Pavilions?

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Re: Pavilions?

Post by HCal »

Dodgers2020 wrote: November 17th, 2020, 7:21 amVons is nothing special but they blow Savemart out the water was very suprised when a couple Vons locations shut down in Fresno back in 2015
Same thing happened in Bakersfield, I think the new Albertsons management was trying to cut the fat after the merger. But I don't think it had anything to do with Save Mart, it's probably due to the expansion of discount grocers like Winco, Walmart, Aldi, etc., taking customers away from Vons.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by HCal »

Bagels wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 2:32 am
I agree. There's simply too many trendy, upscale grocers throughout the Los Angeles area -- everything from Gelsons to Bristol to Erewhon, etc. -- and the Pavilions banner is just too battered for it to successfully grow market share in the arena.
I don't think Safeway/Albertsons cares about the market share of a particular banner. It's all part of the SoCal division, which is evaluated as one.

In my eyes, the main reason for the Pavilions banner is to appeal to the local customer base. Rich people in south Orange County may not want to shop at a mainstream supermarket like Vons :shock: So a different banner helps make those stores feel "special". But on the back end, it's mostly the same thing, other than a few minor differences in the perimeter service departments.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by BillyGr »

HCal wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 4:57 am I don't think Safeway/Albertsons cares about the market share of a particular banner. It's all part of the SoCal division, which is evaluated as one.

In my eyes, the main reason for the Pavilions banner is to appeal to the local customer base. Rich people in south Orange County may not want to shop at a mainstream supermarket like Vons :shock: So a different banner helps make those stores feel "special". But on the back end, it's mostly the same thing, other than a few minor differences in the perimeter service departments.
Also if those same people were in a different area, they will know not to expect the same things (such as those perimeter additions) in a different store if it is being run under a different name.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by Bagels »

BillyGr wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 1:24 pm
HCal wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 4:57 am I don't think Safeway/Albertsons cares about the market share of a particular banner. It's all part of the SoCal division, which is evaluated as one.

In my eyes, the main reason for the Pavilions banner is to appeal to the local customer base. Rich people in south Orange County may not want to shop at a mainstream supermarket like Vons :shock: So a different banner helps make those stores feel "special". But on the back end, it's mostly the same thing, other than a few minor differences in the perimeter service departments.
Also if those same people were in a different area, they will know not to expect the same things (such as those perimeter additions) in a different store if it is being run under a different name.
By the mid-2000s, there were minimal differences between the Pavilions and Vons concepts. Post-merger, Albertsons opted to re-banner several Pavilions as Vons, and re-boot the Pavilions concept in the remaining stores. These are also the only stores in Southern California to receive a total refurbishment.

Albertsons could've re-bannered all of the Pavilions as Vons -- remember, customers were already shopping at a store that was largely indistinguishable from a typical Vons, anyway. So instead of targeting Ralphs and Smart & Final customers in (e.g.) Newport Beach, Albertsons invested heavily in rebooting the Pavilions concept, and positioned these stores to take on Gelson's, Bristol Farms, Whole Foods, etc.

It's clearly not working. The standard Albertsons/VONS products have found their way into the produce (packaged salads and cut fruit), deli (prepared meals, sandwiches, soups, etc.) and bakery (various sweets). Many of the exotic produce, meat & seafood products are gone, as is the "take-and-bake" meals that had been featured in both the deli and meat departments.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 3:08 pm
By the mid-2000s, there were minimal differences between the Pavilions and Vons concepts. Post-merger, Albertsons opted to re-banner several Pavilions as Vons, and re-boot the Pavilions concept in the remaining stores. These are also the only stores in Southern California to receive a total refurbishment.

Albertsons could've re-bannered all of the Pavilions as Vons -- remember, customers were already shopping at a store that was largely indistinguishable from a typical Vons, anyway. So instead of targeting Ralphs and Smart & Final customers in (e.g.) Newport Beach, Albertsons invested heavily in rebooting the Pavilions concept, and positioned these stores to take on Gelson's, Bristol Farms, Whole Foods, etc.

