SHRINK

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storewanderer
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Re: SHRINK

Post by storewanderer »

storewanderer wrote: November 13th, 2023, 9:49 am Anyone know if any if what is being said about Target policies for processing shoplifters is true?

Process outside in the rain? Can't the sheriff take them to the sheriff station or jail for processing if Target doesn't have space for that at the store?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/cali ... ifters.amp
So this is in Sacramento it appears based on this article.
The one posted to Safeway thread.

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news ... ail-theft/
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Re: SHRINK

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: November 13th, 2023, 9:49 am Anyone know if any if what is being said about Target policies for processing shoplifters is true?

Process outside in the rain? Can't the sheriff take them to the sheriff station or jail for processing if Target doesn't have space for that at the store?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/cali ... ifters.amp
If it is true, it is further evidence that retailers don't really care about shoplifting. Addressing shoplifting is secondary to maintaining perceptions. Target would rather let shoplifters off than allow customers to see deputies processing suspects on premises.
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Re: SHRINK

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:55 pm
storewanderer wrote: November 13th, 2023, 9:49 am Anyone know if any if what is being said about Target policies for processing shoplifters is true?

Process outside in the rain? Can't the sheriff take them to the sheriff station or jail for processing if Target doesn't have space for that at the store?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/cali ... ifters.amp
If it is true, it is further evidence that retailers don't really care about shoplifting. Addressing shoplifting is secondary to maintaining perceptions. Target would rather let shoplifters off than allow customers to see deputies processing suspects on premises.
Your statement "retailers don't really care about shoplifting." I am confused. The article describes Safeway who is doing the opposite of what Target is doing when it comes to what this local law enforcement official is saying. So are you saying neither retailer really cares about shoplifting? Because my perception from the article is Safeway seems to care about it, but Target does not. However in reality knowing Target, knowing about their forensics lab, knowing how they build cases against shoplifters and press charges once the losses get to felony level, I know they really do care about shoplifting.

There seem to be a lot of mixed messages going on.

I am a little confused that Target appeared to desire the local law enforcement to do catches and processing of what appear to be "one time" shoplifters. Typically in the past Target's thing was to build a case and then press charges. They would identify the shoplifter, find out where they live, etc., not catch them at the store.
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Re: SHRINK

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 12:34 am
HCal wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:55 pm
storewanderer wrote: November 13th, 2023, 9:49 am Anyone know if any if what is being said about Target policies for processing shoplifters is true?

Process outside in the rain? Can't the sheriff take them to the sheriff station or jail for processing if Target doesn't have space for that at the store?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/cali ... ifters.amp
If it is true, it is further evidence that retailers don't really care about shoplifting. Addressing shoplifting is secondary to maintaining perceptions. Target would rather let shoplifters off than allow customers to see deputies processing suspects on premises.
Your statement "retailers don't really care about shoplifting." I am confused. The article describes Safeway who is doing the opposite of what Target is doing when it comes to what this local law enforcement official is saying. So are you saying neither retailer really cares about shoplifting? Because my perception from the article is Safeway seems to care about it, but Target does not. However in reality knowing Target, knowing about their forensics lab, knowing how they build cases against shoplifters and press charges once the losses get to felony level, I know they really do care about shoplifting.

There seem to be a lot of mixed messages going on.

I am a little confused that Target appeared to desire the local law enforcement to do catches and processing of what appear to be "one time" shoplifters. Typically in the past Target's thing was to build a case and then press charges. They would identify the shoplifter, find out where they live, etc., not catch them at the store.
No, Target has a long history of using undercover Assets Protection dept. Employees to apprehend shoplifters. Not just the big cases worked out of the forensics office. That's why the stores have the apprehension rooms. Those apprehension teams are what the big forensics lab was built off as they started to recognize the organized crime aspect. They were one of the originators of the entire concept of ORC and grew the classic Store Detectives into the most sophisticated Assets Protection department in all of retail with their own crime labs and giant special AP offices all over the country.

