Red Lobster Considering Bankruptcy Filing

[BillyGr]

(All of these are with two sides. I tried to add Smokey Bones (a regional chain in the Southeast) but online ordering was unavailable on their website and I could only find prices with the added Grubhub delivery markup. Costco frequently sells discounted gift cards for Smokey Bones though, so the actual prices can be lower. I also found prices for the local Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, but that's the type of place you usually only go to on someone else's expense account, so I didn't include any of those.

Smokey Bones is more widespread than that - we have one here in Albany, NY.

That chain was at one point also part of Darden - in fact, the location here is in the original Red Lobster building (the kind that you enter at a corner and had the angled hallway, with the restrooms accessed from the front waiting area), when that chain moved to a newer/larger space back when you expected to wait to get in unless you had lunner around 2-3pm

Not sure if many (or all) of them were for such reasons, but it makes sense that they would find a use for a now empty building like that.

[storewanderer]

If a chain is in long-term decline, then rising rents will give them more reason to keep closing stores. I'm surprised when I see any of these places that have been named, because they've gotten fewer and fewer. International operations probably keep some of them afloat--chains like Shkey's and Kenny Rogers couldn't have lasted even in their diminished form without them.

Diluting Red Lobster's brand with pizza makes no sense particular as both the quick serve pizza (Mod, &pizza, etc.) and the brick oven Neopolitan style fads seem to be passing.

Fast food and fast casual restaurants realized they didn't need promotions during COVID and could raise prices, and they've kept doing it, out of whack with the inflation in their costs. This can only last so long and the most vulnerable chains will continue to lose ground. If you live in a place with lots of good take out or simple eat-in restaurants, then there's no point in bothering with these places and there are more alternatives in many cities, not just ones always known for cosmopolitan choices.

Well said, and in my area it plays out just like that.

I'm starting to see more promotions creep into fast food and casual food as of late. I have noticed outside of the never ending lines at In-N-Out there is a definite slowdown in traffic at other fast food places and fast casual. I am surprised how many emails and app notifications I'm seeing in the last week or so, and I even saw a news story on TV last night that restaurants are starting to put together more deals. I think this latest wave of price increases that hit over the past few months is really turning off customers who are very much pinched for cash right now. I suspect that more of these promotions will be targeted to customers on social media or who will use mobile ordering and such to cut labor cost for the most part.

For example, I am a hockey fan and Chipotle snuck in a last minute BOGO deal Monday on social media for anyone who wears any hockey jersey to their restaurant. No upper limit, you could theoretically order ten burritos or bowls and pay for five. Interestingly enough, it was not in partnership with the NHL although they usually sponsor many teams. The lack of NHL inclusion indicates that it was thrown together last minute as any deal with the league takes months to set up, and it would have likely been better promoted with the playoffs just starting. It has been a while since I visited my nearest Chipotle and I was shocked to be the only person in line at prime time 5:30pm, last few visits at same time there was about a dozen people in line.

Since the holidays I have noticed places seem to get more and more quiet as month end approaches. I noticed it last month with Easter which was strange. In January/February I thought maybe it was due to the weather.

By "places" I mean retailers and certain types of restaurants. Especially ones that seem to cater significantly to a lower middle class type of customer base which is basically all of fast food, Wal Mart, Target, Sam's Club, and such.

The price hikes are a complete joke in CA specifically. In SoCal there are SO many local/independent restaurants where you can get significantly more food for the same or less money than these fast food chains. In NorCal it isn't so much that way because the prices are so outrageously higher and the independent restaurants also have very high pricing, but there is a quite impressive host of independent restaurants in SoCal who are set up well to do to go orders in addition to full service dine in, with what I call bargain pricing in SoCal; for various food types; Asian, Italian, Mexican, Deli, basically whatever you want. I actually end up not having enough time to try all the good places I find just by driving around, seeing places, and then checking reviews online. I just hope these independent places can hold on to their employees since they probably aren't making $20/hour... but maybe the tips help get them over that line.

[BillyGr]

The price hikes are a complete joke in CA specifically. In SoCal there are SO many local/independent restaurants where you can get significantly more food for the same or less money than these fast food chains. In NorCal it isn't so much that way because the prices are so outrageously higher and the independent restaurants also have very high pricing, but there is a quite impressive host of independent restaurants in SoCal who are set up well to do to go orders in addition to full service dine in, with what I call bargain pricing in SoCal; for various food types; Asian, Italian, Mexican, Deli, basically whatever you want. I actually end up not having enough time to try all the good places I find just by driving around, seeing places, and then checking reviews online. I just hope these independent places can hold on to their employees since they probably aren't making $20/hour... but maybe the tips help get them over that line.

