Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by storewanderer »

BillyGr wrote: December 11th, 2020, 8:35 am
OK, aside from someone coming in who doesn't eat meat but will eat dairy and not wanting their cheese to possibly have meat juice on it (and that's likely to be a small number of people out of the total customers), what is the issue?

All the items that they are slicing are designed to be eaten as is (that is, already cooked, so no issues that would occur with raw meat), and most likely if someone is ordering meat and cheese they are going to put both together at home anyhow on a sandwich.
There are a few issues.

First, it can create a flavor issue if the items are not being eaten together. For instance, we may buy the ham and swiss to eat a ham and swiss sandwich, but what if someone is buying them to eat separately and doesn't want their plain swiss to have a ham flavor in some of the slices?

There is also a texture issue. While dairy (cheese) is smooth and creamy, the lunchmeats are more of a watery/pasty texture. If you run both through the same slicer with the same blade (uncleaned) the combination of gunk built up from meat and cheese turns into a paste that impacts the performance of the slicer and slicer blade and will impact the slicer's ability to make a smooth, clean slice over time.

You could, theoretically, run both through the same slicer, if you disassemble it and clean the blade between the slicing of the meat and the slicing of the cheese, and not harm the blade.

There is also a potential appearance issue. Run some muenster (bright yellow) through the slicer then run some turkey (white) through and your turkey slices will have odd bright yellow spots that some folks may not know is from the cheese and think something is wrong with the turkey.

Also- run some pepper turkey or pepper ham through the slicer and then run cheese through and you will have pepper debris on the initial cheese slices that are sliced if you use the same slicer.

Another thing is if slicing at a standard thickness, typically the cheese is sliced a little thicker than the meat.

With all of that said, there is a sub chain in my area called Port of Subs. Their "thing" is sliced in front of you when you order. There is one slicer. The meat and cheese are sliced through the same slicer, nothing is cleaned in between. It has been that way since the 80's. Maybe they get away with it without harming their slicer since they are slicing a few slices at a time.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by veteran+ »

BillyGr wrote: December 11th, 2020, 8:35 am
veteran+ wrote: December 10th, 2020, 5:05 am BTW.................here in Southern Cali I have caught many clerks using the same slicer for cheese and meat (man, did I lose it). I noticed this as a customer and manager.
OK, aside from someone coming in who doesn't eat meat but will eat dairy and not wanting their cheese to possibly have meat juice on it (and that's likely to be a small number of people out of the total customers), what is the issue?

All the items that they are slicing are designed to be eaten as is (that is, already cooked, so no issues that would occur with raw meat), and most likely if someone is ordering meat and cheese they are going to put both together at home anyhow on a sandwich.

Not to mention that most places make platters for events (OK, at least in years not ending in 20) where the meats and cheese are placed touching each other, even if they weren't done on the same slicing machine.
It is about cross contamination issues. What consumers do when they take custody of food is on them.

Health and Food safety orgs (federal, state and local) would explain to you why. All food handlers must be certified and managers are certified at a higher criteria.

Google it..........it is very well explained.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: December 11th, 2020, 9:25 pm
BillyGr wrote: December 11th, 2020, 8:35 am
OK, aside from someone coming in who doesn't eat meat but will eat dairy and not wanting their cheese to possibly have meat juice on it (and that's likely to be a small number of people out of the total customers), what is the issue?

All the items that they are slicing are designed to be eaten as is (that is, already cooked, so no issues that would occur with raw meat), and most likely if someone is ordering meat and cheese they are going to put both together at home anyhow on a sandwich.
There are a few issues.

First, it can create a flavor issue if the items are not being eaten together. For instance, we may buy the ham and swiss to eat a ham and swiss sandwich, but what if someone is buying them to eat separately and doesn't want their plain swiss to have a ham flavor in some of the slices?

There is also a texture issue. While dairy (cheese) is smooth and creamy, the lunchmeats are more of a watery/pasty texture. If you run both through the same slicer with the same blade (uncleaned) the combination of gunk built up from meat and cheese turns into a paste that impacts the performance of the slicer and slicer blade and will impact the slicer's ability to make a smooth, clean slice over time.

You could, theoretically, run both through the same slicer, if you disassemble it and clean the blade between the slicing of the meat and the slicing of the cheese, and not harm the blade.

There is also a potential appearance issue. Run some muenster (bright yellow) through the slicer then run some turkey (white) through and your turkey slices will have odd bright yellow spots that some folks may not know is from the cheese and think something is wrong with the turkey.