The crime labs and forensics departments are one of the reasons why they are not afraid to perform apprehensions as they can work in tune with an off-site investigator who is remotely monitoring the situation on video and thus becomes a witness who can testify plus "fill in the gaps" where needed in the standards for apprehension (must see entrance without product, must see selection of product, must see concealment, must have constant and uninterrupted visual to ensure that they don't dump the product, must make it past the last possible point of payment which technically is the Guest Services counter at single entrance stores, and only then can a stop be made. Unfortunately the thieves know that a false detention is a winning lottery ticket and they will intentionally try to game the AP folks if they perceive they've been spotted so they'll ditch the items very carefully hoping to be arrested and then they will have their slimeball lawyers calling in seconds to try to extort a fortune for unlawful detention and false arrest. The Target forensics team means that the undercover agent is never "alone" and thus they can make arrests that others can't, plus they have spent millions on proprietary software that can easily automate the creation of the outrageous amounts of paperwork today's police demand before they'll even acknowledge the filing of a case.

Obviously if anyone is interpreting that Target doesn't care about theft and shoplifting then they're misunderstanding because I don't think anyone outside of Las Vegas Casinos run the level of actively supervised surveillance Target does at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars each year, and remember that outside of California (actually they're sneaking it into CA stores like Garden Grove too) they've got those full RFID testbed stores that track every unit of merchandise and can literally overlay a camera image with what merchandise is traveling in sight. It's like X-ray vision into the coat or purse or whatever the shoplifter is using to conceal. It's instantly comparing the items in the cart or bag to what was rung up on the register as the purchase goes out the door.

I really think something is amiss with that Sacramento case and there are details missing like the offices being moved from front to back and a remodel underway, Target is still working on wrapping up remodels all over before Thanksgiving right now. Locally they're doing exactly what Safeway is being credited with doing, partnering with the local PD and their detectives to crack down on shoplifting and making it as publicly known as is legally possible in California. Since California no longer allows for pictures of suspects to be published before arraignment (if at all), I wonder if there was a severe misinterpretation of this law up there? Maybe they felt that it would somehow be illegal if the suspect was seen publicly and recorded? There are details missing around the exact situation, and clearly not the usual and customary Target procedures.
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Re: SHRINK

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 12:34 am
HCal wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:55 pm
storewanderer wrote: November 13th, 2023, 9:49 am Anyone know if any if what is being said about Target policies for processing shoplifters is true?

Process outside in the rain? Can't the sheriff take them to the sheriff station or jail for processing if Target doesn't have space for that at the store?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/cali ... ifters.amp
If it is true, it is further evidence that retailers don't really care about shoplifting. Addressing shoplifting is secondary to maintaining perceptions. Target would rather let shoplifters off than allow customers to see deputies processing suspects on premises.
Your statement "retailers don't really care about shoplifting." I am confused. The article describes Safeway who is doing the opposite of what Target is doing when it comes to what this local law enforcement official is saying. So are you saying neither retailer really cares about shoplifting? Because my perception from the article is Safeway seems to care about it, but Target does not. However in reality knowing Target, knowing about their forensics lab, knowing how they build cases against shoplifters and press charges once the losses get to felony level, I know they really do care about shoplifting.

There seem to be a lot of mixed messages going on.

I am a little confused that Target appeared to desire the local law enforcement to do catches and processing of what appear to be "one time" shoplifters. Typically in the past Target's thing was to build a case and then press charges. They would identify the shoplifter, find out where they live, etc., not catch them at the store.
Where does the article mention Safeway? Maybe I'm missing it, but I just saw it talk about Target.

