The differences between Kroger and Albertsons

[pseudo3d]

(Split from Haggen thread to prevent going offtopic and making my "reply" post even longer)

I don't think Kroger is very centralized at all from a merchandising perspective. Up until about 10 years ago they still had different interior decor at every division and up until about 5 or so years ago they still had different print ad formats in every division. Some divisions have cashier unload checkout (QFC, King Soopers) most have customer unload. Some have registers that are touch screen some have older style keyboards. Employee uniforms vary by division too. They still don't even have the same shelf tags in every division and there are various "slogans" being used depending on the division. Also every division has a different bakery/deli/meat/produce program (in some cases different locations in the same city in the same division are on entirely different programs...). They are really quite inconsistent on their merchandising even between stores located in the same division let alone stores in different divisions. Some of the Kroger divisions tend to be rather similar/boring/sterile (divisions like Dillons and Kroger Central come to mind) on the whole but some of the divisions have some really good, really nice stores. Fred Meyer, Ralphs, Frys, and QFC are the ones who I think have the nicest stores. But those divisions also have some lousy stores.

OK, since we're back to this, I guess I can answer them, but I gotta tell you...I do have a personal dislike for Kroger. That's not going to prevent me from arguing with facts, but I feel I should be acknowledging my bias. I also worked at Kroger once and briefly, though that doesn't really factor in to why I dislike it. It's a bunch of little things, mostly, and because of forum rules here, I won't get into all of them.

Not counting the Fred Meyer division, is that really different? The price tags when I worked there are all similar to what I see when searching "Kroger price tags" (even the new-style electronic ones), uniforms are not done by division but rather by department, store décor wasn't nearly as de-centralized as you describe (all of the divisions had Greenhouse, though that had a few changes), the "slogans" are all similar (same "Low Prices" signage), and as for customer/cashier unloading (I assume you mean taking things out to one's car) isn't that tend to be a cultural thing? It's not big where I live, and tipping isn't expected there, but from what I've heard, it's very different elsewhere.

Kroger operates its divisions NOTHING like Albertsons. Don't fool yourself. Albertsons is very centralized and if anything has become more centralized since the involvement with Safeway came into play. Albertsons is trying to decentralize some of the merchandising decisions but so far I have not seen any changes other than a number of sports team sponsorships. Same old "local" term being thrown around on products grown hundreds of miles away or even in Mexico. Pushing O Organics and Eating Right lines that are total dogs and even failed once before in the AZ Albertsons LLC Stores. From the perspective of Safeway people it is just a change in who is the boss, but it is still a very "top down" mentality just like Safeway always was. The only positive is Albertsons has a lot of room to improve itself because overall they are a terrible operator. Sure they have some bright spots like the Albertsons LLC Stores and United Texas but other than that they have major issues; major mAjOr MAJOR price issues, lower volume stores than most competitors, and stores that need capital.

Look...I realize that the Safeway brands aren't "all that", and rolling that out to their own stores may have been a mistake. I like some of the old Albertsons/SuperValu brands, but they couldn't be kept. I don't live close enough to Albertsons or Safeway to really observe local merchandising, and my last trip to an Albertsons was unfortunately a short one.

The fleet Albertsons runs is damaged goods, and some divisions are obviously in worse shape than others (reading about the differences between the Southwest division to the NorCal division is jarring), but they were able to stop the bleeding in others (ACME was going off the rails), and those stores are showing signs of improvement.

The main difference is Kroger will dictate ideas down to its divisions and the divisions will try the ideas. If the ideas don't work, the divisions will not continue with the ideas or they will tinker with the ideas so they work for their specific market area. With Safeway or Albertsons, when an idea comes down from corporate to the divisions, it has to be tried and pushback is simply not allowed. Even feedback as simple as "need more labor to properly execute" or "price is too high" are things that Albertsons or Safeway corporate, historically, will not listen to. Maybe the new Albertsons will change this but so far I don't think it has really gone too well since the Safeway merger. I know back in the early days of Albertsons LLC there were a number of quick swift changes... but I am afraid they are too big and too centralized again.

Maybe in the old Albertsons and Safeway, but I'm not sure now. I know that Safeway had a number of weird things that the "backroom" at Pleasanton did that was more antagonistic to the store managers and didn't help customers, which Albertsons got rid of. But Kroger is also Kroger, and I'm dubious of the "dictate down/try it/see if it works" method, as it just doesn't sound like the Kroger I know. Why are all the Kroger stores unionized, even in parts of the States that aren't as receptive to unions? Why do all the Kroger stores (not counting acquired chains) have shoppers cards? (On that same note, why is MyMixx only in ACME and Shaw's?)