Also- run some pepper turkey or pepper ham through the slicer and then run cheese through and you will have pepper debris on the initial cheese slices that are sliced if you use the same slicer.

Another thing is if slicing at a standard thickness, typically the cheese is sliced a little thicker than the meat.

With all of that said, there is a sub chain in my area called Port of Subs. Their "thing" is sliced in front of you when you order. There is one slicer. The meat and cheese are sliced through the same slicer, nothing is cleaned in between. It has been that way since the 80's. Maybe they get away with it without harming their slicer since they are slicing a few slices at a time.

You make some very valid points, much of which is brought up in training sessions for employees.


But...............the overwhelming subject of training is about food safety and health issues AND operating safety issues including PPE.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by Brian Lutz »

I believe Fred Meyer still uses their own fried chicken recipe that predates the Kroger merger, When I worked near one they had a combo for 2 pieces of chicken or half a pound of chicken strips, a side (typically a half pound of jo-jos or half a pound of something from the cold deli case) and a biscuit (the biscuits weren't all that great) for something like $4, but this was some time ago. I haven't had it in quite some time, but it was generally pretty good for fast food fried chicken. Their other hot food tends to be rather hit-or-miss though. I've also never been all that impressed with QFC's hot foods, although once again it's been a while since I've tried them.

I think the best grocery store chicken I've had was from Albertson's, and I believe Safeway stores adopted that recipe after the merger. I was never all that impressed with Safeway chicken, but rarely got it anyway since if I'm buying hot food from Safeway it's usually the China Express stuff anyway.

And although not directly related, QFC stores have Top Pot donuts in their bakeries. They're not quite the same thing you would get at an actual Top Pot store (for one thing they tend to be smaller) but they're still a lot better than most grocery store donuts.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by marshd1000 »

Brian Lutz wrote: December 14th, 2020, 9:19 am I believe Fred Meyer still uses their own fried chicken recipe that predates the Kroger merger, When I worked near one they had a combo for 2 pieces of chicken or half a pound of chicken strips, a side (typically a half pound of jo-jos or half a pound of something from the cold deli case) and a biscuit (the biscuits weren't all that great) for something like $4, but this was some time ago. I haven't had it in quite some time, but it was generally pretty good for fast food fried chicken. Their other hot food tends to be rather hit-or-miss though. I've also never been all that impressed with QFC's hot foods, although once again it's been a while since I've tried them.

I think the best grocery store chicken I've had was from Albertson's, and I believe Safeway stores adopted that recipe after the merger. I was never all that impressed with Safeway chicken, but rarely got it anyway since if I'm buying hot food from Safeway it's usually the China Express stuff anyway.

And although not directly related, QFC stores have Top Pot donuts in their bakeries. They're not quite the same thing you would get at an actual Top Pot store (for one thing they tend to be smaller) but they're still a lot better than most grocery store donuts.
Some Fred Meyer stores also carry Top Pot. I live near the Benson Plaza Fred Meyer in Renton, near Fairwood. Renton Center Fred Meyer in Downtown Renton has generic bakery donuts. So I am guessing that Freddies in more affluent neighborhoods would have Top Pot. So I would guess Bellevue and Gig Harbor amongst others, would have them too!
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by storewanderer »

Brian Lutz wrote: December 14th, 2020, 9:19 am I believe Fred Meyer still uses their own fried chicken recipe that predates the Kroger merger, When I worked near one they had a combo for 2 pieces of chicken or half a pound of chicken strips, a side (typically a half pound of jo-jos or half a pound of something from the cold deli case) and a biscuit (the biscuits weren't all that great) for something like $4, but this was some time ago. I haven't had it in quite some time, but it was generally pretty good for fast food fried chicken. Their other hot food tends to be rather hit-or-miss though. I've also never been all that impressed with QFC's hot foods, although once again it's been a while since I've tried them.

I think the best grocery store chicken I've had was from Albertson's, and I believe Safeway stores adopted that recipe after the merger. I was never all that impressed with Safeway chicken, but rarely got it anyway since if I'm buying hot food from Safeway it's usually the China Express stuff anyway.

And although not directly related, QFC stores have Top Pot donuts in their bakeries. They're not quite the same thing you would get at an actual Top Pot store (for one thing they tend to be smaller) but they're still a lot better than most grocery store donuts.
I think Fred Meyer still uses a different chicken program and also tends to have much larger piece sizes than the typical Kroger fried chicken. I found the baked chicken at Fred Meyer to be very good. QFC fried chicken seemed to be standard Kroger stuff (variable quality depending on the day). However Albertsons chicken program is much better than any of these (both for baked and fried). Safeway/Vons chicken seems to have variable quality depending on the day but if they get it right, and more often than not they do, it is excellent.