There is definitely a lot of mixed messaging going on. I guess that is to be expected, as obviously different companies will have different priorities and take different approaches.
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Re: SHRINK

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: November 15th, 2023, 1:14 am
storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 12:34 am
HCal wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:55 pm

If it is true, it is further evidence that retailers don't really care about shoplifting. Addressing shoplifting is secondary to maintaining perceptions. Target would rather let shoplifters off than allow customers to see deputies processing suspects on premises.
Your statement "retailers don't really care about shoplifting." I am confused. The article describes Safeway who is doing the opposite of what Target is doing when it comes to what this local law enforcement official is saying. So are you saying neither retailer really cares about shoplifting? Because my perception from the article is Safeway seems to care about it, but Target does not. However in reality knowing Target, knowing about their forensics lab, knowing how they build cases against shoplifters and press charges once the losses get to felony level, I know they really do care about shoplifting.

There seem to be a lot of mixed messages going on.

I am a little confused that Target appeared to desire the local law enforcement to do catches and processing of what appear to be "one time" shoplifters. Typically in the past Target's thing was to build a case and then press charges. They would identify the shoplifter, find out where they live, etc., not catch them at the store.
Where does the article mention Safeway? Maybe I'm missing it, but I just saw it talk about Target.

There is definitely a lot of mixed messaging going on. I guess that is to be expected, as obviously different companies will have different priorities and take different approaches.
See the post above from yesterday. This is the second half of the story.
cbsnews link
Also Sacramento
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Re: SHRINK

Post by veteran+ »

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Re: SHRINK

Post by ClownLoach »

veteran+ wrote: November 25th, 2023, 8:00 am https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-buy ... WeWjVKSdQB

Exactly!
Well, except for the fact that they changed their entire strategy and format. They had moved to a zero lock up program years ago, every laptop computer box, camera, etc. was customer accessible. They put all the cages back, lockups back, and put backroom storage back. Now they're remodeling stores and expanding the backrooms even further so they take up a quarter to a third of the building and adding pickup counters as they recreate the late, famous electronics industry leader in shrink, Circuit City who secured everything and fired managers for getting over 0.40% shrink (I am dead serious). I should mention that the backroom model is actually a labor savings too, less planograms to set, less labor to stock sales floors. Just a handful of people unload the trucks and put all the boxes into their pallet racking where they're not touched again until they're sold. No need for daily restocking of the sales floor and recovery processes and such. Usually just one person in the warehouse, and if they need help loading a big box they page an available floor worker to help.

So maybe Best Buy had the foresight to predict the shrink problems today and secure themselves against it? Because there is absolutely no resemblance between what Best Buy looked like in the early and mid 2010s versus today from a security perspective. They've locked down the stores like a bank vault and just keep adding security.

And they've already closed 15% of the chain, nearly all of the closures being in higher shrink areas.

The reason they added workers is because they slashed so many last year and this year that they were losing sales to Amazon and Costco because they were so bare bones that they had a wait for hours to just get a cashier to ring up a TV that's in the back room. So they forced the customer to buy online which usually translated to no sales of the high profit cables, warranties, mounts, installation services, etc. that are the only thing that keeps the store open since the margins on the electronics themselves are less than 5% while the add ons are 90% profit.

They didn't add staff to prevent shrink. They are also finishing the process of fully outsourcing their entire delivery department as well as Geek Squad service and installation businesses to 3rd parties. So basically they've slashed staffing more than ever this year.

They are so reckless and incompetent at the C-suite that they have executed the same layoff programs of all their best salespeople three times in the last decade. Circuit City did it once and they are still in business school textbooks over it. Best Buy keeps repeating the same staffing and business model mistakes, expecting a different result every time.

They need to offer Hubert Joly a "blank check" to return and save the company, again. Unlike Howard Schultz and Starbucks, Joly's services are so desperately needed to right the ship that I could see the liquidation of this $50 billion a year company occurring in the next 5 to 10 years. They have an overreactive C-suite that makes massive scale changes to every aspect of the business model every few months or years in an effort to portray their worth to Wall Street who unfortunately doesn't have any other national competitor to compare them to. Massive, expensive and costly changes do not work in a low margin business dependent on offsetting loss leaders with high profit add-ons.