[wnetmacman]

In Kroger, you may have found the greenhouses in all divisions. In that time (up to about 1985), you're absolutely correct. Kroger was frozen in a time warp where all divisions followed the corporate guidance. But not long after that, Kroger decided to start running the company a little differently.

Have you ever seen the Kroger Signature stores outside of the Southwest (Texas, Louisiana) division?

Have you ever seen Kroger/Savon in the Southwest or Delta regions?

Do stores in Indianapolis have bakeries that cater to the hispanic population?

Yet all Albertsons LLC stores have a similar decor package, and only minimal deviations for the locale?

Do you see the point now? Kroger changed the way they work. Albertsons, even with all the ownership changes and assimilations, has not.

Take a look on Google Maps at stores in each division. They look different.

[veteran+]

WNETMACMAN, I have to agree with you.

I worked for King Soopers and Ralphs (Marketplace and Fresh Fare).

I have seen the transformation.

I also worked for Safeway (and Vons, Pavilions). Safeway was always very dictatorial (ruthlessly). They had the highest District Manager and Store Manager burn out I have ever witnessed (psychological breakdowns inclusive).

Albertson's is/was interesting and very inconsistent. In some States they were masterpieces and other States very pedestrian or worse.

[pseudo3d]

In Kroger, you may have found the greenhouses in all divisions. In that time (up to about 1985), you're absolutely correct. Kroger was frozen in a time warp where all divisions followed the corporate guidance. But not long after that, Kroger decided to start running the company a little differently.

Have you ever seen the Kroger Signature stores outside of the Southwest (Texas, Louisiana) division?

Have you ever seen Kroger/Savon in the Southwest or Delta regions?

I don't know, but it seems to me that Kroger has centralized more, not less, given these examples. For example, the Kroger Signature store design was unique in its larger footprint, and niceties that were relatively uncommon for stores like Kroger at the time (Starbucks, sushi). However, what ended up happening was that the actual format was replicated across the entire chain once certain aspects had been streamlined (some early Signature stores actually included KFC and Taco Bell outlets in-store, that didn't last long), Southwest made the name meaningless by applying it to old stores (Texas Medical Center's acquired AppleTree, an early 1980s greenhouse in the Woodlands), and eventually, the name was no longer used (looks like one store in Houston at least gave up on the name entirely).

Also, the Family Center stores were dispensed with other regions, but continued in the Texas regions well into the 1980s. I have an October 1985 advertisement for Kroger where you could buy ammunition and clothing.

Do stores in Indianapolis have bakeries that cater to the hispanic population?

But Albertsons has/had Kosher delis, which aren't universal. Likewise, not every division got liquor stores (even accounting for local laws) or garden centers.

Do you see the point now? Kroger changed the way they work. Albertsons, even with all the ownership changes and assimilations, has not.

Arguably, Kroger didn't change, and that's a good thing for the company. They slowly expanded by buying chains in the 1960s (and assimilating early), cutting out markets here and there where they didn't work (St. Louis, Chicago, parts of Louisiana, Florida, San Antonio), and ultimately prospered. Albertsons de-stabilized itself when it went on a massive expansion binge from the early 1990s to 2002 when it came to a screeching halt. Most of Florida, the entirety of Houston, Buttrey, Smitty's MO, American Stores, and more were all part of this. Subsequently, with the cutting of stores, the breakup, the cutting of MORE stores, re-unifying with almost half of its supermarkets gone, and then merging with Safeway...that's certainly a wild turn of events which, while it makes a good story, is not good for companies.

[storewanderer]

Albertsons was on a neighborhood marketing kick in the late 1990's and early 2000's trying to cover up its major botching of the ASC buyout and made a big deal about installing a few Kosher Delis here or a garden center there. Yet none of what they did ever materialized any good sales trends for them. Albertsons celebrated these achievements in investment calls and in their colorful annual reports yet it didn't seem to help them when it came to attracting customers based on the sales numbers they kept delivering to the investment community.

