Denver in the early 2000's have closed/gone out of business. Their stores are significantly lower traffic in Denver than in Phoenix and their perimeters suffer as a result. They may do okay in some of the rural areas (forgetting the odd cluster of stores in the South portion of the state that never got lifestyle remodels and sat with 80's and 90's interiors well into 2020's) and ski towns but that is it.

Safeway has not done any new stores in Denver (except Albertsons conversions) since the merger occurred and their renovations are done extremely cheaply in that market, if done at all.

Safeway has had major operational quality issues in Denver that long pre-date Albertsons. They are in a pathetic spot. There are improvements in the quality of their ads/pricing under Albertsons but the quality of the operation is very poor. The attitude in the stores is poor. They just do not seem to care. They feel like they barely hang on. There are some locations that are nicer/feel more like a CA Safeway in terms of operational quality and obviously have more traffic, but around metro Denver there seem to be very few of those (more out in the rural areas).

Maybe reading the comments to how people react to the merger being blocked- all just from today- will help give some insight as to the perception of Safeway in the Denver market: I guess a couple people posted positive comments but a lot more posted negative ones.

~ttps://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/1b0odk ... ns_merger/

[arizonaguy]

A big reason why I say this for Publix in Denver is due to its store size. There are a lot of empty retail sites around Denver in that 40k square foot range that Publix loves. The King Soopers Stores tend to be quite big and have only gotten bigger. I think there is a place in Denver for a smaller size grocery store that has quality products, a clean store, fast in/out, and a slightly upper middle class environment. Nothing revolutionary but just a solid neighborhood store type of place. Safeway just isn't it... they should be it but they aren't in Denver due to that division's lousy operating standard that pre-dates Albertsons ownership of the chain.

I don't get this.

Safeway is exactly this in Arizona. It's actually the biggest reason I was opposed to the Kroger merger as I like their smaller, clean stores with quality products, fast in/out and the slightly upper middle class environment. It's why Safeway has actually started opening up new stores in Arizona (which are quite nice) since the merger occurred and has done significant renovations to many others.

How Safeway cannot replicate this in Denver I do not understand.

Going back to Publix. I can't see why they couldn't be this in Louisville or Cincinnati.

Denver Safeway is like Bashas around Phoenix... dead stores... lifeless... feel depressing... little traffic... but Denver Safeway has worse prices and worse quality than Bashas around Phoenix.

Because Safeway in Denver keeps getting completely slaughtered by King Soopers, Target, and Wal Mart. This has been going on for 20 years and it hasn't gotten any better. Multiple of the new build stores Safeway tried to put in Denver in the early 2000's have closed/gone out of business. Their stores are significantly lower traffic in Denver than in Phoenix and their perimeters suffer as a result. They may do okay in some of the rural areas (forgetting the odd cluster of stores in the South portion of the state that never got lifestyle remodels and sat with 80's and 90's interiors well into 2020's) and ski towns but that is it.

Safeway has not done any new stores in Denver (except Albertsons conversions) since the merger occurred and their renovations are done extremely cheaply in that market, if done at all.

Safeway has had major operational quality issues in Denver that long pre-date Albertsons. They are in a pathetic spot. There are improvements in the quality of their ads/pricing under Albertsons but the quality of the operation is very poor. The attitude in the stores is poor. They just do not seem to care. They feel like they barely hang on. There are some locations that are nicer/feel more like a CA Safeway in terms of operational quality and obviously have more traffic, but around metro Denver there seem to be very few of those (more out in the rural areas).

Maybe reading the comments to how people react to the merger being blocked- all just from today- will help give some insight as to the perception of Safeway in the Denver market: I guess a couple people posted positive comments but a lot more posted negative ones.

~ttps://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/1b0odk ... ns_merger/

It seems that at some point pre-merger Safeway in Denver and Safeway in Phoenix were lumped into the same category of underperforming divisions. Since the merger though Safeway in Arizona seems to be on the upswing (multiple new stores, extensive renovations, improved traffic) but the Safeway in Denver described seems a lot like early 2010s Safeway Phoenix.

