JoAnn-"restructuring"

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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: January 26th, 2024, 9:02 pm Joann keeps chugging along... They just relocated a clunky old store in Laguna Hills, and reopened in a beautiful former Ralphs Fresh Fare in Laguna Niguel. Beautiful location that surely cost a fortune.
I wonder if they brought any of the fixtures from the ~10 year old store they just closed in Livermore over there...

Interesting to see Dublin lose Hobby Lobby and Livermore lose Jo Ann at around the same time... stores are a ways apart but it is generally considered sort of the same market.

Reno must have one of the most trashed Jo Ann Stores in the chain- the flooring is starting to come up, old shelves, bad lighting, feels like a 70's Kmart in there, smells like one too. Since that is what it is, the old Kmart Foods building. Despite this, this is a busy store. The one in Carson City is in an old dead mall with similar flooring/lighting/old building odor throughout the mall. I'm surprised the one in Carson City even generates enough sales to cover payroll.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by Alpha8472 »

There is a Joann store in a shopping center across the street from the Hobby Lobby in Dublin. That store is updated to the latest decor and is very nice. It takes up half of a former Circuit City. The Sprouts next door still has the classic Circuit City Plug as the entrance.

I prefer the atmosphere at Joann to the Hobby Lobby. Joann is clean and well kept. The store is very large and has a good selection.

Hobby Lobby was totally randomly organized with no signs at all. You couldn't find anything that you needed. It was such a difficult place to navigate.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by storewanderer »

Alpha8472 wrote: January 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm There is a Joann store in a shopping center across the street from the Hobby Lobby in Dublin. That store is updated to the latest decor and is very nice. It takes up half of a former Circuit City. The Sprouts next door still has the classic Circuit City Plug as the entrance.

I prefer the atmosphere at Joann to the Hobby Lobby. Joann is clean and well kept. The store is very large and has a good selection.

Hobby Lobby was totally randomly organized with no signs at all. You couldn't find anything that you needed. It was such a difficult place to navigate.
Hobby Lobby is also clean and well kept. Their store in Reno doesn't look any worse than the Jo Ann location nearby.

Hobby Lobby and its successful expansion is a big reason why Jo Ann is failing and on the brink of restructure. I think of Jo Ann being like Kmart as Wal Mart kept expanding. Sure they tried new things, put some nice stores out there like the Super Kmarts, etc., but at the end of the day the chain was full of old outdated depressing stores in the wrong locations and considered to have a lesser product mix at higher prices. This is how Jo Ann seems to be too. Hobby Lobby has larger stores with a better mix of products in better locations just like Wal Mart did. However Hobby Lobby has some major handicaps such as not being open Sunday and lousy technology which you would think would give it issues competing.

It is more impressive Hobby Lobby has been able to basically push Jo Ann to the brink with its lousy technology, disorganized stores, closed Sunday, and other controversies surrounding their chain. This really shows how poorly managed of an organization Jo Ann has been over the years.

At this point I think Jo Ann and Michaels should consider a merger. The two stores have a cross of customers but both sell different things. A thoughtfully done merger that could convert the store base to a "best of both" type format that would be very productive sales-wise seems like it may be the best path forward for these chains. If they could do that and get high volumes out of their smaller boxes (and take customers from Hobby Lobby with its oversized stores) it could severely cripple Hobby Lobby.

I thought Michaels was doing fine as it was but it appears in the past couple years things there have gotten problematic and they are in need of a reset.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: January 27th, 2024, 6:17 pm
Alpha8472 wrote: January 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm There is a Joann store in a shopping center across the street from the Hobby Lobby in Dublin. That store is updated to the latest decor and is very nice. It takes up half of a former Circuit City. The Sprouts next door still has the classic Circuit City Plug as the entrance.

I prefer the atmosphere at Joann to the Hobby Lobby. Joann is clean and well kept. The store is very large and has a good selection.

Hobby Lobby was totally randomly organized with no signs at all. You couldn't find anything that you needed. It was such a difficult place to navigate.
It is more impressive Hobby Lobby has been able to basically push Jo Ann to the brink with its lousy technology, disorganized stores, closed Sunday, and other controversies surrounding their chain. This really shows how poorly managed of an organization Jo Ann has been over the years.

At this point I think Jo Ann and Michaels should consider a merger. The two stores have a cross of customers but both sell different things. A thoughtfully done merger that could convert the store base to a "best of both" type format that would be very productive sales-wise seems like it may be the best path forward for these chains. If they could do that and get high volumes out of their smaller boxes (and take customers from Hobby Lobby with its oversized stores) it could severely cripple Hobby Lobby.

