Oregon Senate Passes Thin Plastic Bag Ban

[SamSpade]

Walmart stores are selling the "heavy" plastic bags. To see what these look like, here is a KGW report:
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/verify ... 2535171c56

[Alpha8472]

In California, they tried paper bags at Walmart, but customers complained that they broke easily and had no handles. Then the thick plastic bags came, and it was found to be more efficient to bag. Now the thick plastic bags can be seen blowing down the streets in the wind. They are heavy, but they still move. Nobody brings these back to reuse. They go right into the trash.

[storewanderer]

In California, they tried paper bags at Walmart, but customers complained that they broke easily and had no handles. Then the thick plastic bags came, and it was found to be more efficient to bag. Now the thick plastic bags can be seen blowing down the streets in the wind. They are heavy, but they still move. Nobody brings these back to reuse. They go right into the trash.

Wal Mart has some paper bags in Reno at the location near me. They are larger sized than the paper bags used at CA Stores Raleys/Safeway and similar in size to the Whole Foods or WinCo paper bags (taller size). No handles on the bags. The paper bags have been sitting on some of the self checkouts for literally months and no customers seem interested in using them.

The thick plastic bags are a great part of this whole scam. None of the people who pushed these plastic bag bans talk about those thick plastic bags and the fact that they use many multiples the plastic of the thin bags, still end up in the trash, and basically a scenario is created where there is just as much or more plastic waste as before but now customers are being inconvenienced and checkout speed is impacted. There are also many, uh, sanitation problems and certain waste present on the streets and sidewalks in San Francisco, San Diego, and Los Angeles that rarely existed before these stupid plastic bag bans took place. Most people were very constructive in their re-use of the thin plastic bags to clean up after themselves or their pets. But when left with no easily available options, they seem to think it is okay to just not clean up after themselves or their pets. Sorry but homeless people cannot afford to go buy single use waste bags like the idealistic pro plastic bag ban people advise people to do who note this loss of utility from the old thin bags, not even sure where you'd find those in these big cities that don't like Wal Marts or big stores.

When these bans first started I made a point to not buy a super thick bag. As time went on I have started to buy super thick bags (I use the term buy loosely since I find I am charged less than half of the time when I go to a cashier, but always get to pay at self checkout since it makes me enter in how many bags purchased) when I have more than a few items, otherwise take no bag. So after a day or two of going to some stores in CA, I usually end up with 2-3 super thick bags that I can use for trash re-use or laundry or something. Previously I would have ended up with 10-12 thin bags which I could have done a variety of re-uses of including trash, pet litter, food waste, etc. So for me I find this ban actually makes me put more plastic waste into the environment than less, and I feel I get less constructive re-use out of the waste I am putting into the environment. Also previously when I did something like buy one banana or one apple and a yogurt, I did not take a produce bag, just the thin plastic bag at checkout. Now I take a produce bag for the fruit and a second for the yogurt (to serve as a shield for the yogurt that pops out as you open the container and to put the foil yogurt covered lid into until it gets to the trash). I suppose the produce bag is smaller than the thin one so maybe this is a little plastic reduction.

I find the super thick bags do not take pet debris or food litter as well as the thin ones (they tend to puncture easier despite being so thick and you cannot tie a good solid knot in them to stop odor the way you can the thin ones) and also they do not tie as tightly shut as the thin ones (again due to the thickness).

Frankly, there is no plastic bag ban in California or most of these other places except the few cities who have put into their ban that the bag if plastic reusable, the bag must have a "woven handle." That makes these super thick "reusable" plastic bags disallowed and is a true "plastic bag ban." These "plastic bag bans" are promoted by a fringe group that does not shop for large families and refuses to acknowledge that the super thick plastic bags that have come of this just release a net gain of plastic waste in mass into the environment. They instead brag how many fewer bags the store is handing out. Well if I hand out 100 super thick plastic bags instead of 1,000 of the old thin ones yes 900 fewer bags were given out but since those super thick ones are at least 10x the thickness of the old thin ones, I am releasing just as much plastic waste as before. Perhaps these folks who push this stuff like seeing people have a hassle in buying groceries, and enjoy watching people juggle groceries out of the store into the parking lot with no bags for some sick reason. Most of them probably don't even go to the store, they shop online and have stuff delivered for them to their houses.