I also think on the opposite end of the spectrum that King Soopers runs a significantly better operation than Fry's. After spending some time in Las Vegas last week I'd also argue Smith's in Las Vegas also runs a better operation than Fry's. Fry's has never really impressed me (other than their early 2010s pricing which was quite good) but Fry's has been in a decline almost in the same way that Safeway has been ascending in Phoenix.

A lot of the "success" that Fry's has is that they have a de-factor monopoly in a lot of established areas of Phoenix by virtue of the 1998 Fry's / Smith's / Smitty's (Fred Meyer Marketplace) merger an the lack of divestment of a lot of the overlapping stores. They really haven't had to work as hard as elsewhere as they've essentially had a store in every viable location (with the exception of Scottsdale) since the late 1990s.

[storewanderer]

It seems that at some point pre-merger Safeway in Denver and Safeway in Phoenix were lumped into the same category of underperforming divisions. Since the merger though Safeway in Arizona seems to be on the upswing (multiple new stores, extensive renovations, improved traffic) but the Safeway in Denver described seems a lot like early 2010s Safeway Phoenix.

I also think on the opposite end of the spectrum that King Soopers runs a significantly better operation than Fry's. After spending some time in Las Vegas last week I'd also argue Smith's in Las Vegas also runs a better operation than Fry's. Fry's has never really impressed me (other than their early 2010s pricing which was quite good) but Fry's has been in a decline almost in the same way that Safeway has been ascending in Phoenix.

A lot of the "success" that Fry's has is that they have a de-factor monopoly in a lot of established areas of Phoenix by virtue of the 1998 Fry's / Smith's / Smitty's (Fred Meyer Marketplace) merger an the lack of divestment of a lot of the overlapping stores. They really haven't had to work as hard as elsewhere as they've essentially had a store in every viable location (with the exception of Scottsdale) since the late 1990s.

There have been a lot of improvements in performance with Safeway Phoenix due to a significant number of Albertsons LLC people being involved in the operation. They started with the stronger ads, better in-store execution, what appear to me to be better staffing levels, and just in general are running a significantly better store than Safeway ran in Arizona in say 2010-2011 period.

The reason Safeway in Arizona was looked at as not performing well in the 2000's was due to a large number of newer stores that were either built too soon, built too close to a Frys and/or Wal Mart, and too high of pricing during the period when Safeway ran CA pricing in AZ which was completely inappropriate for the market.

Denver is a more complex situation. Operationally a lot of not so nice stores, older stores, C grade shopping centers, low standards for operations. I remember in the late 2000's going to multiple Safeways in NW Denver Suburbs and finding brown meat. One thing I never saw in Safeways out west regardless how low volume they were was brown meat. But this was an issue in Denver and at multiple stores. In more recent years going to Safeways in Denver Division I have encountered too many instances of expired products for sale; again, this is not a typical occurrence for Safeway, yet at that division for some reason this is a problem (lack of customers... wrong mix... wrong prices... employees who don't care...).

Fry's was great when Jon Flora was the division president. I don't know who runs it now but it is not very good and hasn't been good for a while. The newer Marketplace Stores are very nice and some stores are executed well but it seems difficult to find a Fry's that is not "sloppy." And now with their pricing not being as strong as it once was, this is kind of an issue. I still see very busy stores with Fry's in Phoenix though.

I agree with you that Smiths seems to have higher operating standards than Fry's at the present time. I think Smiths also has higher operating standards than Ralphs. The Las Vegas Stores look very good. There is still a lot of pressure on at Smiths to maintain store standards and it is important to note the current Division President of Smiths is a veteran Smiths person from pre-Kroger, that may be the only Kroger Division that is run by a veteran from the same division at this point. I think that is very important. But I see sloppy operations locally at Smiths too; a couple store locations in particular have had challenges for quite some time now and fixing has gone very slow; this is similar to what I see at the rest of Kroger in just sloppiness in unmaintained departments, abandoned stocking projects, sloppy looking fresh departments; then some days I see excellent operations at Smiths locally; it is strange.

[jamcool]

How do the Safeways in the Colorado Mountain towns do compared to Denver? I suspect that is the cash cow for that division, (the way smaller towns are for Safeway in AZ.) The only major rival in those mountain towns is City Market-whose stores are very different from partner King Soopers.