Safeway San Francisco closing Webster

[HCal]

I think this Westwood Ralphs is successful only because of the unique circumstances created by UCLA.

UCLA is one of the few large universities that, for the most part, doesn't allow undergraduates to bring cars to campus. The surrounding apartments don't have a lot of parking, and might provide one parking spot for every 4 or 5 students. Therefore, there are tens of thousands of students living in the neighborhood who have no choice but to get groceries on foot. Ralphs is the default option, as the other options (Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Target) are more expensive or have limited selection. This creates a captive market that doesn't really exist anywhere else, even in very densely populated neighborhoods.

Back to the topic of this thread, I don't think similar circumstances exist for any Safeway store, or any store in California. Most universities are much smaller, not in such dense areas, and allow students to have cars.

[storewanderer]

I get what you are saying, but........

"So this is where the California real estate cost, land use, NIMBY, and other issues come into play. There may be a number of densely populated areas around Los Angeles, San Francisco specifically where a 93k square foot large format type Kroger Store would work, but between high real estate cost, land use restrictions, citizens who would fight over the development of such a huge store, it just won't and doesn't happen."

All of the above are applicable to this Westwood neighborhood if not more. Residents are not only very litigious but disagree about almost everything. They are quite the deliberative bunch and believe that they are attorneys of the highest degree. Not to mention this is high value real estate.

According to California's over reported and hyperbolized BAD reputation against the Angels in the Business world, this store should not exist nor be successful.

This is a case where Ralphs was able to make the large store happen since the space became available. Kroger allowed for flexibility in things like store design/layout (the odd angle), lack of a fuel center (typically required for any new store they open, with a very few exceptions like downtown Phoenix and downtown Denver), and I suspect space allocation on food vs. non food.

You have this store and the La Jolla Ralphs both large format and both seem to do very high sales volume...

I don't think the neighbors in Westwood had much say about it when Ralphs decided to expand into the available space. Plus maybe there were other retailers proposing taking the space that could have been worse for the image of the neighborhood or something.

What can be hoped for is they figure out ways to slip in more of these large stores in places where the space is available and there is enough population to support it. Like you say, they have proven it can work.

Numerous large WinCo and Wal Mart Stores throughout California are successful. Major fights any time one tries to be built. These exist and are successful in California too.

[storewanderer]

I think this Westwood Ralphs is successful only because of the unique circumstances created by UCLA.

UCLA is one of the few large universities that, for the most part, doesn't allow undergraduates to bring cars to campus. The surrounding apartments don't have a lot of parking, and might provide one parking spot for every 4 or 5 students. Therefore, there are tens of thousands of students living in the neighborhood who have no choice but to get groceries on foot. Ralphs is the default option, as the other options (Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Target) are more expensive or have limited selection. This creates a captive market that doesn't really exist anywhere else, even in very densely populated neighborhoods.

Back to the topic of this thread, I don't think similar circumstances exist for any Safeway store, or any store in California. Most universities are much smaller, not in such dense areas, and allow students to have cars.

I think UCLA Enrollment is somewhere over 40k students and they are about 60% living on campus/40% living off campus. Ballpark numbers. So this is definitely a big thing for the store, but how many college students do major grocery shopping? Many do not even have facilities to cook food. Many purchase meal plans with tuition so a lot of their food will be from the food service on campus. I think in general college students are small ticket customers for a grocery store. Maybe liquor sales tip the scale up but a significant chunk of college students are not of legal age to buy liquor so that crosses a lot of them out from that sales potential.

Raleys has tried to lure college students into its stores located nearby with student discounts, 10% off with Student ID. They do this with one store in Reno and a couple other places. Safeway tried to copy the program also in Reno with a store a little further away. From what I am seeing these discounts did nothing to draw in new customers, they just gave a discount to some existing customers who saw the advertisements. College students seem to prefer shopping at Wal Mart (I see them in big packs there). Target is too far away for routine shopping, but Target is where you will see them with their parents doing big shops for their dorms/apartments during move in week.