I thought Michaels was doing fine as it was but it appears in the past couple years things there have gotten problematic and they are in need of a reset.
I agree completely that Apollo needs to acquire JoAnn and merge it into Michaels. However, several former JoAnn people were brought into Michaels executive team along with a bunch of Walmart people and I think that combination plus the cost cutting pressure of Apollo created what is being described on Michaels reddit groups as a toxic work environment. Michaels has definitely deteriorated since being taken private, with an ongoing program to take them to a Five Below type all-self checkout model and skeleton crew staffing of only one manager and a worker at all times.

JoAnn as I've said before has all the makings of the right "best of both worlds" store in their new format, which is totally different from any other they've tried to roll out in the past, but their crappy old stores outnumber these new ones probably 50 to 1. With limited funding they're never going to dig out of that hole, and if they don't get every store to that new format fast they won't be able to compete. That new format could easily be used to revamp the stale Michaels format as well; they have opened it in at least one former Michaels that I'm aware of. Both brands have categories that are superior to the other; Michaels seasonal and decor has run circles around Joann forever for example. But Michaels has added fabric to hundreds of stores in a subpar effort, they could easily replace that with the Joann product and process and be better off.

I don't think either Joann or Michaels in their current forms survive another decade, and I do think there are significant synergies if they merge and more importantly receive the right investments to roll out a "best of both" format chainwide. My guess is they'd use the Michaels name but then brand the fabric area as Joann.

If such a merger was not done correctly however then it would have all the success of the failed Office Depot-OfficeMax merger... Or maybe Sears-Kmart. They would really need to clean house in upper management and bring in a experienced team who could integrate the two very different brands, cultures, etc. and construct a fully funded plan to unify the two companies within a year or two.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by storewanderer »

A Michaels-JoAnn merger needs money. I would probably do co-branding of the stores, a literal "combo store." I think they could do very well. Both chains have a lot of good programs and loyal customers who shop both stores anyway. Combining the best of both into a combo would lower overhead, make it easier for customers, make logistics easier, I see little downside to this strategy beyond that it would result in some empty boxes.

If they took the Office Depot-Office Max approach where let's say the buying party was Michaels and they decided to say okay, here we are, we have taken over JoAnn. We have no money to do anything much here. So what we will do is we will just completely kill the JoAnn format (as Office Max was killed) but change nothing cosmetically inside the stores, and we will not change the name, and we will merchandise the store like a Michaels. So now there will be these two stores JoAnn and Michaels that are 1/2 mile apart and people used to visit both and buy different items, now both have the exact same items and customers are upset and only visit one to shop so there is a lot of revenue loss. That would be a failure.

I think back in the 90's or early 00's the two chains could have pulled this merger off better than today. There were some culture similarities in the past but I think with what has happened at Michaels plus the ongoing financial struggles of JoAnn both cultures are damaged in recent years. The way you connect with customers in both chains is similar. You can do classes etc. to engage customers which both chains have done in the past, different themes for the classes at each chain, for instance, but same general idea to inspire the customer into projects that will generate additional sales/engage the customer and fun for employees at the same time. There were also more regional chains left in the 90's or 00's. There were still more of those Ben Franklin chains around, Hancock Fabrics was still in business...

I also wonder how an operator model would work for these chains Michaels and JoAnn. Specifically JoAnn. Similar to how Ace Hardware works. I guess that is what Ben Franklin was... and that is almost gone... so maybe I just answered my own question.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: January 30th, 2024, 12:25 am A Michaels-JoAnn merger needs money. I would probably do co-branding of the stores, a literal "combo store." I think they could do very well. Both chains have a lot of good programs and loyal customers who shop both stores anyway. Combining the best of both into a combo would lower overhead, make it easier for customers, make logistics easier, I see little downside to this strategy beyond that it would result in some empty boxes.

If they took the Office Depot-Office Max approach where let's say the buying party was Michaels and they decided to say okay, here we are, we have taken over JoAnn. We have no money to do anything much here. So what we will do is we will just completely kill the JoAnn format (as Office Max was killed) but change nothing cosmetically inside the stores, and we will not change the name, and we will merchandise the store like a Michaels. So now there will be these two stores JoAnn and Michaels that are 1/2 mile apart and people used to visit both and buy different items, now both have the exact same items and customers are upset and only visit one to shop so there is a lot of revenue loss. That would be a failure.

