Safeway San Francisco closing Webster

[storewanderer]

It seems like Kroger is really running Ralphs at a level below the other divisions for some reason. This really makes me wonder why they want Safeway, and more California Stores, given how they have their California Stores Ralphs running poorly compared to the rest of Kroger, higher price scale, etc.

Cala/Bell failed, Ralphs Norcal expansion failed. Foodsco is okay but too small to matter. Kroger has simply never had any luck in Norcal.

Acquiring the dominant grocer is probably the only way they can get into the market.

Actually Cala/Bell and Ralphs NorCal were not really run by Kroger. Yes Kroger owned them but back then Kroger was much more decentralized. Those stores were barely even converted over to Kroger's private label program when they closed. When those stores were around, they were still run by Ralphs. Ralphs was doing its own thing. The Ralphs format back then was MUCH different than the present day Ralphs format is. Ralphs ran a cleaner, more upscale, shiny, well organized store with higher quality perishables and zero clutter. But prices were a lot higher and promotion strategy was different. The Cala/Bell Stores were undersized, extremely high priced (had higher prices than the normal Ralphs did, and there was no reason for this pricing), ran small weak ads (higher ad retails than a normal Ralphs too), and didn't have the best service.

Kroger didn't put much money into Cala/Bell at all. They did some major remodels in San Francisco. Cala/Bell was actually highly profitable in San Francisco, the Marin County Stores were breaking even or marginally profitable. Kroger did not spend one dime on Cala/Bell outside San Francisco.

I actually think the current Kroger Ralphs format probably would have survived in NorCal, because it is more price competitive, and tighter on labor/expenses than the old Ralphs was. There is a place in NorCal for a competitively priced conventional supermarket. It should be Save Mart but their pricing is terrible- I think it is worse than Safeway or Raleys at this point. That doesn't really exist in NorCal. You have to downgrade to a Food Maxx, WinCo, Wal Mart, or Target for competitive prices in NorCal.

The bigger question is why does Kroger want to get into NorCal? It is not a growing market for a conventional unless some competitor in the market goes under. The ethnic make up of the market and wealth of the market has fueled alternative formats; primarily of the Asian and Whole Foods/Trader Joe's variety. But the discount operators while they are few and far between are also extremely productive in NorCal.

[veteran+]

Yeah...................it's NOT okay.

That hour crap is a joke. That is not the way to do it.

There was a specially designed thermometor to check surface and interior temperatures. Perhaps there is a new technology for this exigent task.

That is the way you do it and you have to check often depending on the environment.

I carried one with me all the time and the clerks were required to have one on them as well when working frozen or refrigerated products. If they did not, they were written up real quick! I mean, we are talking about potentially someone's life.

[veteran+]

That Ralphs Fresh Fare on Le Conte in Westwood is 55,000 sqft.

The talk back then was for an update to 90,000sqft.

I have been there many times and there is no way that store is 90,000.

Unless my spatial skills are gone?

[ClownLoach]

That Ralphs Fresh Fare on Le Conte in Westwood is 55,000 sqft.

The talk back then was for an update to 90,000sqft.

I have been there many times and there is no way that store is 90,000.

Unless my spatial skills are gone?

They say 93K. I feel like this was Kroger's first and last experiment of expanding a Ralphs to similar size as a big Kroger store. My hunch is that it didn't deliver enough of a return since the costs of construction in California are so high.

I also think there is an excess of logistics and backroom type space in this store which reduces the sales floor more than usual.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 41139.html

[veteran+]

That Ralphs Fresh Fare on Le Conte in Westwood is 55,000 sqft.

The talk back then was for an update to 90,000sqft.

I have been there many times and there is no way that store is 90,000.

Unless my spatial skills are gone?

They say 93K. I feel like this was Kroger's first and last experiment of expanding a Ralphs to similar size as a big Kroger store. My hunch is that it didn't deliver enough of a return since the costs of construction in California are so high.

I also think there is an excess of logistics and backroom type space in this store which reduces the sales floor more than usual.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 41139.html

Wow, it does not feel that big.

I'm gonna have to do a detailed visit.

Perhaps the low ceiling warped my perspective.

[storewanderer]

That Ralphs Fresh Fare on Le Conte in Westwood is 55,000 sqft.

The talk back then was for an update to 90,000sqft.

I have been there many times and there is no way that store is 90,000.