As far as fried chicken goes though, I think that Chester program at King Soopers tops all of them in terms of quality and consistency. Chester program tends to be crunchier and a more Popeyes-like chicken. Also they have original or spicy.

Kroger has another fried chicken program called "Chicken Co" which basically tries to mimic KFC Original Recipe. One store in my area has/had this program (I can't tell if they still have it) and the chicken definitely tastes like a bad knockoff of KFC- it is overly salty, greasy, and slimy. It closes promptly at or before 7 PM. I am not impressed with this program at all in any way. Their side items are a ripoff- they charge $2 for a 4oz side (same sides would be $1.99-$2.99/lb at a normal Smiths deli). Even their biscuit which seems promising as they serve it hot/baked, is too salty- so salty I could not even eat it. And I like salt.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by babs »

storewanderer wrote: December 14th, 2020, 6:15 pm
Brian Lutz wrote: December 14th, 2020, 9:19 am I believe Fred Meyer still uses their own fried chicken recipe that predates the Kroger merger, When I worked near one they had a combo for 2 pieces of chicken or half a pound of chicken strips, a side (typically a half pound of jo-jos or half a pound of something from the cold deli case) and a biscuit (the biscuits weren't all that great) for something like $4, but this was some time ago. I haven't had it in quite some time, but it was generally pretty good for fast food fried chicken. Their other hot food tends to be rather hit-or-miss though. I've also never been all that impressed with QFC's hot foods, although once again it's been a while since I've tried them.

I think the best grocery store chicken I've had was from Albertson's, and I believe Safeway stores adopted that recipe after the merger. I was never all that impressed with Safeway chicken, but rarely got it anyway since if I'm buying hot food from Safeway it's usually the China Express stuff anyway.

And although not directly related, QFC stores have Top Pot donuts in their bakeries. They're not quite the same thing you would get at an actual Top Pot store (for one thing they tend to be smaller) but they're still a lot better than most grocery store donuts.
I think Fred Meyer still uses a different chicken program and also tends to have much larger piece sizes than the typical Kroger fried chicken. I found the baked chicken at Fred Meyer to be very good. QFC fried chicken seemed to be standard Kroger stuff (variable quality depending on the day). However Albertsons chicken program is much better than any of these (both for baked and fried). Safeway/Vons chicken seems to have variable quality depending on the day but if they get it right, and more often than not they do, it is excellent.

As far as fried chicken goes though, I think that Chester program at King Soopers tops all of them in terms of quality and consistency. Chester program tends to be crunchier and a more Popeyes-like chicken. Also they have original or spicy.

Kroger has another fried chicken program called "Chicken Co" which basically tries to mimic KFC Original Recipe. One store in my area has/had this program (I can't tell if they still have it) and the chicken definitely tastes like a bad knockoff of KFC- it is overly salty, greasy, and slimy. It closes promptly at or before 7 PM. I am not impressed with this program at all in any way. Their side items are a ripoff- they charge $2 for a 4oz side (same sides would be $1.99-$2.99/lb at a normal Smiths deli). Even their biscuit which seems promising as they serve it hot/baked, is too salty- so salty I could not even eat it. And I like salt.
The Fred Meyer stores in much of the Portland market have switched over to the Chicken Co format. Tried it once and it's classic grocery store fried chicken. Also found it odd that the chicken is no longer on display in a case. They pull it out of an oven behind the counter.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by storewanderer »

babs wrote: December 14th, 2020, 8:43 pm
The Fred Meyer stores in much of the Portland market have switched over to the Chicken Co format. Tried it once and it's classic grocery store fried chicken. Also found it odd that the chicken is no longer on display in a case. They pull it out of an oven behind the counter.
The store here put a small warmer with glass on all sides on the counter that they put some chicken into. It is a very small warmer, it looks about the size of a popcorn machine. There was confusion with this format where the food was all behind the counter (in holding warmers that that are identical to entirely closed/no window ones KFC holds batches of food in the back-away from customer view areas- of its locations in), that they did not have any chicken. That holding bin they are using is supposedly part of the format and is supposed to keep the chicken more moist than the standard customer view glass hot case.