Maybe the little Kroger divisions (Ralphs, Frys, Smiths, King Soopers, QFC, Fred Meyer) out toward the west operate differently than the namesake Krogers. I don't know. What I do know is I've been to Kroger Atlanta, Kroger Dallas, Kroger Central, Kroger Memphis, and all of these stores are quite different on merchandising, store conditions/standards/cleanliness (Atlanta way below what it should have been), different on pricing, and on very different bakery/deli programs. Harris Teeter is still unrecognizable as a Kroger division.

The Kroger stores have shopping cards because those programs came from the acquired chains. Smiths and Ralphs both had cards in the mid 1990's. Most of the Kroger namesake divisions did not have cards until well into the 2000's. Why hasn't Kroger pushed a sale price-required card yet on Fred Meyer, Food 4 Less, or Ruler Foods?

Whatever Kroger has been doing the past decade has obviously been working very well. Their sales numbers speak for themselves. And as far as Albertsons/Safeway over the past decade, the chain of events there also speaks for itself. Past performance does not guarantee future results but so far what I see going on at this point in time is Kroger is continuing to do what it has been doing for the past decade and Albertsons/Safeway is also doing the same old thing. One is a formula that has been winning and the other is a formula that has resulted in many thousands of jobs lost, hundreds of stores closed/sold, and lower rankings every time Consumer Reports has a supermarket survey. This does not say that things may change tomorrow as the grocery business is very fluid but so far I see a lot more of Safeway top down attitude seeping into Albertsons than I think is good.

[arizonaguy]

(Split from Haggen thread to prevent going offtopic and making my "reply" post even longer)

I don't think Kroger is very centralized at all from a merchandising perspective. Up until about 10 years ago they still had different interior decor at every division and up until about 5 or so years ago they still had different print ad formats in every division. Some divisions have cashier unload checkout (QFC, King Soopers) most have customer unload. Some have registers that are touch screen some have older style keyboards. Employee uniforms vary by division too. They still don't even have the same shelf tags in every division and there are various "slogans" being used depending on the division. Also every division has a different bakery/deli/meat/produce program (in some cases different locations in the same city in the same division are on entirely different programs...). They are really quite inconsistent on their merchandising even between stores located in the same division let alone stores in different divisions. Some of the Kroger divisions tend to be rather similar/boring/sterile (divisions like Dillons and Kroger Central come to mind) on the whole but some of the divisions have some really good, really nice stores. Fred Meyer, Ralphs, Frys, and QFC are the ones who I think have the nicest stores. But those divisions also have some lousy stores.

OK, since we're back to this, I guess I can answer them, but I gotta tell you...I do have a personal dislike for Kroger. That's not going to prevent me from arguing with facts, but I feel I should be acknowledging my bias. I also worked at Kroger once and briefly, though that doesn't really factor in to why I dislike it. It's a bunch of little things, mostly, and because of forum rules here, I won't get into all of them.

Not counting the Fred Meyer division, is that really different? The price tags when I worked there are all similar to what I see when searching "Kroger price tags" (even the new-style electronic ones), uniforms are not done by division but rather by department, store décor wasn't nearly as de-centralized as you describe (all of the divisions had Greenhouse, though that had a few changes), the "slogans" are all similar (same "Low Prices" signage), and as for customer/cashier unloading (I assume you mean taking things out to one's car) isn't that tend to be a cultural thing? It's not big where I live, and tipping isn't expected there, but from what I've heard, it's very different elsewhere.

Kroger operates its divisions NOTHING like Albertsons. Don't fool yourself. Albertsons is very centralized and if anything has become more centralized since the involvement with Safeway came into play. Albertsons is trying to decentralize some of the merchandising decisions but so far I have not seen any changes other than a number of sports team sponsorships. Same old "local" term being thrown around on products grown hundreds of miles away or even in Mexico. Pushing O Organics and Eating Right lines that are total dogs and even failed once before in the AZ Albertsons LLC Stores. From the perspective of Safeway people it is just a change in who is the boss, but it is still a very "top down" mentality just like Safeway always was. The only positive is Albertsons has a lot of room to improve itself because overall they are a terrible operator. Sure they have some bright spots like the Albertsons LLC Stores and United Texas but other than that they have major issues; major mAjOr MAJOR price issues, lower volume stores than most competitors, and stores that need capital.

Look...I realize that the Safeway brands aren't "all that", and rolling that out to their own stores may have been a mistake. I like some of the old Albertsons/SuperValu brands, but they couldn't be kept. I don't live close enough to Albertsons or Safeway to really observe local merchandising, and my last trip to an Albertsons was unfortunately a short one.