So where I am going with this is while I think the UCLA situation helps the store, I think there are other situations elsewhere in the state that could help a large store in a similar way. For instance previously (NOT anymore) in San Francisco in/near Union Square a store of this size (with some different assortment/allocations) would have been very viable due to the transit hubs, constant tourist/office worker population, etc. Probably nowhere else in NorCal. I suspect there are other spots throughout SoCal as well.

[HCal]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

[veteran+]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

Good question!

The claim was top 5 stores in the Company but did not qualify type.

[veteran+]

"I don't think the neighbors in Westwood had much say about it when Ralphs decided to expand into the available space. Plus maybe there were other retailers proposing taking the space that could have been worse for the image of the neighborhood or something."

Oh, they did have a lot to say!

So many meetings, so many opinions, so many experts.

[veteran+]

I think this Westwood Ralphs is successful only because of the unique circumstances created by UCLA.

UCLA is one of the few large universities that, for the most part, doesn't allow undergraduates to bring cars to campus. The surrounding apartments don't have a lot of parking, and might provide one parking spot for every 4 or 5 students. Therefore, there are tens of thousands of students living in the neighborhood who have no choice but to get groceries on foot. Ralphs is the default option, as the other options (Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Target) are more expensive or have limited selection. This creates a captive market that doesn't really exist anywhere else, even in very densely populated neighborhoods.

Back to the topic of this thread, I don't think similar circumstances exist for any Safeway store, or any store in California. Most universities are much smaller, not in such dense areas, and allow students to have cars.

I am sure that the UCLA situation significantly contributes to this store's success BUT..................this neighborhood is dense and rich. When I'm in the store I see Huge baskets full and also hand baskets full. I see servants with 2 shopping carts full, students with hand baskets, young and old couples shopping and filling those carts as well.

No matter what time of day this store is humming! Oh, and the Pharmacy is very busy!!!!

[ClownLoach]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

Good question!

The claim was top 5 stores in the Company but did not qualify type.

At one point I believe this store had 60+ registers (combination of many self checkout and ample regular due to high beer sales which require full service registers in California), and they were pretty much all in use. Store is far busier and more crowded than any Fred Meyer I've visited. I definitely could see the Top 5 in the entire Kroger company claim being valid.

La Jolla was the #2 Ralphs and in the top 25 of all of Kroger but I am wondering if that has fallen off with the damage that store has taken from the train station and problems it brought; the sudden influx of homeless roaming the aisles and harassing customers at what was once possibly one of the most upscale stores Kroger operated has seriously harmed the business there and forced the "down scaling" of the assortment, lockup cages etc.

[storewanderer]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

The reality is Fred Meyer is not selling much electronics, jewelry, or other general merchandise anymore. It is taking a lot of space but sales are not very high. Lots of dollars tied up in inventory. The vast vast majority of their sales are food...

They aren't doing Wal Mart or even Target levels of general merchandise sales anymore or even close. The general merchandise operation of Fred Meyer would not be able to sustain itself/stand alone if it weren't for the high food volume occurring. Meijer appears to be in a similar position to me, at least in IL, but I think Meijer has less dollars tied up in general merchandise inventory.

[bryceleinan]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

The reality is Fred Meyer is not selling much electronics, jewelry, or other general merchandise anymore. It is taking a lot of space but sales are not very high. Lots of dollars tied up in inventory. The vast vast majority of their sales are food...

They aren't doing Wal Mart or even Target levels of general merchandise sales anymore or even close. The general merchandise operation of Fred Meyer would not be able to sustain itself/stand alone if it weren't for the high food volume occurring. Meijer appears to be in a similar position to me, at least in IL, but I think Meijer has less dollars tied up in general merchandise inventory.

@storewanderer - I have oftern heard that the Dayton Smith's is in the top 10 of Kroger, especially pharmacy. Any truth to that? At one point, I heard they were beating some of the largest Fred Meyer stores.