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Re: Pavilions?

Posted: November 9th, 2020, 10:23 am
by klkla
storewanderer wrote: November 8th, 2020, 1:03 pm A similar new build Safeway, I mean "Pavilions," was built out in Woodland Hills in what I'd call a high traffic location but higher competition location around the same time and ultimately closed.
They broke the cardinal rule of supermarket construction in suburban areas of Los Angeles: Always build on streets with a freeway exit. The store sat directly between the Winnetka and Tampa exits of the 101 Freeway.

The Ralphs on Winnetka has been expanded and remodeled many times. It's a very high volume store. Very few people would drive out of their way to go to Pavilions when Ralphs was so much easier.

The Tampa exit doesn't have any major shopping centers and is one of the lowest traffic sections on Ventura Blvd. Reseda is the next exit after that and is the busier of the three and has a Gelson's, Vons and Whole Foods.

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: November 17th, 2020, 7:19 am
by Dodgers2020
storewanderer wrote: September 6th, 2020, 10:48 am Did they do a store remodel or something in conjunction with the banner change?

As more and more old grocery people in upper management have been retiring or leaving Albertsons and being replaced by people who may have food industry background but not grocery retail background, I think we are seeing some interesting decisions being made and we will see how things play out.

With that said, I think Vons is a trash operation based on my multiple experiences with that Mammoth Lakes Store and the absolutely terrible Bishop Store, and the name Vons should be downplayed as much as possible. If they want to run a seriously good store with a large perimeter and strong execution they should use the Pavilions name, if they can actually execute properly which I have doubts of. If they want to run a clean, large, strong center store mix medium volume basic store they should probably use the Albertsons banner; they seem to be able to run that banner okay on the central coast and around San Diego... They can save the Vons banner for smaller, run down, outdated stores which is what the most productive Vons Stores are- captive audience locatons that will tolerate long lines, high prices, and a dirty outdated store. At least the company was smart enough to take Las Vegas away from Vons and give it to Southwest to run and took Fresno away from Vons and gave it to NorCal to run (not sure if Fresno was a gift or a last ditch effort to save a long failing market)- pretty bad when a division gets markets taken away from it like that; speaks volumes as to the situation there.
I live in Fresno and the Vons here are a mess. Prior to 2014-2015 we had the same ads and were serviced from the Vons distribution center down in LA then they switched over to getting shipments from Safeway up in Tracy and the weekly ad is a mess it’s basically a Safeway ad with Vons slapped on there. The bags and carts say Safeway on them even some of the employees wear Safeway tags it’s a big mess lol . I don’t understand why they gave up the Vons banner in Fresno to Safeway it just makes things down here look very sloppy and unprofessional. It would have made more sense to just keep it as it was but I don’t know what corporate is trying achieve

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: November 17th, 2020, 7:21 am
by Dodgers2020
CalItalian wrote: September 9th, 2020, 11:36 am
storewanderer wrote: September 7th, 2020, 11:56 am
Bluelightspecial wrote: September 7th, 2020, 1:50 am
I'm not sure how you can call Vons stores "trash" based on two remote stores and also say "at this point most of what is left of Albertsons in SoCal is pretty nice stores". Both are in the same division and I'm guessing run by the same people. Having been in both one of the Ridgecrest and Taft Albertsons stores recently and I can tell you they were far from "pretty nice"
I've been to lots of Vons throughout SoCal as well as Las Vegas. I've come across more than a few small, lousy, stores that may have lifestyle interiors but are generally in poor condition and have lousy execution and are poorly staffed. Generaly speaking Vons Stores just come across as boring and bland- nothing inspiring about them at all. They don't do anything particularly well. They are simply a lousy chain.

I think Vons knew what it was doing (before Safeway bought it out) and that was why they came up with Pavilions in the first place. There was no "wow" factor to the standard Vons operation, it was a boring and bland operation with very basic stores. Then Safeway comes in, basically dilutes Pavilions into a standard Safeway in the early 00's, then tries to bring it slightly more upscale again in the Lifestyle program, but doesn't get it even close to back to the level it had been at in the mid 90's. Then, Safeway starts to make random Vons Stores into the more "upscale" Lifestyle format with questionable execution, plus you can only do so much to a 40 year old 35k square foot store.