Really misleading article.
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Re: SHRINK

Post by ClownLoach »

ClownLoach wrote: November 15th, 2023, 12:44 am
storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 12:34 am
HCal wrote: November 14th, 2023, 11:55 pm

If it is true, it is further evidence that retailers don't really care about shoplifting. Addressing shoplifting is secondary to maintaining perceptions. Target would rather let shoplifters off than allow customers to see deputies processing suspects on premises.
Your statement "retailers don't really care about shoplifting." I am confused. The article describes Safeway who is doing the opposite of what Target is doing when it comes to what this local law enforcement official is saying. So are you saying neither retailer really cares about shoplifting? Because my perception from the article is Safeway seems to care about it, but Target does not. However in reality knowing Target, knowing about their forensics lab, knowing how they build cases against shoplifters and press charges once the losses get to felony level, I know they really do care about shoplifting.

There seem to be a lot of mixed messages going on.

I am a little confused that Target appeared to desire the local law enforcement to do catches and processing of what appear to be "one time" shoplifters. Typically in the past Target's thing was to build a case and then press charges. They would identify the shoplifter, find out where they live, etc., not catch them at the store.
No, Target has a long history of using undercover Assets Protection dept. Employees to apprehend shoplifters. Not just the big cases worked out of the forensics office. That's why the stores have the apprehension rooms. Those apprehension teams are what the big forensics lab was built off as they started to recognize the organized crime aspect. They were one of the originators of the entire concept of ORC and grew the classic Store Detectives into the most sophisticated Assets Protection department in all of retail with their own crime labs and giant special AP offices all over the country.

The crime labs and forensics departments are one of the reasons why they are not afraid to perform apprehensions as they can work in tune with an off-site investigator who is remotely monitoring the situation on video and thus becomes a witness who can testify plus "fill in the gaps" where needed in the standards for apprehension (must see entrance without product, must see selection of product, must see concealment, must have constant and uninterrupted visual to ensure that they don't dump the product, must make it past the last possible point of payment which technically is the Guest Services counter at single entrance stores, and only then can a stop be made. Unfortunately the thieves know that a false detention is a winning lottery ticket and they will intentionally try to game the AP folks if they perceive they've been spotted so they'll ditch the items very carefully hoping to be arrested and then they will have their slimeball lawyers calling in seconds to try to extort a fortune for unlawful detention and false arrest. The Target forensics team means that the undercover agent is never "alone" and thus they can make arrests that others can't, plus they have spent millions on proprietary software that can easily automate the creation of the outrageous amounts of paperwork today's police demand before they'll even acknowledge the filing of a case.

Obviously if anyone is interpreting that Target doesn't care about theft and shoplifting then they're misunderstanding because I don't think anyone outside of Las Vegas Casinos run the level of actively supervised surveillance Target does at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars each year, and remember that outside of California (actually they're sneaking it into CA stores like Garden Grove too) they've got those full RFID testbed stores that track every unit of merchandise and can literally overlay a camera image with what merchandise is traveling in sight. It's like X-ray vision into the coat or purse or whatever the shoplifter is using to conceal. It's instantly comparing the items in the cart or bag to what was rung up on the register as the purchase goes out the door.

I really think something is amiss with that Sacramento case and there are details missing like the offices being moved from front to back and a remodel underway, Target is still working on wrapping up remodels all over before Thanksgiving right now. Locally they're doing exactly what Safeway is being credited with doing, partnering with the local PD and their detectives to crack down on shoplifting and making it as publicly known as is legally possible in California. Since California no longer allows for pictures of suspects to be published before arraignment (if at all), I wonder if there was a severe misinterpretation of this law up there? Maybe they felt that it would somehow be illegal if the suspect was seen publicly and recorded? There are details missing around the exact situation, and clearly not the usual and customary Target procedures.
I was in a SuperTarget location earlier this week and they still had the apprehension room available at the front and I saw a uniformed AP employee lurking in the doorway probably waiting to make an apprehension of a thief being tailed by undercover agents. This particular store was featured by the local police department on their Facebook page again this last week as they helped Target AP apprehend shoplifters in the store. So here Target is happily arresting shoplifters, doing it up front, and even allowing and encouraging the police to publicize the arrests. Clearly there is no corporate mandate to hide this activity.