Unless my spatial skills are gone?

They say 93K. I feel like this was Kroger's first and last experiment of expanding a Ralphs to similar size as a big Kroger store. My hunch is that it didn't deliver enough of a return since the costs of construction in California are so high.

I also think there is an excess of logistics and backroom type space in this store which reduces the sales floor more than usual.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 41139.html

Wow, it does not feel that big.

I'm gonna have to do a detailed visit.

Perhaps the low ceiling warped my perspective.

They must have blown a lot of space with the added service departments and things like wide aisles (but they didn't seem very wide to me?). Maybe the low ceiling is the problem. Or the layout.

I thought the store was about 65k square feet walking through it.

[veteran+]

I will report as soon as I'm in that area!

I have spoken to the Store Manager several times.

[veteran+]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Side note:

So clearly Kroger knows how to operate very large footprints in an uber dense City/Neighborhood. And of course all of those "awful" and famous California anti business practices and restrictions and taxes, etc., etc., etc., while enjoying a profitable, successful, well maintained and better than average reviewed store.

IMHO....................Kroger and Albertsons and other historical "big chains" just do not want to operate these LARGE stores in Los Angeles for fear of having success stories like THIS STORE

[storewanderer]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Side note:

So clearly Kroger knows how to operate very large footprints in an uber dense City/Neighborhood. And of course all of those "awful" and famous California anti business practices and restrictions and taxes, etc., etc., etc., while enjoying a profitable, successful, well maintained and better than average reviewed store.

IMHO....................Kroger and Albertsons and other historical "big chains" just do not want to operate these LARGE stores in Los Angeles for fear of having success stories like THIS STORE

I may be wrong but I think this Safeway closing in San Francisco is also the largest of their stores in that city at 50,000 square feet. Granted they have a huge store down in South San Francisco (former Kmart, then Pak N Save, now Safeway) that does very high volume and also are building another 63k square foot store in South San Francisco.

But still these size ranges are a lot different than 93k square feet...

It seems well documented that large full service/fullish priced supermarkets in suburban type locations in SoCal never perform too well. Smiths, Lucky/Sav-On, the larger model Pavilions all come to mind. I think this specific Ralphs has the population density in the surrounding area to make the 93k square feet size work.

So this is where the California real estate cost, land use, NIMBY, and other issues come into play. There may be a number of densely populated areas around Los Angeles, San Francisco specifically where a 93k square foot large format type Kroger Store would work, but between high real estate cost, land use restrictions, citizens who would fight over the development of such a huge store, it just won't and doesn't happen.

In an ideal world the customers would WANT that 93k square foot store in their neighborhood. They would understand a large store like that is better for the neighborhood, reduces traffic (fewer people stopping at 5 different places to do their shopping gets them off the road faster), reduces number of stops, provides greater employment to the neighborhood, and is actually an efficient use of the space. Also one of my favorite arguments whenever someone tries to do a store in San Francisco is the matter of the delivery trucks. They hate the noisy delivery trucks, restrict what hours they can show up, restrict how they shine their headlights as they back in the loading dock, etc. What these foolish types don't understand is their little 30k square foot store has so little back room space that the truck has to show up more often and deliver fewer pallets of product; with a 93k square foot store the big bad delivery truck shows up but empties out dozens of pallets all in one trip then moves on and doesn't have to come back for a couple days. But there are too many activist types in CA and certain other large cities who have been programmed to fight this type of development and have been programmed to hate big stores, big corporations, etc. They will not listen to anything, their mind is made.

It goes back to a discussion we've previously had here as to why NYC will approve big stores like this and people embrace them there. It is just how it is. It would be nice if the attitude would change out in CA. But it won't. If anything it will only get worse.

[veteran+]

I get what you are saying, but........

"So this is where the California real estate cost, land use, NIMBY, and other issues come into play. There may be a number of densely populated areas around Los Angeles, San Francisco specifically where a 93k square foot large format type Kroger Store would work, but between high real estate cost, land use restrictions, citizens who would fight over the development of such a huge store, it just won't and doesn't happen."

All of the above are applicable to this Westwood neighborhood if not more. Residents are not only very litigious but disagree about almost everything. They are quite the deliberative bunch and believe that they are attorneys of the highest degree. Not to mention this is high value real estate.

According to California's over reported and hyperbolized BAD reputation against the Angels in the Business world, this store should not exist nor be successful.