Back to Vons I've been to, which are many, I can cite many examples that stand out as trash operations. For instance, north of Disney in Anaheim, that store is a complete dump despite its lifestyle interior. There is another one south of Disney in Anaheim which is even more of a dump (it has the cheap Lifestyle interior with hanging signs, not even wall lettering). They did manage to close most of the lousy ones around Fresno but they had some real winners around there (you can imagine how bad they were, for Save Mart to put them out of business...). The two near the strip in Las Vegas are also absolutely terrible stores for one reason or another (though the larger non-lifestyle one on Twain, once you get past the not so safe feeling parking lot, is nicer inside than the smaller lifestyle one nearby). Sure, there are some nice Vons out there. For instance one time I went into the La Jolla Vons which was actually quite nice and in good shape with its perimeter execution. I crossed the freeway somewhere around there and ended up at some other Vons which was a smaller older store but looked like a pretty good neighborhood. The whole place smelled like a bathroom or rotten eggs, I don't know how anyone was even shopping in the place, the store looked fine, but the odor... Also that lousy Vons in Sun City- is that thing still open? How about the Santa Maria Vons (the one that is still open... both they had there were quite lousy but Safeway kept the lousier one open). I know they managed to get rid of the dumpy Vons in Lakeside and pawned Los Osos off on Haggen so they have managed to get rid of some crummy stores.

I am sure these stores make money though...

Never been to Taft- but store doesn't look great in photos. Not really any worse looking in photos than a Vons; same typical problems; tiles coming up on the floors, generally dated atmosphere, etc. Where are the other stores left that are in a similar condition to the older smaller Albertsons in Ridgecrest in SoCal Division? The larger Ridgecrest Albertsons is in fine condition (certainly no worse than a typical Lifestyle Vons). Recall the Vons in Ridgecrest went out of business a few years ago. Would not surprise me if the 2 stores in Ridgecrest have the same regional/district management as Bishop and Mammoth Lakes so that may also explain why you were not very impressed with what you saw.
The Sun City (Menifee) Vons is still open. It's a VERY busy store (including the pharmacy). They keep it clean and well stocked. Yes, it needs a remodel BADLY. I don't shop at it very often just for that reason. The tiles on the floor are worn to the point they show the concrete floor under in some areas. It has to be at least 25-30 years since this store has seen a remodel. 1000 new homes are just about to be built (east) across the freeway from it so hopefully it will get one in the near future. An equally or worse Stater Bros a few hundred feet away are the only supermarkets in that area. I know a longtime Vons/Pavilions employee who recently transferred to that location and she's very happy with the staff there who are all very well trained.
Vons is nothing special but they blow Savemart out the water was very suprised when a couple Vons locations shut down in Fresno back in 2015

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 18th, 2021, 11:17 am
by Bagels
We purchase most of our "party" (family, friends, office, etc.) cakes from Pavilions. Recently, I had noticed their selection had changed and when I asked the associate if I could special order a specific cake, I was told they had refreshed their line-up and that wasn't an option.

Well, last night I stopped at the Newport Coast location. While looking through the displays, an employee dropped off a pallet of refrigerated & frozen items and WOW, was I surprised. Apparently most of their sweets -- including cakes, cheese cakes, bread, bagels and more -- are now purchased pre-made, and trucked in frozen across the country (the cakes and bagels indicated they were baked in New York). It appears they still modify the goodies in store, but it's a drastic change from the signage that until recently promoted that all cakes were baked from scratch.

So now they want to charge more for a cake that was baked & trucked frozen for 2,600+ miles. I think I'll take my business elsewhere.

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 18th, 2021, 11:52 am
by klkla
Bagels wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:17 am So now they want to charge more for a cake that was baked & trucked frozen for 2,600+ miles. I think I'll take my business elsewhere.
FWIW the cakes were already frozen in the 1990's when I worked for them.

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 18th, 2021, 12:03 pm
by Bagels
klkla wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:52 am
Bagels wrote: March 18th, 2021, 11:17 am So now they want to charge more for a cake that was baked & trucked frozen for 2,600+ miles. I think I'll take my business elsewhere.
FWIW the cakes were already frozen in the 1990's when I worked for them.
I think when Albertsons tried to reboot the brand, they changed to scratch. They’ve been marketing such in recent years, although as they’ve cut back on premium items and replaced them with generic VONS/Albertsons stuff, they’ve changed the verbiage to ‘items within the display case.’