I think back in the 90's or early 00's the two chains could have pulled this merger off better than today. There were some culture similarities in the past but I think with what has happened at Michaels plus the ongoing financial struggles of JoAnn both cultures are damaged in recent years. The way you connect with customers in both chains is similar. You can do classes etc. to engage customers which both chains have done in the past, different themes for the classes at each chain, for instance, but same general idea to inspire the customer into projects that will generate additional sales/engage the customer and fun for employees at the same time. There were also more regional chains left in the 90's or 00's. There were still more of those Ben Franklin chains around, Hancock Fabrics was still in business...

I also wonder how an operator model would work for these chains Michaels and JoAnn. Specifically JoAnn. Similar to how Ace Hardware works. I guess that is what Ben Franklin was... and that is almost gone... so maybe I just answered my own question.
I think an operator model for Joann could work in a unique way. Michaels originated as Ben Franklin and broke away, and seems to be heavily geared towards a Walmart or CVS type operation now.

The problems are different.

Michaels suffered a talent exodus under new ownership of Apollo. They lost many vendors in the transition and appear to have a very disgruntled employee base. They had one store attempt to unionize last year and the reddit folks indicate that the company employed enough union busting behavior to influence a tied vote (meaning the union lost, as they had to get half plus one). The stores have become stale and product quality appears to have seriously declined on house brand items since the transition. Michaels has a very inconsistent fleet of stores in size, format, layout, decor, etc. but somehow has been able to try to breathe a bit of consistency into the chain through planograms and other tactics. Although I've seen some pretty old and dingy Michaels, none are as bad as the everyday average Joann. And they're owned by deep pocket Apollo who could invest if they wanted to.

Joann is seemingly forever short on capital and stuck with a fleet almost entirely comprised of the wrong buildings. Most are small, dingy, Kmart-esque facilities 40+ years old that need to be put out of their misery. Then they also have a cluster of too-large megastores that they can't take care of, those are 60K+ Sq ft which is larger than Hobby Lobby and all need to be closed or split and subleased (which is costly). And then they have 10% or less of their stores that opened under a completely new prototype between 2020 and 2024 which are the right size about 25-35K, right layout, right assortment, basically the perfect store. But they have no credible path to move from 10% to 100% of the stores matching that new prototype.

The only way it works as I see it is a deal to sell the brand, handful of go-forward stores that are all the new format, and intellectual property to Apollo, and then a licensing agreement to a newly created and minimally funded operating company that will take all the old stores and basically run itself into the ground in two years or so. Apollo then takes those IP and assets and combines them into their Michaels organization and funds a remodel campaign to create that consistent "best of both" Michaels branded store "with JoAnn inside," which is basically that new JoAnn prototype with the best of either chains merchandise by department. As customers become used to JoAnn being inside their shiny remodeled Michaels, the standalone JoAnn stores will basically sunset themselves in a bankruptcy. They still net closing most of the JoAnn chain and maybe a handful of Michaels where their facilities might be inferior. It's doable and I think when it's done Apollo would have a valuable entity in the new Michaels-JoAnn company that they could IPO profitably.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by ClownLoach »

Alpha8472 wrote: January 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm There is a Joann store in a shopping center across the street from the Hobby Lobby in Dublin. That store is updated to the latest decor and is very nice. It takes up half of a former Circuit City. The Sprouts next door still has the classic Circuit City Plug as the entrance.

I prefer the atmosphere at Joann to the Hobby Lobby. Joann is clean and well kept. The store is very large and has a good selection. The only stores they seem to be able to maintain are the new builds, and I think they give them more payroll than old stores to help keep them up.

Hobby Lobby was totally randomly organized with no signs at all. You couldn't find anything that you needed. It was such a difficult place to navigate.
Must be a well run Joann, because usually their store standards are somewhere near Ross or Goodwill when it comes to recovery and organization.

Hobby Lobby operates with intentional confusion. They do not want you to find the one item you came in for. They want you to wander the store and fill an entire cart with other items. It's a dinosaur concept and although it might work short term, it will eventually perish as more customers realize that it's much easier to order fabric glue on their Amazon app than get lost in their deliberate maze of unlabeled aisles that are intentionally moved around every three months or so. But their stores are always meticulously cleaned and recovered. I have heard horror stories about upper management literally shining a laser down the aisle and if a single box is not faced (so it breaks the beam) then the manager is written up or fired for poor store conditions. They typically work all store managers 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by storewanderer »

Went to Michaels and actually bought something- used their self checkout. What a weird self checkout. I don't know what system that is but I've never seen it before. I guess it did the job but when I scanned the item which was on sale it popped up a big image of it at full price and I thought I had a scan error but then after I scanned another item and then it moved to showing a list of items scanned everything showed at the correct prices, then, it was really weird when I was ready to pay and bypassed whatever stuff they asked about loyalty or something that I wasn't interested in, it took about 10 seconds to activate the pinpad for some reason. The receipt that printed out looked nothing like a typical Michaels receipt but maybe the weird/tiny font threw me off.