And, at least with some independently owned restaurants, staff will actually stay there even if they make a little less than they could in other places just because they become "part of the family" and prefer working for that type of owner over someone who may not be as friendly.

[storewanderer]

The price hikes are a complete joke in CA specifically. In SoCal there are SO many local/independent restaurants where you can get significantly more food for the same or less money than these fast food chains. In NorCal it isn't so much that way because the prices are so outrageously higher and the independent restaurants also have very high pricing, but there is a quite impressive host of independent restaurants in SoCal who are set up well to do to go orders in addition to full service dine in, with what I call bargain pricing in SoCal; for various food types; Asian, Italian, Mexican, Deli, basically whatever you want. I actually end up not having enough time to try all the good places I find just by driving around, seeing places, and then checking reviews online. I just hope these independent places can hold on to their employees since they probably aren't making $20/hour... but maybe the tips help get them over that line.

And, at least with some independently owned restaurants, staff will actually stay there even if they make a little less than they could in other places just because they become "part of the family" and prefer working for that type of owner over someone who may not be as friendly.

And for the more frequent turnover level employees, these independents, they seem to have ways of getting employees who can help them meet the needs of the business. They often have a way to recruit kids from the nearby high school and staff them from 4-8 or whatever to help with dinner and that is it. They don't care if the kids only work a couple days a week whereas in a more corporate structure that may or may not fly.

[Bagels]

@Brian Lutz has an excellent post. I don’t think it’s a big coincidence that the chains that do well, are the ones that have kept their pricing down.

The Dollar Menu was the key to McDonald’s turnaround 25 years ago. Likewise, Denny’s value menu helped turn the chains fortunes around when it was introduced during the Great Recession. Consumers want good value. If I’m going to pay $15 for a burger, it’s not going to be Carl’s Jr. And that’s a point I think most franchisees don’t get.

Brick oven pizzas wouldn’t have turned Red Lobster around but as I mentioned the chain was trying to pivot toward wood grilled meats. Diversifying their menu would’ve definitely helped a turnaround as their restaurants are larger than average and need to draw volume. Darden at one point proposed converting them into duel Red Lobstsr-Longhorn’s or Olive Garden concepts. Investors hated the idea and maybe rightfully so as Olive Garden reigns.

Useless trivia- millennials became the first generation whose go-to food was not Italian. We prefer Mexican… but Gen Z prefers Asian. Tastes are diversifying.

[Brian Lutz]

Useless trivia- millennials became the first generation whose go-to food was not Italian. We prefer Mexican… but Gen Z prefers Asian. Tastes are diversifying.

Mexican remains quite popular, but it's a bit of an odd situation when it comes to chain restaurants in that there really aren't any significant nationwide sit-down Mexican chains, and the vast majority of places in any given area are likely to be locally owned.

Probably the closest thing you have to a national chain in that space is On The Border at around 150 restaurants (only 8 of those are west of Denver and 25 of them are in the Dallas/Fort Worth area), but the vast majority of Mexican places in any given area seem to be either single locations or small local chains with only a handful of restaurants, plus a few regional chains (Azteca in the Seattle area is a good example of this with 15 locations in Washington, or Mi Pueblo in Charlotte and the Triad is another one with around 10 locations now.) Chi-Chi's was once quite prominent in this space but is now long since extinct, and Chevy's is down to 16 locations.

Fast Casual "Fresh-Mex" places like Chipotle, Qdoba, Baja Fresh, Cafe Rio, and Moe's seem to be where these are proliferating, although I've been less than impressed with a lot of these.

[Bagels]

Useless trivia- millennials became the first generation whose go-to food was not Italian. We prefer Mexican… but Gen Z prefers Asian. Tastes are diversifying.

Mexican remains quite popular, but it's a bit of an odd situation when it comes to chain restaurants in that there really aren't any significant nationwide sit-down Mexican chains, and the vast majority of places in any given area are likely to be locally owned.

