Here come the price increases!

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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: April 11th, 2024, 10:13 am

I think you start doing the Tommy's Burgers thing. First 59 are Tommy's. Next 59 are Tommi's. Next 59 are Tomy's. Next 59 are Tommy's Plus. Next are Tommy's (in small print below "By Tom's") And so on... Cook up the paperwork so they're separate.

I don't think anyone would necessarily want to get around the law over the wages. Everyone is going to have to pay that much due to the competition for labor. It's the lack of control and not knowing what kind of BS is coming next as they start to try to change work rules. At least the owners have seats on that "Fast Food Council" and they're going to be able to start showing the uneducated, illiterate fry cooks and such that were appointed to the board that their actions have led to XX thousand lost jobs, X thousand closures and bankruptcies of small business family owners, and most importantly that the big corporations they thought they were standing up against are doing just fine. But then these are the same people who probably supported the Senate candidate that wanted a $50 minimum wage, so we can implement the new $10, $20, and $30 Dollar Menu... You tell these people that the restaurant makes low single digit profits, if at all, and they just think that there's some magic hidden Fort Knox vault in there somewhere with fantastical amounts of profits and it just can't be true that once the employees, vendors, lenders, rent etc. is paid there's basically little to nothing left. I just read somewhere that a "good profit" for a restaurant after everyone is paid is about $50K per MILLION in revenue, but few owners/operators are good enough to even make that much. Let that sink in...
I am just not sure the customers will take Tommy's, Tommi's, Tomy's .. seriously. I feel like some may try this but they are destined to be low volume operations.

$50k bottom line profit per million in revenue sounds about right. It is very variable though and sometimes that is not the entire picture. With some of these concepts the franchisee will own the real estate under a separate LLC from the restaurants and lease it back to the LLC that owns the restaurant. Of course lease expense was recorded to expense to get to that $50k bottom line profit but in the rather UNCOMMON CASE (emphasis here before someone assumes all the franchisees do this; FEW do and the few who do only typically do it on a LIMITED NUMBER OF THEIR STORES) lease revenue going to an LLC controlled by the franchisee is the other side of the story. Even better in the case of one burger franchisee in my area who owns multiple of the buildings free and clear so the whole thing is straight profit. Questionable for another who has ownership of a building but it is a more recent purchase and the price paid was a little high in my opinion. And if you have a low volume unit that only does around $600k as part of your "package" that you are basically stuck operating due to a franchise contract/lease, that unit may well lose $50k a year and even if you profit from leasing it to yourself it is not an optimal arrangement, but canceling the contract or even not renewing it at the 10 year mark when it comes due risks losing your standing with the franchisor in the market.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by ClownLoach »

Story today reporting some fast food franchises are losing money now, planning further cut backs and automation.

https://abcnews.go.com/food/story/calif ... =109741431
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: April 29th, 2024, 5:16 pm Story today reporting some fast food franchises are losing money now, planning further cut backs and automation.

https://abcnews.go.com/food/story/calif ... =109741431
El Pollo Loco has its own issues to address. I'm not surprised they're having issues now. That brand has made a series of poor decisions.

How is Chickfila doing? They were one of the most aggressive on price increase percentage in CA due to Fast Act and personally I think they went too far on price. But their locations still look busy...

I just keep seeing this model of no counter staffing and a manager trying to handle it and drive through... various chains... see it more in NorCal than SoCal. Everything runs better in SoCal though.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: April 30th, 2024, 9:14 am How is Chickfila doing? They were one of the most aggressive on price increase percentage in CA due to Fast Act and personally I think they went too far on price. But their locations still look busy...
Seems not surprising that they would have more impact, if they run them similarly to the ones in this area, just due to more people involved.

Stopped at one (they opened a few months back in this area) - one person taking orders at the counter, another delivering the food to those eating in at the table. Someone else around cleaning tables and such.

Outside, two people standing there taking orders from cars at drive thru (which didn't even have two cars at some points, of course it was like 2:30 in the afternoon so not exactly a time you'd expect to be busy), and then had to be at least one or more at the actual windows.