Store probably had a 90% in stock rate and noticeably fewer actual quantities on hand of product than I recall from the past. Like a lot of items only had 3-4 units of product on the shelf that in the past would have had 8 units. This is not necessarily a problem as long as they replenish. But a 90% in stock rate is also lower than I recall in the past.

I saw 3 employees in the store early afternoon today. One cashier and 2 on sales floor.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: February 25th, 2024, 10:26 pm Went to Michaels and actually bought something- used their self checkout. What a weird self checkout. I don't know what system that is but I've never seen it before. I guess it did the job but when I scanned the item which was on sale it popped up a big image of it at full price and I thought I had a scan error but then after I scanned another item and then it moved to showing a list of items scanned everything showed at the correct prices, then, it was really weird when I was ready to pay and bypassed whatever stuff they asked about loyalty or something that I wasn't interested in, it took about 10 seconds to activate the pinpad for some reason. The receipt that printed out looked nothing like a typical Michaels receipt but maybe the weird/tiny font threw me off.

Store probably had a 90% in stock rate and noticeably fewer actual quantities on hand of product than I recall from the past. Like a lot of items only had 3-4 units of product on the shelf that in the past would have had 8 units. This is not necessarily a problem as long as they replenish. But a 90% in stock rate is also lower than I recall in the past.

I saw 3 employees in the store early afternoon today. One cashier and 2 on sales floor.
They used to be the best in their industry segment for in stock rate. They would rarely be out of stock. Now they appear to be in the 80% range in busy stores, and 90% max in slower stores. But if you buy the last of an item and expect to see more later that week, it rarely happens. It seems to be taking them two or three weeks to get back in stock. Apparently they are shipping from as far as Florida and somewhere else on the East Coast to reduce their inventory ownership. That may free up cash, but it also costs them sales. And the self checkout makes the problems worse. Their employees are not supervising well, and many customers don't understand retail. So they think that if they are buying a dozen different colors of paint and they are all 99¢ they can just scan one twelve times. But now the inventory level will be short on 11 out of those 12 items. You can see how this could quickly deplete the store inventory, interfere with pickup and ship from store orders and so on. Self checkout does not belong in complicated stores like this.
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Re: JoAnn-"restructuring"

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: February 26th, 2024, 12:44 pm

They used to be the best in their industry segment for in stock rate. They would rarely be out of stock. Now they appear to be in the 80% range in busy stores, and 90% max in slower stores. But if you buy the last of an item and expect to see more later that week, it rarely happens. It seems to be taking them two or three weeks to get back in stock. Apparently they are shipping from as far as Florida and somewhere else on the East Coast to reduce their inventory ownership. That may free up cash, but it also costs them sales. And the self checkout makes the problems worse. Their employees are not supervising well, and many customers don't understand retail. So they think that if they are buying a dozen different colors of paint and they are all 99¢ they can just scan one twelve times. But now the inventory level will be short on 11 out of those 12 items. You can see how this could quickly deplete the store inventory, interfere with pickup and ship from store orders and so on. Self checkout does not belong in complicated stores like this.
I am sure the store I visited is lower volume.

The way the self checkout is positioned the employee can't really supervise. They had one long counter and basically 3 or 4 self checkouts and 2 registers. So the cashier was behind 1 register and if she wasn't helping customers there she was doing something on a nearby aisle. Never watching the self checkouts, basically as if they didn't exist.

The configuration of the self checkout did not have the typical "scan item, bag item" model that most self checkouts have so I could see customers easily scanning the wrong item too many times then throwing all of them into a bag. It just allowed scan scan scan scan.

I think they can make self checkout work but they need to spend the money to turn the counter around so the bagging area is "below" the scanner and the instruction is to scan item, bag item... I could see they just used the old cashier counter and saw the bagging area there facing where the cashier would stand. I am not sure I've ever seen a self checkout before that had this odd set up where the bags are sitting on a rack next to the self checkout but just as high as the self checkout machine so the customer has to lift every item up into the bag (as opposed to dropping it into the bag after scanning).

These self checkouts are a copy of what I've seen at Wal Mart (they've ripped these units out near me) and Rite Aid with a very small unit and scanner/printer right below the screen. I really like these self checkouts for small purchases but this configuration needs work.

They could also cause the self checkout to lock up if someone scans the same item too many times. They could even program in the limitation on specific problem SKUs like the paints. I've seen that done at some grocery stores on produce PLUs. Enter PLU 4011 4 times in a transaction and it'll lock up.
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