Probably the closest thing you have to a national chain in that space is On The Border at around 150 restaurants (only 8 of those are west of Denver and 25 of them are in the Dallas/Fort Worth area), but the vast majority of Mexican places in any given area seem to be either single locations or small local chains with only a handful of restaurants, plus a few regional chains (Azteca in the Seattle area is a good example of this with 15 locations in Washington, or Mi Pueblo in Charlotte and the Triad is another one with around 10 locations now.) Chi-Chi's was once quite prominent in this space but is now long since extinct, and Chevy's is down to 16 locations.

Fast Casual "Fresh-Mex" places like Chipotle, Qdoba, Baja Fresh, Cafe Rio, and Moe's seem to be where these are proliferating, although I've been less than impressed with a lot of these.

How many restaurants did Chevy's / El Torito have at their peak? Hard to believe Chevy's is down to 16.

I think Mexican is a challenge because there's so many local dive restaurants that are cheap. I love a fajita from El Torito, but at over $40 (including service charge, tax and tip), I'll go to some dive restaurant in Santa Ana for an equally good meal at less than half the price.

[ClownLoach]

Useless trivia- millennials became the first generation whose go-to food was not Italian. We prefer Mexican… but Gen Z prefers Asian. Tastes are diversifying.

Mexican remains quite popular, but it's a bit of an odd situation when it comes to chain restaurants in that there really aren't any significant nationwide sit-down Mexican chains, and the vast majority of places in any given area are likely to be locally owned.

Probably the closest thing you have to a national chain in that space is On The Border at around 150 restaurants (only 8 of those are west of Denver and 25 of them are in the Dallas/Fort Worth area), but the vast majority of Mexican places in any given area seem to be either single locations or small local chains with only a handful of restaurants, plus a few regional chains (Azteca in the Seattle area is a good example of this with 15 locations in Washington, or Mi Pueblo in Charlotte and the Triad is another one with around 10 locations now.) Chi-Chi's was once quite prominent in this space but is now long since extinct, and Chevy's is down to 16 locations.

Fast Casual "Fresh-Mex" places like Chipotle, Qdoba, Baja Fresh, Cafe Rio, and Moe's seem to be where these are proliferating, although I've been less than impressed with a lot of these.

How many restaurants did Chevy's / El Torito have at their peak? Hard to believe Chevy's is down to 16.

I think Mexican is a challenge because there's so many local dive restaurants that are cheap. I love a fajita from El Torito, but at over $40 (including service charge, tax and tip), I'll go to some dive restaurant in Santa Ana for an equally good meal at less than half the price.

El Torito was founded as an authentic Mexican restaurant, but now under generic corporate ownership they are dwindling. What is unfortunate is the corporation that runs them now, Xperience Restaurant Group, has wasted incredible amounts of money trying to expand new Mexican concepts outside of SoCal and has failed dismally. They opened a Solita in Chicago at great expense and it barely stayed open for 12 months, millions of dollars wasted. They opened a SOL in the back corner downstairs at the Shops at Caesars Palace mall and it not only looks cold and bleak but also dead inside, they had maybe two customers while the Joe's Seafood on the other side of the escalator was fully booked for reservations and had recently expanded (Joe's being the famous stone crab and key lime pie place from Florida). I expect that Caesars location to close very soon.

So then they wind up closing the remaining El Torito sites, many of which are owned real estate which they need to liquidate or sublease desperately to keep the company afloat. The long gone OC Weekly had an article about ten years ago about the founder Larry Cano and his quest to build an empire of Mexican restaurants that also created real job opportunities for Mexican-American people at every level including Executive Chef, Director, General Manager and so forth at a time when it was unheard of for immigrants to be in those positions. There were hundreds of El Torito restaurants across the country and now there are barely any left after his death, and they're indistinguishable from the other generic concepts the chain runs like Chevys and Acapulco. At one point they were also running a very upscale concept called El Torito Grill which had locations in Brea, Torrance, Irvine, and the flagship in Fashion Island. The food was fantastic, more of a modern reinventing of Mexican-American that was spicier and fresher, but the corporate people dumbed it down and slashed the quality. All but one have closed now, and the SOL concept intended to replace it is not much better but far more expensive. I am not sure El Torito is going to be around much longer, I could see the remaining locations closed by this brainless corporation in the next 18 to 24 months as they keep looking for a fast buck only to lose millions of dollars at a time.

When Baja Fresh was first opening up, their food was absolutely fabulous. I used to eat at one of their first stores in Long Beach when they had less than ten locations. Fresh everything prepared to order with all the meats fire grilled in small batches every few minutes. I remember when the lines were out the door every lunchtime and evening. But they were killed by overexpansion, franchising, and then the final death blow came from being acquired by Wendy's who immediately implemented commissary made foods, shelf stable tortillas, factory made sauces and marinades, factory chips and so on. They never recovered from Wendy's.