So, that's at least 3 extra people (since most fast food places don't have a delivery person, if they even do that, and don't have people taking orders outside at the drive thru) over most other chains, and could be more at a busier time of day.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: April 30th, 2024, 9:14 am
ClownLoach wrote: April 29th, 2024, 5:16 pm Story today reporting some fast food franchises are losing money now, planning further cut backs and automation.

https://abcnews.go.com/food/story/calif ... =109741431
El Pollo Loco has its own issues to address. I'm not surprised they're having issues now. That brand has made a series of poor decisions.

How is Chickfila doing? They were one of the most aggressive on price increase percentage in CA due to Fast Act and personally I think they went too far on price. But their locations still look busy...

I just keep seeing this model of no counter staffing and a manager trying to handle it and drive through... various chains... see it more in NorCal than SoCal. Everything runs better in SoCal though.
Went to a brand new Chick-fil-A today that is only a couple weeks old and it was pretty slow. Thing is, it opened in a location where it is the 2nd in town and splits the traffic from a very old store that I'd guess is about 20 years old now and in need of a revamp. That old location used to be insane busy, but last two times I visited it was also mysteriously dead. At first I thought it had to do with the new location, but now seeing the new location hasn't taken off yet (access is poor due to ongoing construction) I have to chalk it up to the price increases. $3.99 for a large fry which is smaller than it used to be, and $3.99 for a large soda. And today they had just eliminated the Styrofoam type cup which was recyclable and replaced it with a weird new plastic coated double paper cup which is unlikely to be recyclable in most communities. The price adjustment is too much, $6.49 for a plain sandwich and $7.29 for a plain spicy? Does hot pepper mix really add 80 cents to the price? Deluxe adds $1.20 now for lettuce, tomato and one slice of cheese.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by ClownLoach »

Krispy Kreme tonight. Good lord.

$19.99 for a original dozen.
$23.99 for a assorted dozen.
$24.99 for a specialty dozen.

Prices no longer on the screen for most individual items on the menu, but I ordered one new Kit Kat doughnut and an original dozen. I happened to be in because I got an offer for a no strings attached free dozen original. That one meager Kit Kat doughnut was $3.09 and probably weighs less than two ounces.

I thought immediately, wow, this went up $5 a dozen. Then I thought that couldn't possibly be right. Looked back a few months when I ordered a dozen original and sure enough it was $15.49.

Why is Krispy Kreme part of the minimum wage change?

The store is so packed with doughnut carts it is crazy, they have now added a third delivery truck. The store is only about 6 months old I think?
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: April 30th, 2024, 9:33 pm Krispy Kreme tonight. Good lord.

$19.99 for a original dozen.
$23.99 for a assorted dozen.
$24.99 for a specialty dozen.

Prices no longer on the screen for most individual items on the menu, but I ordered one new Kit Kat doughnut and an original dozen. I happened to be in because I got an offer for a no strings attached free dozen original. That one meager Kit Kat doughnut was $3.09 and probably weighs less than two ounces.

I thought immediately, wow, this went up $5 a dozen. Then I thought that couldn't possibly be right. Looked back a few months when I ordered a dozen original and sure enough it was $15.49.

Why is Krispy Kreme part of the minimum wage change?

The store is so packed with doughnut carts it is crazy, they have now added a third delivery truck. The store is only about 6 months old I think?
That's not so bad for the Kit Kat Donut. It is 2.89 in the Nevada locations run by franchisee WKS.

I don't understand why they are under the new fast food rules either. Are you sure they are even paying the $20/hr and going to be governed by the fast food council? Maybe they just increased the prices because they can.

In Nevada donuts are not taxable at donut shops. It is still this way at independent bakeries, grocery store bakeries, etc. And historically Krispy Kreme did not collect sales tax on donuts in Nevada either. But for whatever reason a couple years ago WKS decided to start collecting sales tax in Nevada on all transactions (drive through and take out too). Accurately to follow state law, what probably needed to happen was a "hot" donut was taxable but a room temperature donut was not taxable. But rather than do that they decided to just screw the customer and tax 100% of donuts. If you buy Krispy Kreme at a gas station or grocery store it is not taxable in Nevada as those merchants actually understand the sales tax rules and don't want to screw their customers.

So I get the feeling Krispy Kreme just likes to screw customers out of as much money as possible. This is why they charge sales tax on room temperature donuts in Nevada, charge you $19.99 for a dozen of glazed donuts in CA, have a retail price of 2.49 PER DONUT at Ralphs in CA which is still cheaper than their shops charge, etc.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: April 30th, 2024, 11:59 pm
ClownLoach wrote: April 30th, 2024, 9:33 pm Krispy Kreme tonight. Good lord.