[Super S]

I was talking to a friend that lives in Portland yesterday, and he mentioned that the bag ban is causing some frustration. He mentioned that some stores are offering the bags at every purchase mentioning the 5 cent charge, while others are not even offering to bag your purchase and automatically setting the item(s) on the counter. One thing that he mentioned was at a Target store, I think Clackamas, where they have NO bags out at all in the self-checkout area and you have to ask for them. It appears that some retailers have misunderstood this and think that the bag ban means to not offer bags at all. I could see that at smaller stores, but Target not even having bags out is a little surprising.

The one I am watching is WinCo. This bag-your-own-groceries chain is one of the few places left that still provides sturdy, full-size paper bags. Many stores have shifted to "shorter" paper bags in recent years, and I am wondering if they may, at least in Oregon, eventually move away from the bag-your-own format as it would be difficult to enforce the fees with bags at the end of the checkstand out of view of the cashier.

[storewanderer]

Yes, in CA often if you only have a few items they just set them on the counter and do not ask if you want a bag. It is just assumed you will carry the items out (which most of the time is what happens).

Keep in mind the OR law is applying to all retailers while the CA law covers only those who sell alcohol (some others like Tractor Supply, Dollar Tree and Petco have joined the law even though they sell no alcohol and sell super thick bags for .10 evidently in an attempt to pass the bag cost to the customer even when they don't have to). Go to a mall in CA and basically nobody charges for bags and there is no bag regulation whatsoever going on.

WinCo does not have any self serve bags in CA Stores. You tell the cashier how many bags you want and they charge you for the bags and throw them down the belt with the rest of your groceries. At self checkout you have to ask for bags as well. This is the set up I've seen at all CA WinCos I've visited.

Wal Mart I have seen some with the plastic bags at self checkout to be freely taken (then at the end of scanning the system asks how many bags you used and charges you) and then others where you have to ask the clerk for a plastic bag. Also at Wal Mart the "check receipt at door" policy technically applies only for unbagged items... so in my case I definitely find it worthwhile to pay the .10 for a bag there vs. screw around at the door for a receipt check which there is usually a line for. Also many CA Wal Marts have reconfigured their checkstands to remove the round rotating bag racks to have what looks like a more traditional grocery store set up with a long counter space past the scanner and a single bag rack for the thick bags on the cashier's side. I wonder how much that reconfiguration cost.

Every Target I've been to has bags freely on self checkout and then asks you how many bags you used at the end.

[Super S]

WinCo does not have any self serve bags in CA Stores. You tell the cashier how many bags you want and they charge you for the bags and throw them down the belt with the rest of your groceries. At self checkout you have to ask for bags as well. This is the set up I've seen at all CA WinCos I've visited.

Did WinCo have to reconfigure their checkstands to have a place to store the bags? The setup most WinCo stores have doesn't seem efficient for this, especially with the high volume WinCo typically has. I could see problems here with some of their rude cashiers which will turn on the belt if they think you are not bagging fast enough, shoving other people's groceries into yours (as well as bags thrown on the belt) It would be less of an issue with self-checkouts with smaller orders, but I do see quite a few people using self-checkouts, sometimes with larger orders, to avoid dealing with the cashiers.

[storewanderer]

WinCo does not have any self serve bags in CA Stores. You tell the cashier how many bags you want and they charge you for the bags and throw them down the belt with the rest of your groceries. At self checkout you have to ask for bags as well. This is the set up I've seen at all CA WinCos I've visited.

Did WinCo have to reconfigure their checkstands to have a place to store the bags? The setup most WinCo stores have doesn't seem efficient for this, especially with the high volume WinCo typically has. I could see problems here with some of their rude cashiers which will turn on the belt if they think you are not bagging fast enough, shoving other people's groceries into yours (as well as bags thrown on the belt) It would be less of an issue with self-checkouts with smaller orders, but I do see quite a few people using self-checkouts, sometimes with larger orders, to avoid dealing with the cashiers.

Nope, same old checkstands. Plastic bags are draped over the little ledge type thing behind the cashier and paper bags are stacked in the tiny little cubby space below the checkstand which is reserved for cleaning supplies in the past (can barely fit the paper bags). So as you point out when busy they would run out of bags and have to go get more bags.

There are numerous efficiency and other functionality issues with these "bag bans." Way more hassle than they are worth. And I read today in a Plastic industry trade website that this has even become a presidential election hot button item that was discussed by at least one candidate when a person attending a rally from Kenya (where plastic bags are not only banned but you get a fine if you are seen with one) asked the candidate's position on the matter of banning plastic bags. No need to discuss positions of the candidate in question here since it is not political, but it is amazing how far this topic has gone.