From a logistics of arrest perspective, that front end office would handle all of the police booking process. No need to go to the back here because this particular location did not convert the break room and offices up front to Drive Up storage, instead they walled off a large portion of the front left corner of the store where they have housewares and furniture to create the storage space. As a result, they also have an unique setup for Target where the Guest Services counter does not handle order pickups, and a separate pickup only counter is over by the left entrance. I'm going to assume this was a more expensive way to set things up, which is why many of the Super and Greatland formats went to the cheaper moving all offices and break room to the warehouse area, then using their front end space for pickup storage. Of course there are still a few that use café seating as storage but those are low volume e-commerce stores.
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Re: SHRINK

Post by veteran+ »

ClownLoach wrote: November 25th, 2023, 12:23 pm
veteran+ wrote: November 25th, 2023, 8:00 am https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-buy ... WeWjVKSdQB

Exactly!
Well, except for the fact that they changed their entire strategy and format. They had moved to a zero lock up program years ago, every laptop computer box, camera, etc. was customer accessible. They put all the cages back, lockups back, and put backroom storage back. Now they're remodeling stores and expanding the backrooms even further so they take up a quarter to a third of the building and adding pickup counters as they recreate the late, famous electronics industry leader in shrink, Circuit City who secured everything and fired managers for getting over 0.40% shrink (I am dead serious). I should mention that the backroom model is actually a labor savings too, less planograms to set, less labor to stock sales floors. Just a handful of people unload the trucks and put all the boxes into their pallet racking where they're not touched again until they're sold. No need for daily restocking of the sales floor and recovery processes and such. Usually just one person in the warehouse, and if they need help loading a big box they page an available floor worker to help.

So maybe Best Buy had the foresight to predict the shrink problems today and secure themselves against it? Because there is absolutely no resemblance between what Best Buy looked like in the early and mid 2010s versus today from a security perspective. They've locked down the stores like a bank vault and just keep adding security.

And they've already closed 15% of the chain, nearly all of the closures being in higher shrink areas.

The reason they added workers is because they slashed so many last year and this year that they were losing sales to Amazon and Costco because they were so bare bones that they had a wait for hours to just get a cashier to ring up a TV that's in the back room. So they forced the customer to buy online which usually translated to no sales of the high profit cables, warranties, mounts, installation services, etc. that are the only thing that keeps the store open since the margins on the electronics themselves are less than 5% while the add ons are 90% profit.

They didn't add staff to prevent shrink. They are also finishing the process of fully outsourcing their entire delivery department as well as Geek Squad service and installation businesses to 3rd parties. So basically they've slashed staffing more than ever this year.

They are so reckless and incompetent at the C-suite that they have executed the same layoff programs of all their best salespeople three times in the last decade. Circuit City did it once and they are still in business school textbooks over it. Best Buy keeps repeating the same staffing and business model mistakes, expecting a different result every time.

They need to offer Hubert Joly a "blank check" to return and save the company, again. Unlike Howard Schultz and Starbucks, Joly's services are so desperately needed to right the ship that I could see the liquidation of this $50 billion a year company occurring in the next 5 to 10 years. They have an overreactive C-suite that makes massive scale changes to every aspect of the business model every few months or years in an effort to portray their worth to Wall Street who unfortunately doesn't have any other national competitor to compare them to. Massive, expensive and costly changes do not work in a low margin business dependent on offsetting loss leaders with high profit add-ons.

Really misleading article.
Thank you for clarifying.

I was most interested in the more "customer service reducing shrink" narrative which I very much believe in.

;)
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