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 21st, 2021, 1:01 pm
by storewanderer
It appears the attempt to reboot Pavilions a few years ago as an upscale/unique format (right around when they were trying the Rite Aid merger) has sort of hit the skids and Pavilions is being run oddly again. My guess is they have not done as well as they had hoped with this initiative. There are too many others in SoCal doing this format who have a longer term relationship with their customers (Gelsons, Bristol, etc.), strong service levels and very professional employees who understand how to run an upscale format. Pavilions was run like a dim dark boring Vons with tight expense controls that severely hurt mix, service, and attitude for too long- that is a stink you cannot quickly wash away with some bright upscale remodels.

I think they would be better off trying the Albertsons Market Street concept in Portland, Seattle, and some other markets IF (and that is a big IF) they can execute it the way it is being executed in Boise. Perhaps in Denver and Phoenix too. But they did it in Boise- they put the resources into it and put together two stores there that are great upscale formats, operated well, good employees, great execution... I think they could pull it together in these other larger markets too if they put the resources into it they have in Boise.

But I guess the question I would ask is how is the quality of this new stuff they have brought in that is frozen? I guess if the quality of the frozen product is equal to or better than the quality of their scratch product, it is okay? What about the ingredient list on the frozen product vs. the scratch product- in terms of how clean the ingredients list is? Also a factor...

NorCal Safeway switched to frozen layer cakes many years ago (perhaps 15+ years ago). Before they did a scratch mix in store similar to the french bread and donuts. At least most of Safeway's cakes are still decorated in the store. At many other chains the whole cake is pre-decorated at the factory then frozen and in many cases (especially at Kroger and Wal Mart) put straight onto the display pre-packaged right out of the box. Same level of effort to stock and display that "fresh bakery" cake as goes into stocking a frozen dinner on the freezer aisle.

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 21st, 2021, 9:03 pm
by marshd1000
storewanderer wrote: March 21st, 2021, 1:01 pm It appears the attempt to reboot Pavilions a few years ago as an upscale/unique format (right around when they were trying the Rite Aid merger) has sort of hit the skids and Pavilions is being run oddly again. My guess is they have not done as well as they had hoped with this initiative. There are too many others in SoCal doing this format who have a longer term relationship with their customers (Gelsons, Bristol, etc.), strong service levels and very professional employees who understand how to run an upscale format. Pavilions was run like a dim dark boring Vons with tight expense controls that severely hurt mix, service, and attitude for too long- that is a stink you cannot quickly wash away with some bright upscale remodels.

I think they would be better off trying the Albertsons Market Street concept in Portland, Seattle, and some other markets IF (and that is a big IF) they can execute it the way it is being executed in Boise. Perhaps in Denver and Phoenix too. But they did it in Boise- they put the resources into it and put together two stores there that are great upscale formats, operated well, good employees, great execution... I think they could pull it together in these other larger markets too if they put the resources into it they have in Boise.

But I guess the question I would ask is how is the quality of this new stuff they have brought in that is frozen? I guess if the quality of the frozen product is equal to or better than the quality of their scratch product, it is okay? What about the ingredient list on the frozen product vs. the scratch product- in terms of how clean the ingredients list is? Also a factor...

NorCal Safeway switched to frozen layer cakes many years ago (perhaps 15+ years ago). Before they did a scratch mix in store similar to the french bread and donuts. At least most of Safeway's cakes are still decorated in the store. At many other chains the whole cake is pre-decorated at the factory then frozen and in many cases (especially at Kroger and Wal Mart) put straight onto the display pre-packaged right out of the box. Same level of effort to stock and display that "fresh bakery" cake as goes into stocking a frozen dinner on the freezer aisle.
Albertsons or most likely Safeway Market Street could work in Seattle. But I would put it in the Haggen management hands for the service departments and in purchasing the speciality items. But with the examples in Boise, those stores run a conventional Albertsons ad for regular items and a special flyer for Albertsons Market Street and the Broadway store in Boise. The legacy Haggens are run well. If there had not been the Haggen fiasco, I would promote a Haggen expansion. Existing stores do well but not sure expansion would go well . But while I don’t think the current Haggen stores should be re-bannered, any potential Safeway Market Street stores should only be in Seattle, Tacoma or Bellevue or Eastern Washington. They should leave Haggen alone in the other suburbs or NW Washington!