It's clearly not working. The standard Albertsons/VONS products have found their way into the produce (packaged salads and cut fruit), deli (prepared meals, sandwiches, soups, etc.) and bakery (various sweets). Many of the exotic produce, meat & seafood products are gone, as is the "take-and-bake" meals that had been featured in both the deli and meat departments.
It didn't work because Safeway had already ruined Pavilions in the image of customers. The changes were not enough to bring customers back after Safeway had mishandled Pavilions for 15 years and run it mostly like a Vons, in a few cases like an above average Vons but not close to a Gelson's level of service (or in the case of some-few- Pavilions locations, even like a bad Vons).

They probably need a new banner and concept entirely. Maybe eventually they will purchase one of the established upscale operators in SoCal and convert the few viable Pavilions to that and the rest just rebanner to Vons and put Pavilions to rest. I am actually a little surprised they didn't purchase Gelson's. Maybe FTC concerns stopped that from happening.

Those remodeled Pavilions were also all over the investor materials they were throwing around to try and get investors behind that Rite Aid/Albertsons merger. I am not sure if those great remodels were more to make good showpieces for their investor booklets... recall the two Boise concept stores were still in development at that time.

What is interesting is the person who currently is president of Albertsons SoCal (entire division) was initially hired in 2018 just to run Pavilions. I'm wondering if they put someone else into that position to run Pavilions or just didn't. If they didn't put someone else into that position to run Pavilions when they moved him to run the entire division, that would be very similar to what happened to Pavilions under Safeway. Safeway didn't exactly just one day decide to gut Pavilions of its leadership and unique qualities, rather they just moved people around and it ended up the Pavilions people got put into more expanded roles and as a result there was no longer as large or strong of a team focused on the Pavilions format so the focus and uniqueness drifted...
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by J-Man »

Albertsons could've re-bannered all of the Pavilions as Vons
The two Pavilions closest to me were both re-bannered as Vons.

To me, what Southern California is really missing is a store like Wegman's or Central Market. That is, a large, upscale market that carries just about everything.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: March 22nd, 2021, 11:58 pm It didn't work because Safeway had already ruined Pavilions in the image of customers. The changes were not enough to bring customers back after Safeway had mishandled Pavilions for 15 years and run it mostly like a Vons, in a few cases like an above average Vons but not close to a Gelson's level of service (or in the case of some-few- Pavilions locations, even like a bad Vons).

They probably need a new banner and concept entirely. Maybe eventually they will purchase one of the established upscale operators in SoCal and convert the few viable Pavilions to that and the rest just rebanner to Vons and put Pavilions to rest. I am actually a little surprised they didn't purchase Gelson's. Maybe FTC concerns stopped that from happening.

Those remodeled Pavilions were also all over the investor materials they were throwing around to try and get investors behind that Rite Aid/Albertsons merger. I am not sure if those great remodels were more to make good showpieces for their investor booklets... recall the two Boise concept stores were still in development at that time.

What is interesting is the person who currently is president of Albertsons SoCal (entire division) was initially hired in 2018 just to run Pavilions. I'm wondering if they put someone else into that position to run Pavilions or just didn't. If they didn't put someone else into that position to run Pavilions when they moved him to run the entire division, that would be very similar to what happened to Pavilions under Safeway. Safeway didn't exactly just one day decide to gut Pavilions of its leadership and unique qualities, rather they just moved people around and it ended up the Pavilions people got put into more expanded roles and as a result there was no longer as large or strong of a team focused on the Pavilions format so the focus and uniqueness drifted...
I don't disagree. Many of the later Pavilions remodels cut corners. At the Newport Beach locations, for example, they opted not to replace the shelving and flooring surrounding the shelving, but most everything else is brand new. Thus, the worn-out shelves stick out like a sore thumb. Not a great look for a store carrying $100+ floral assortments.

Disappointing, considering the concept they rolled out several years ago was a head turner.
J-Man wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 7:43 am
Albertsons could've re-bannered all of the Pavilions as Vons
The two Pavilions closest to me were both re-bannered as Vons.

To me, what Southern California is really missing is a store like Wegman's or Central Market. That is, a large, upscale market that carries just about everything.
The Pavilions reboot turned it into a destination grocer. Problem is, many of the features -- wine and beer tasting (served in frosted mugs), gelato bar, in-store kitchen, etc. were yanked well before the final stores were renovated. Many other features -- expanded prepared foods selection, cut produce, etc. -- didn't last much longer.