One of the probably early "Chicken Co" in a Marketplace Store back in Ohio that I went to had the food behind the counter, but it was in a case that had glass doors and you could see all of the food. This seemed to be a better format, and I am sure the store was built with it. That one, was also filled from the back kitchen area.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by bryceleinan »

storewanderer wrote: December 6th, 2020, 12:23 am This BBQ and Mexican Food hot food counter has been removed from the Reno Smiths that had it, sometime in the past week or two. They took the small salad bar they had installed out earlier this year and reset in Murray's Cheese into that space. In light of COVID, the timing for removing the salad bar was just right.

As part of removing the BBQ and Mexican Food, they replaced the previous service counters with a self serve case for hot roast chickens (removed the larger and nicer looking island-type case where these were previously placed) and a second self serve case for prepacked store packed deli sliced lunchmeat (removed a temporary looking case that was plugged into a support beam where this was previously placed- this is an improvement).

Two years ago when they added this BBQ and Mexican Hot Food, Kroger screwed up this store's deli by cutting the size of the service deli case to add in these hot food counters back. And now rather than re-expand the service counter back to what it was before, they kept the cut down service counter and just moved self service offerings that were previously out in open space, into the previous service counter space. It also makes little functionally for employees because the remaining service chicken case is at the very end of the line, and the self serve hot food and the self serve sliced meat cases, are between the service chicken case and the other service deli counters.

Too bad- the BBQ and Mexican Food programs could have worked had Kroger designed the menu and offerings better and in a more flexible manner. I tried to buy just BBQ meat and they had no way to sell meat only- by the pound or something- you had to buy a "plate" with sides (the sides were awful). This failure is all on Kroger, Kroger's centralization efforts trying to treat every division the same, and its failure to listen to the divisions when something wasn't working and tweak the programs so it would work.

Oh well, the new Safeway that is opening nearby next year will have a very large deli and extensive hot foods available, including Chicken and Asian, and a service sandwich counter, based on the floor plans I saw over at the local building permit website. Would think Kroger would not be cutting offerings before a competitor opens nearby. This modern day centralized Kroger, sure runs differently than the old customer focused Kroger from 5-10 years ago.
I haven’t been in the South Meadows Smith’s for a while… I think Baring still has their new deli setup. Dayton’s was closed for a bit too. It reminded me of the Wilsonville, OR Fred Meyer setup and a little of what Raley’s did on Wedge Pkwy.

I agree with you on the Steamboat Safeway though - I’m really looking forward to that opening up.
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Re: Kroger Deli Hot Food Programs

Post by storewanderer »

bryceleinan wrote: February 7th, 2021, 6:49 am
I haven’t been in the South Meadows Smith’s for a while… I think Baring still has their new deli setup. Dayton’s was closed for a bit too. It reminded me of the Wilsonville, OR Fred Meyer setup and a little of what Raley’s did on Wedge Pkwy.

I agree with you on the Steamboat Safeway though - I’m really looking forward to that opening up.
Sparks Smiths still has what was the "Chicken Co" counter present but all branding of "Chicken Co" has been removed from the counter itself, packaging, menu board, and immediate posted signage (there may still be a fixture on the wall), and it is now just a generic hot chicken counter. Pricing on some items seems to still be higher than other Smiths. They still attempt to charge $2 for a 4oz cup of mashed potato or macaroni and cheese. Some of the items they carry are now branded as "Home Chef" (chicken strips, popcorn chicken, roast chicken) similar to other Smiths.

If Kroger had any clue what they were doing with hot food they would roll out the Chester program that King Soopers in Denver uses (including its pricing... which is lower than what Smiths charges for its often lousy sometimes good fried chicken) which yields an excellent product every time and I suspect a much higher sales volume of fried chicken due to the product being so much better. But Kroger has demonstrated they either are too stubborn to implement successful hot food programs from divisions that have them on a widespread basis, or they simply have no clue with hot food. How much money did they lose with these failed BBQ, Mexican Street Food, etc. counters? Probably a ton. They already had working programs like King Soopers Chester program, Dillons Chinese Food Program, Ralphs Hot Roasted Meat program with associated sandwich program, that are established programs and have worked for decades they could have rolled out. The "Bistro" concept which Kroger seemed to push around some divisions in the 00's never took off. But Cincinnati for whatever reason a few years ago decided it was time to take control and take ownership of the hot food programs and develop these terrible programs like BBQ, Mexican Street Food, Chicken Co., etc. and that they knew best. Well, they didn't.

Raleys Wedge has no hot food other than the endcap of roast chickens (sometimes they throw some fried 8 piece bags in there and some 1 pound tenders too). Their hot by the pound self serve (and the salad bar) has been closed since COVID (despite that it can be converted to employee serve). Raleys has already moved on from that set up used there and does not have it in new stores or remodels.
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