$19.99 for a original dozen.
$23.99 for a assorted dozen.
$24.99 for a specialty dozen.

Prices no longer on the screen for most individual items on the menu, but I ordered one new Kit Kat doughnut and an original dozen. I happened to be in because I got an offer for a no strings attached free dozen original. That one meager Kit Kat doughnut was $3.09 and probably weighs less than two ounces.

I thought immediately, wow, this went up $5 a dozen. Then I thought that couldn't possibly be right. Looked back a few months when I ordered a dozen original and sure enough it was $15.49.

Why is Krispy Kreme part of the minimum wage change?

The store is so packed with doughnut carts it is crazy, they have now added a third delivery truck. The store is only about 6 months old I think?
That's not so bad for the Kit Kat Donut. It is 2.89 in the Nevada locations run by franchisee WKS.

I don't understand why they are under the new fast food rules either. Are you sure they are even paying the $20/hr and going to be governed by the fast food council? Maybe they just increased the prices because they can.

In Nevada donuts are not taxable at donut shops. It is still this way at independent bakeries, grocery store bakeries, etc. And historically Krispy Kreme did not collect sales tax on donuts in Nevada either. But for whatever reason a couple years ago WKS decided to start collecting sales tax in Nevada on all transactions (drive through and take out too). Accurately to follow state law, what probably needed to happen was a "hot" donut was taxable but a room temperature donut was not taxable. But rather than do that they decided to just screw the customer and tax 100% of donuts. If you buy Krispy Kreme at a gas station or grocery store it is not taxable in Nevada as those merchants actually understand the sales tax rules and don't want to screw their customers.

So I get the feeling Krispy Kreme just likes to screw customers out of as much money as possible. This is why they charge sales tax on room temperature donuts in Nevada, charge you $19.99 for a dozen of glazed donuts in CA, have a retail price of 2.49 PER DONUT at Ralphs in CA which is still cheaper than their shops charge, etc.
There was a posting on the counter for some overnight position that was paying $20.25 an hour, posting was on a 3rd party website not the actual KK website (typical of franchises lately, seeing weird addresses especially Taco Bell like "Apply at ABCTacoBellsCA.com"). So that makes me assume they're paying the $20.

And their loyalty program handing out free food might be part of the problem then. I'm only showing up when they have an offer. Last night it was totally free one dozen no strings attached. So I got my free dozen, one KitKat to try it. Then my wife got a dozen on her account to take to work. So that's $43.09 discounted to $3.09. Not a recipe for profitability. Maybe just charge a fair price every day?

The other thing is that whatever oil, mix and sugar coating they use these days is not the same as when they first started opening in California. The "hot" doughnuts, which I watched them pull off the line, are basically cold by the time you pay and hit the door. Heat retention worse than bad French fries. We all know the French fry industry has been working for decades on alterations to frozen French fries to make them stay hot and crispy longer. Somehow Krispy Kreme has gone in reverse. So yes they're lighter than air still and have the right taste, but you still have to microwave them a few seconds at home now. The heat retention used to be 10 minutes or more, now it's 30 seconds maybe. I think this is also why they no longer hand out free doughnuts off the line for free to customers as they're ordering as a sample (since really their cost is probably two cents), because whatever they buy will not be as good as the free sample.

Also interestingly the store opened with kiosks but I've never seen them used, and never seen more than one working while the others have offline errors.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 1st, 2024, 8:43 am
storewanderer wrote: April 30th, 2024, 11:59 pm
ClownLoach wrote: April 30th, 2024, 9:33 pm Krispy Kreme tonight. Good lord.

$19.99 for a original dozen.
$23.99 for a assorted dozen.
$24.99 for a specialty dozen.

Prices no longer on the screen for most individual items on the menu, but I ordered one new Kit Kat doughnut and an original dozen. I happened to be in because I got an offer for a no strings attached free dozen original. That one meager Kit Kat doughnut was $3.09 and probably weighs less than two ounces.

I thought immediately, wow, this went up $5 a dozen. Then I thought that couldn't possibly be right. Looked back a few months when I ordered a dozen original and sure enough it was $15.49.

Why is Krispy Kreme part of the minimum wage change?