The fleet Albertsons runs is damaged goods, and some divisions are obviously in worse shape than others (reading about the differences between the Southwest division to the NorCal division is jarring), but they were able to stop the bleeding in others (ACME was going off the rails), and those stores are showing signs of improvement.

The main difference is Kroger will dictate ideas down to its divisions and the divisions will try the ideas. If the ideas don't work, the divisions will not continue with the ideas or they will tinker with the ideas so they work for their specific market area. With Safeway or Albertsons, when an idea comes down from corporate to the divisions, it has to be tried and pushback is simply not allowed. Even feedback as simple as "need more labor to properly execute" or "price is too high" are things that Albertsons or Safeway corporate, historically, will not listen to. Maybe the new Albertsons will change this but so far I don't think it has really gone too well since the Safeway merger. I know back in the early days of Albertsons LLC there were a number of quick swift changes... but I am afraid they are too big and too centralized again.

Maybe in the old Albertsons and Safeway, but I'm not sure now. I know that Safeway had a number of weird things that the "backroom" at Pleasanton did that was more antagonistic to the store managers and didn't help customers, which Albertsons got rid of. But Kroger is also Kroger, and I'm dubious of the "dictate down/try it/see if it works" method, as it just doesn't sound like the Kroger I know. Why are all the Kroger stores unionized, even in parts of the States that aren't as receptive to unions? Why do all the Kroger stores (not counting acquired chains) have shoppers cards? (On that same note, why is MyMixx only in ACME and Shaw's?)

Over the past few months I've been to a few different Kroger stores (2 in Cincinnati, 1 in Nashville, 1 in Savannah, and 1 in the Houston suburbs) as well as multiple Fry's stores in Arizona. For the most part, the stores all look about the same. The Cincinnati stores are probably the best of the bunch (1 was a "standard" store and 1 a Marketplace) as they had the best selection and the "standard" store probably had the best floral department I've ever seen in a major chain supermarket. I'm guessing the fact that this store was in the backyard of the HQ may have had something to do with it.

In my observations, there is very little that separates Fry's from the Kroger bannered stores. Fry's does run multiple formats (Signature, Marketplace, and Mercado) and product selection and décor very by store (with some ex-Smith's almost being "Marketplace lite" stores. However, there's very little about Fry's that is truly unique to the banner (as elements are found in all other Kroger banners). Also, only a handful of stores are "unique" whereas the vast majority are plain vanilla Kroger (there are 4 Signature stores, 1 Signature Marketplace, 1 Mercado, and maybe 1 or 2 of the "Marketplace lite" stores and everything else is a standard Food & Drug store or Pharmacy). Also, as approximately 2/3 of the Arizona stores were re-bannered anyways after the merger of Fry's / Smith's / Smitty's they probably could've just abandoned the Fry's name and converted everything to Kroger and not suffered any real backlash.

For full disclosure, I've not been to a Fred Meyer, King Soopers, Ralph's, Smith's, or QFC store so I don't know if there is any difference between Fry's and those banners (or if they are unique in any way) but from the Kroger bannered stores I've been to I just don't see a big difference between them and Fry's. Other forums (City-Data most notably) have even referred to Fry's stores as Kroger as there is nothing setting these stores apart.

I've gotten the same feeling with Safeway (and their bannered stores). I've been in Randall's, Tom Thumb, Safeway, and VONs stores and if the store has a "lifestyle" interior 90% of the product mix would be the same (Safeway NorCal is not noticeably different from Safeway Phoenix either).

Albertsons stores are probably more unique (although most of the stores operating with an "Albertsons" banner that I've been to could use some serious TLC which may account for their uniqueness). They really should either fully remodel these stores (ceiling, floor, walls, fixtures, shopping carts) to bring them up to the standard of their competition or simply close a number of these stores in sorry shape. It's VERY noticeable in Arizona where every Safeway store (except for 1 in Tucson that time seems to have forgot, as it doesn't even have a Pharmacy), has been renovated in the past 12 years (some even more recently) whereas some Albertsons stores are still in late 1990s décor packages or have been renovated very cheaply.

[storewanderer]

I think that is where Kroger is: the stores are quite inconsistent by area in that they have varying merchandising, varying fresh departments, etc. but there are a lot of ideas being transitioned "between banners." I think this is how Kroger has managed to keep its sales growing. The divisions keep trying new ideas and then sharing them with other divisions. They do a lot of really good remodels and really good new stores but as is pointed out the majority of the stores are still pretty boring, but well executed boring stores that are typically more productive than their competitors.