I would love to see an Albertsons Market concept, but there's two problems: (a) the chain's local everyday prices are simply too high for mainstream shoppers and (b) there's simply too much competition. Albertsons/Vons pricing may be the highest of any large, traditional supermarket division in the country -- there's a fairly large number of SKUS that sell for double and even triple that of Walmart/Target. Regarding point B, walk into any Albertsons, Vons or Ralphs at the end of the day, and watch how much chicken is dumped. Or how many carts are filled with sweets that are destined for the trash.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by klkla »

storewanderer wrote: March 21st, 2021, 1:01 pm It appears the attempt to reboot Pavilions a few years ago as an upscale/unique format (right around when they were trying tThere are too many others in SoCal doing this format who have a longer term relationship with their customers (Gelsons, Bristol, etc.), strong service levels and very professional employees who understand how to run an upscale format. Pavilions was run like a dim dark boring Vons with tight expense controls that severely hurt mix, service, and attitude for too long- that is a stink you cannot quickly wash away with some bright upscale remodels.
The only Pavilions that's I've been to since the Pandemic started is the new Sherman Oaks store and that store was able to operate on a level as good and in some cases even better than Gelson's or Bristol Farms. I'll have to go out there again soon and see if they're still maintaining the high standards they had when the store first opened. It would be a shame if they didn't follow through and let standards slip.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 2:28 pm
The Pavilions reboot turned it into a destination grocer. Problem is, many of the features -- wine and beer tasting (served in frosted mugs), gelato bar, in-store kitchen, etc. were yanked well before the final stores were renovated. Many other features -- expanded prepared foods selection, cut produce, etc. -- didn't last much longer.

I would love to see an Albertsons Market concept, but there's two problems: (a) the chain's local everyday prices are simply too high for mainstream shoppers and (b) there's simply too much competition. Albertsons/Vons pricing may be the highest of any large, traditional supermarket division in the country -- there's a fairly large number of SKUS that sell for double and even triple that of Walmart/Target. Regarding point B, walk into any Albertsons, Vons or Ralphs at the end of the day, and watch how much chicken is dumped. Or how many carts are filled with sweets that are destined for the trash.
They could price a larger format/new concept store differently if they wanted to. I saw Kroger do that with Marketplace format stores in the past, specifically on national brand center store items.

But the better concept with Pavilions vs. trying to slug it out on who is going to have the best deal in a given week on a bag of Starbucks coffee would be to pull in unique items or additional SKUs of unique items not sold at the usual Vons/Albertsons and promote that stuff. Find some less common imported or regional items, bring in more SKUs, and promote those items with a strong price point and more SKUs than a typical conventional has.

The entire industry really needs to get a handle on shrink on some of these items you describe like the chicken and some of the bakery items across the different grocers and even Wal Mart. You can only sell so much inedible looking cold chicken, make so much chicken salad, and make so much garlic bread out of day old french bread. But this has been going on for decades now with all this shrink and it does not seem to ever change.
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Re: Pavilions?

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: March 23rd, 2021, 6:04 pm They could price a larger format/new concept store differently if they wanted to. I saw Kroger do that with Marketplace format stores in the past, specifically on national brand center store items.

But the better concept with Pavilions vs. trying to slug it out on who is going to have the best deal in a given week on a bag of Starbucks coffee would be to pull in unique items or additional SKUs of unique items not sold at the usual Vons/Albertsons and promote that stuff. Find some less common imported or regional items, bring in more SKUs, and promote those items with a strong price point and more SKUs than a typical conventional has.

The entire industry really needs to get a handle on shrink on some of these items you describe like the chicken and some of the bakery items across the different grocers and even Wal Mart. You can only sell so much inedible looking cold chicken, make so much chicken salad, and make so much garlic bread out of day old french bread. But this has been going on for decades now with all this shrink and it does not seem to ever change.
Having a different set of SKUs for Pavilions might be a logistical challenge though. Pavilions is supplied from the same distribution centers as Vons (and now Albertsons, I assume) and the Pavilions stores are kind of scattered around.

As for shrink on fresh items, this is one of my pet peeves. I wish they would at least donate to food banks or something. But financially, I'm sure the appearance of abundance drives sales, and margins are probably high enough that this approach maximizes profits.
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