The store is so packed with doughnut carts it is crazy, they have now added a third delivery truck. The store is only about 6 months old I think?
That's not so bad for the Kit Kat Donut. It is 2.89 in the Nevada locations run by franchisee WKS.

I don't understand why they are under the new fast food rules either. Are you sure they are even paying the $20/hr and going to be governed by the fast food council? Maybe they just increased the prices because they can.

In Nevada donuts are not taxable at donut shops. It is still this way at independent bakeries, grocery store bakeries, etc. And historically Krispy Kreme did not collect sales tax on donuts in Nevada either. But for whatever reason a couple years ago WKS decided to start collecting sales tax in Nevada on all transactions (drive through and take out too). Accurately to follow state law, what probably needed to happen was a "hot" donut was taxable but a room temperature donut was not taxable. But rather than do that they decided to just screw the customer and tax 100% of donuts. If you buy Krispy Kreme at a gas station or grocery store it is not taxable in Nevada as those merchants actually understand the sales tax rules and don't want to screw their customers.

So I get the feeling Krispy Kreme just likes to screw customers out of as much money as possible. This is why they charge sales tax on room temperature donuts in Nevada, charge you $19.99 for a dozen of glazed donuts in CA, have a retail price of 2.49 PER DONUT at Ralphs in CA which is still cheaper than their shops charge, etc.
There was a posting on the counter for some overnight position that was paying $20.25 an hour, posting was on a 3rd party website not the actual KK website (typical of franchises lately, seeing weird addresses especially Taco Bell like "Apply at ABCTacoBellsCA.com"). So that makes me assume they're paying the $20.

And their loyalty program handing out free food might be part of the problem then. I'm only showing up when they have an offer. Last night it was totally free one dozen no strings attached. So I got my free dozen, one KitKat to try it. Then my wife got a dozen on her account to take to work. So that's $43.09 discounted to $3.09. Not a recipe for profitability. Maybe just charge a fair price every day?

The other thing is that whatever oil, mix and sugar coating they use these days is not the same as when they first started opening in California. The "hot" doughnuts, which I watched them pull off the line, are basically cold by the time you pay and hit the door. Heat retention worse than bad French fries. We all know the French fry industry has been working for decades on alterations to frozen French fries to make them stay hot and crispy longer. Somehow Krispy Kreme has gone in reverse. So yes they're lighter than air still and have the right taste, but you still have to microwave them a few seconds at home now. The heat retention used to be 10 minutes or more, now it's 30 seconds maybe. I think this is also why they no longer hand out free doughnuts off the line for free to customers as they're ordering as a sample (since really their cost is probably two cents), because whatever they buy will not be as good as the free sample.

Also interestingly the store opened with kiosks but I've never seen them used, and never seen more than one working while the others have offline errors.
If they are subject to the CA fast food law they really should close these stores and shift production to some warehouse somewhere that isn't going to be subject to that. If they are stuck in leases they can truck donuts into these stores and sell them there but not produce them there.

The unit in Sparks must do hot donuts in the morning because they never have any hot donuts in the late afternoon/evening. The line is closed. They seem to send the trucks out to make deliveries around 8 PM or 9 PM. Another customer was there and claimed 3 free dozen, she claimed one, then each of her kids had accounts, the kids looked under 10 years old. No other customers. This unit hardly does any business and I am surprised it is still in business.

I went to claim the free dozen and ordered one Kit Kat also (they only had one type available, the Kit Kat Brownie- great but sweet overload); was quoted $20.98 before the redemption for the free dozen then after they applied that, the Kit Kat was a little over $3 after tax.
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Re: Here come the price increases!

Post by Bagels »

We stopped at the Farmer Boys in Laguna Hills tonight for the first time since January. Their prices are absolutely insane -- $13.99 (!!!) for their new chicken sandwich, $17.99 for a Cobb salad, etc. Their "value menu" items (mini breakfast skillet, grilled cheese sandwich, etc.) was $6.99 - $7.99.

Last week, the Farmer Boys in Santa Ana was $11.99 for a Cobb Salad, $6.99 for the new chicken sandwich and $4.50 for the value menu items.

I've spent a crazy amount of money at the Laguna Hills location since it opened, but I'm not that crazy to keep doing it :). The Cobb salad was $7.99 in 2018... I use to tell everybody about that place.
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