I always felt Albertsons was consistent from a merchandising standpoint it was just execution that seemed to vary a lot between locations back in the 1990's and into the 2000's. The stores sold the same things and priced the same way but some stores were cleaner than others, some kept in-stock better than others, some rotated produce better than others, etc. Today Albertsons seems to have worked on the execution problems but the stores are such a patchwork of decors and remodel qualities that they look different on the surface but when you dig deeper they are the same.

[pseudo3d]

I think that is where Kroger is: the stores are quite inconsistent by area in that they have varying merchandising, varying fresh departments, etc. but there are a lot of ideas being transitioned "between banners." I think this is how Kroger has managed to keep its sales growing. The divisions keep trying new ideas and then sharing them with other divisions. They do a lot of really good remodels and really good new stores but as is pointed out the majority of the stores are still pretty boring, but well executed boring stores that are typically more productive than their competitors.

I always felt Albertsons was consistent from a merchandising standpoint it was just execution that seemed to vary a lot between locations back in the 1990's and into the 2000's. The stores sold the same things and priced the same way but some stores were cleaner than others, some kept in-stock better than others, some rotated produce better than others, etc. Today Albertsons seems to have worked on the execution problems but the stores are such a patchwork of decors and remodel qualities that they look different on the surface but when you dig deeper they are the same.

My Kroger got probably the worse remodel in the early 2000s...basically mauled a greenhouse into the boring decor they had circa 2001, took out the red perimeter stripe and replaced with white tile but it didn't match the rest of the store, just a nasty nasty place. All this happened when they started focusing on a new "Signature" store to the south part of town (it has since remodeled to the "Fresh Fare" décor, mostly) and basically abandoning that one.

The Albertsons branded stores already had a décor unification problem (at one time in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there were probably at least 3 or 4 new packages going in stores and this was compounded when SuperValu started to cheap out on remodels.

[architect]

My Kroger got probably the worse remodel in the early 2000s...basically mauled a greenhouse into the boring decor they had circa 2001, took out the red perimeter stripe and replaced with white tile but it didn't match the rest of the store, just a nasty nasty place. All this happened when they started focusing on a new "Signature" store to the south part of town (it has since remodeled to the "Fresh Fare" décor, mostly) and basically abandoning that one.

The Albertsons branded stores already had a décor unification problem (at one time in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there were probably at least 3 or 4 new packages going in stores and this was compounded when SuperValu started to cheap out on remodels.

There is a Kroger store similar to the one you described in the town where I went to college. The location is an old greenhouse that sadly had its front removed, with the decor only being partially replaced at the same time. Now, this store is essentially a shell of its former self, being superceded by a Signature store both to the south and another Signature store in the neighboring town to the north. Honestly, it is surprising that Kroger hasn't completely torn down this store and built anew, as this location is in close proximity to the university campus, and is just down the street from an H-E-B that does brisk business 24/7. The H-E-B parking lot is often completely full, while the Kroger is question will be essentially empty. Such a wasted opportunity.

[pseudo3d]

My Kroger got probably the worse remodel in the early 2000s...basically mauled a greenhouse into the boring decor they had circa 2001, took out the red perimeter stripe and replaced with white tile but it didn't match the rest of the store, just a nasty nasty place. All this happened when they started focusing on a new "Signature" store to the south part of town (it has since remodeled to the "Fresh Fare" décor, mostly) and basically abandoning that one.

The Albertsons branded stores already had a décor unification problem (at one time in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there were probably at least 3 or 4 new packages going in stores and this was compounded when SuperValu started to cheap out on remodels.

There is a Kroger store similar to the one you described in the town where I went to college. The location is an old greenhouse that sadly had its front removed, with the decor only being partially replaced at the same time. Now, this store is essentially a shell of its former self, being superceded by a Signature store both to the south and another Signature store in the neighboring town to the north. Honestly, it is surprising that Kroger hasn't completely torn down this store and built anew, as this location is in close proximity to the university campus, and is just down the street from an H-E-B that does brisk business 24/7. The H-E-B parking lot is often completely full, while the Kroger is question will be essentially empty. Such a wasted opportunity.

Actually, that sounds exactly like the store I'm talking about.