[Bagels]

Mexican remains quite popular, but it's a bit of an odd situation when it comes to chain restaurants in that there really aren't any significant nationwide sit-down Mexican chains, and the vast majority of places in any given area are likely to be locally owned.

Probably the closest thing you have to a national chain in that space is On The Border at around 150 restaurants (only 8 of those are west of Denver and 25 of them are in the Dallas/Fort Worth area), but the vast majority of Mexican places in any given area seem to be either single locations or small local chains with only a handful of restaurants, plus a few regional chains (Azteca in the Seattle area is a good example of this with 15 locations in Washington, or Mi Pueblo in Charlotte and the Triad is another one with around 10 locations now.) Chi-Chi's was once quite prominent in this space but is now long since extinct, and Chevy's is down to 16 locations.

Fast Casual "Fresh-Mex" places like Chipotle, Qdoba, Baja Fresh, Cafe Rio, and Moe's seem to be where these are proliferating, although I've been less than impressed with a lot of these.

How many restaurants did Chevy's / El Torito have at their peak? Hard to believe Chevy's is down to 16.

I think Mexican is a challenge because there's so many local dive restaurants that are cheap. I love a fajita from El Torito, but at over $40 (including service charge, tax and tip), I'll go to some dive restaurant in Santa Ana for an equally good meal at less than half the price.

El Torito was founded as an authentic Mexican restaurant, but now under generic corporate ownership they are dwindling. What is unfortunate is the corporation that runs them now, Xperience Restaurant Group, has wasted incredible amounts of money trying to expand new Mexican concepts outside of SoCal and has failed dismally. They opened a Solita in Chicago at great expense and it barely stayed open for 12 months, millions of dollars wasted. They opened a SOL in the back corner downstairs at the Shops at Caesars Palace mall and it not only looks cold and bleak but also dead inside, they had maybe two customers while the Joe's Seafood on the other side of the escalator was fully booked for reservations and had recently expanded (Joe's being the famous stone crab and key lime pie place from Florida). I expect that Caesars location to close very soon.

So then they wind up closing the remaining El Torito sites, many of which are owned real estate which they need to liquidate or sublease desperately to keep the company afloat. The long gone OC Weekly had an article about ten years ago about the founder Larry Cano and his quest to build an empire of Mexican restaurants that also created real job opportunities for Mexican-American people at every level including Executive Chef, Director, General Manager and so forth at a time when it was unheard of for immigrants to be in those positions. There were hundreds of El Torito restaurants across the country and now there are barely any left after his death, and they're indistinguishable from the other generic concepts the chain runs like Chevys and Acapulco. At one point they were also running a very upscale concept called El Torito Grill which had locations in Brea, Torrance, Irvine, and the flagship in Fashion Island. The food was fantastic, more of a modern reinventing of Mexican-American that was spicier and fresher, but the corporate people dumbed it down and slashed the quality. All but one have closed now, and the SOL concept intended to replace it is not much better but far more expensive. I am not sure El Torito is going to be around much longer, I could see the remaining locations closed by this brainless corporation in the next 18 to 24 months as they keep looking for a fast buck only to lose millions of dollars at a time.

When Baja Fresh was first opening up, their food was absolutely fabulous. I used to eat at one of their first stores in Long Beach when they had less than ten locations. Fresh everything prepared to order with all the meats fire grilled in small batches every few minutes. I remember when the lines were out the door every lunchtime and evening. But they were killed by overexpansion, franchising, and then the final death blow came from being acquired by Wendy's who immediately implemented commissary made foods, shelf stable tortillas, factory made sauces and marinades, factory chips and so on. They never recovered from Wendy's.

El Torito didn’t stand a chance. The growing Mexican population lead to the opening of thousands of local, mostly dive restaurants selling similar food at lower prices. And of course Hispanic people are very loyal and will support these establishments. And in recent years there’s a growing trend of street food. Since these vendors have little cost, they can sell for 1/2 and even 1/3 of a local restaurant.

Street vendors are a pet peeve of mine. Very loosely regulated. Many won’t bother to get a permit then they’ll set-up shop on private property near popular restaurants. And if the property and/ or business owners complain, the local loyal community will rally behind the vendors and boycott the other business. Very unfair to business owners - both the restaurant and landlord.