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 21st, 2021, 10:16 pm
by storewanderer
marshd1000 wrote: March 21st, 2021, 9:03 pm
Albertsons or most likely Safeway Market Street could work in Seattle. But I would put it in the Haggen management hands for the service departments and in purchasing the speciality items. But with the examples in Boise, those stores run a conventional Albertsons ad for regular items and a special flyer for Albertsons Market Street and the Broadway store in Boise. The legacy Haggens are run well. If there had not been the Haggen fiasco, I would promote a Haggen expansion. Existing stores do well but not sure expansion would go well . But while I don’t think the current Haggen stores should be re-bannered, any potential Safeway Market Street stores should only be in Seattle, Tacoma or Bellevue or Eastern Washington. They should leave Haggen alone in the other suburbs or NW Washington!
They appear to be trying to keep Haggen running its own programs from what it appears. I think the messy expansion of the divested Albertsons Stores was so short that it did not mess up the image of Haggen too much. Haggen always handled Seattle rather oddly given the number of Top Foods, then conversions to Haggen, and quite a few closures even before the whole Albertsons thing happened and in those old closures it seemed like Haggen (or Top Foods) ran a nice store but still had little traffic for whatever reason (pricing seemed to be a problem- in a few cases location also appeared to be a problem). But when you look at the core stores left under Haggen at the immediate moment, they do very well. Even down in Olympia they have a high performing Haggen Store. They just need to get the stores into the right locations and then they will do well, the quality sells itself.

Re: Pavilions?

Posted: March 22nd, 2021, 2:32 am
by Bagels
storewanderer wrote: March 21st, 2021, 1:01 pm It appears the attempt to reboot Pavilions a few years ago as an upscale/unique format (right around when they were trying the Rite Aid merger) has sort of hit the skids and Pavilions is being run oddly again. My guess is they have not done as well as they had hoped with this initiative. There are too many others in SoCal doing this format who have a longer term relationship with their customers (Gelsons, Bristol, etc.), strong service levels and very professional employees who understand how to run an upscale format. Pavilions was run like a dim dark boring Vons with tight expense controls that severely hurt mix, service, and attitude for too long- that is a stink you cannot quickly wash away with some bright upscale remodels.
I agree. There's simply too many trendy, upscale grocers throughout the Los Angeles area -- everything from Gelsons to Bristol to Erewhon, etc. -- and the Pavilions banner is just too battered for it to successfully grow market share in the arena.
I think they would be better off trying the Albertsons Market Street concept in Portland, Seattle, and some other markets IF (and that is a big IF) they can execute it the way it is being executed in Boise. Perhaps in Denver and Phoenix too. But they did it in Boise- they put the resources into it and put together two stores there that are great upscale formats, operated well, good employees, great execution... I think they could pull it together in these other larger markets too if they put the resources into it they have in Boise.
The Market Street concept seems geared more toward foodies than folks with deep pockets. IMO, the format could be successful in any market where Albertsons' various banners don't have a poor reputation.
But I guess the question I would ask is how is the quality of this new stuff they have brought in that is frozen? I guess if the quality of the frozen product is equal to or better than the quality of their scratch product, it is okay? What about the ingredient list on the frozen product vs. the scratch product- in terms of how clean the ingredients list is? Also a factor...

NorCal Safeway switched to frozen layer cakes many years ago (perhaps 15+ years ago). Before they did a scratch mix in store similar to the french bread and donuts. At least most of Safeway's cakes are still decorated in the store. At many other chains the whole cake is pre-decorated at the factory then frozen and in many cases (especially at Kroger and Wal Mart) put straight onto the display pre-packaged right out of the box. Same level of effort to stock and display that "fresh bakery" cake as goes into stocking a frozen dinner on the freezer aisle.
Pavilions is still decorating the cakes in-store, but the one we bought had a strong "ice box odor" taste. You bring up some rare points, but rare is the quality of a "fresh" product that's been trucked frozen for over 2,600 miles justify a premium at an upscale store. Walmart charges $5 for its small cakes, whereas Pavilions charges $11 for nearly the same size. ...