El Torito had long been one of my favorite restaurants but they’re closing down at an alarming pace. No surprise either - hardly anyone dines there anymore. The remaining Irvine location (the one across from John Wayne) rarely uses its dining room, just the small bar area.

They converted the Irvine El Torito Grill to Sol. I believe it’s largely the same menu… it really didn’t make much sense to have two concepts with similar name nearby. Can’t fault them for that one.

[ClownLoach]

How many restaurants did Chevy's / El Torito have at their peak? Hard to believe Chevy's is down to 16.

I think Mexican is a challenge because there's so many local dive restaurants that are cheap. I love a fajita from El Torito, but at over $40 (including service charge, tax and tip), I'll go to some dive restaurant in Santa Ana for an equally good meal at less than half the price.

El Torito was founded as an authentic Mexican restaurant, but now under generic corporate ownership they are dwindling. What is unfortunate is the corporation that runs them now, Xperience Restaurant Group, has wasted incredible amounts of money trying to expand new Mexican concepts outside of SoCal and has failed dismally. They opened a Solita in Chicago at great expense and it barely stayed open for 12 months, millions of dollars wasted. They opened a SOL in the back corner downstairs at the Shops at Caesars Palace mall and it not only looks cold and bleak but also dead inside, they had maybe two customers while the Joe's Seafood on the other side of the escalator was fully booked for reservations and had recently expanded (Joe's being the famous stone crab and key lime pie place from Florida). I expect that Caesars location to close very soon.

So then they wind up closing the remaining El Torito sites, many of which are owned real estate which they need to liquidate or sublease desperately to keep the company afloat. The long gone OC Weekly had an article about ten years ago about the founder Larry Cano and his quest to build an empire of Mexican restaurants that also created real job opportunities for Mexican-American people at every level including Executive Chef, Director, General Manager and so forth at a time when it was unheard of for immigrants to be in those positions. There were hundreds of El Torito restaurants across the country and now there are barely any left after his death, and they're indistinguishable from the other generic concepts the chain runs like Chevys and Acapulco. At one point they were also running a very upscale concept called El Torito Grill which had locations in Brea, Torrance, Irvine, and the flagship in Fashion Island. The food was fantastic, more of a modern reinventing of Mexican-American that was spicier and fresher, but the corporate people dumbed it down and slashed the quality. All but one have closed now, and the SOL concept intended to replace it is not much better but far more expensive. I am not sure El Torito is going to be around much longer, I could see the remaining locations closed by this brainless corporation in the next 18 to 24 months as they keep looking for a fast buck only to lose millions of dollars at a time.

When Baja Fresh was first opening up, their food was absolutely fabulous. I used to eat at one of their first stores in Long Beach when they had less than ten locations. Fresh everything prepared to order with all the meats fire grilled in small batches every few minutes. I remember when the lines were out the door every lunchtime and evening. But they were killed by overexpansion, franchising, and then the final death blow came from being acquired by Wendy's who immediately implemented commissary made foods, shelf stable tortillas, factory made sauces and marinades, factory chips and so on. They never recovered from Wendy's.

El Torito didn’t stand a chance. The growing Mexican population lead to the opening of thousands of local, mostly dive restaurants selling similar food at lower prices. And of course Hispanic people are very loyal and will support these establishments. And in recent years there’s a growing trend of street food. Since these vendors have little cost, they can sell for 1/2 and even 1/3 of a local restaurant.

Street vendors are a pet peeve of mine. Very loosely regulated. Many won’t bother to get a permit then they’ll set-up shop on private property near popular restaurants. And if the property and/ or business owners complain, the local loyal community will rally behind the vendors and boycott the other business. Very unfair to business owners - both the restaurant and landlord.

El Torito had long been one of my favorite restaurants but they’re closing down at an alarming pace. No surprise either - hardly anyone dines there anymore. The remaining Irvine location (the one across from John Wayne) rarely uses its dining room, just the small bar area.

They converted the Irvine El Torito Grill to Sol. I believe it’s largely the same menu… it really didn’t make much sense to have two concepts with similar name nearby. Can’t fault them for that one.

The SOL menu is not at all the same. Little portions of food made up to look good for social media at double the price of the Grill. Bland and flavorless, made for American tastes. A la care pricing Sunday brunch instead of unlimited. It's a huge step back. Unfortunately they changed the Grill menu at the one remaining location to basically the SOL menu which might be why you see similarities.