Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

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storewanderer
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: June 27th, 2021, 11:26 pm
I think the items on PIN pads will go away entirely at all remaining retailers that have them because they need to disconnect the PIN pads from the registers to avoid data breaches and malware. The stores that seem out of date because the PIN pad does not show the items are actually the most up to date. The PIN pads are directly hooked up to the credit card processing servers on a completely separate network from the register. The register on its own network basically sends a message to the credit card processor to this effect - "Register 2 would like to use PIN pad 2 for a charge of $37.15.“. The credit card processor then sends the total amount to the PIN pad on its own secure credit network. Once an approval is received the credit system tells the register. This is also the reason most retailers can't do anything when credit and debit are down any longer. In the past they basically stored the card numbers and would take a gamble that the funds would be available when the system came back online and they could batch the transactions. Now that is impossible because the register itself never stores a credit card number.

I'll just leave it at this, I was astonished by what we had to go through at my company to get this set up the correct way, no cutting corners, with the standard Verifone and IBM/Toshiba registers. When it was done there was no visible change to the customer, yet thousands of feet of new cable had to be run to separate the PIN pads and install a 2nd network.

There basically is no good way to secure the register hardware itself so the PIN pads had to be separated.

All I can say is that the more convenient a register seems these days the less secure it actually is. You do not want to shop at a retail store that can actually refund your credit card without you running it through the chip reader again... Because if they can then your info is stored in the register and you're going to be the victim of a data breach sooner than later. They're still happening.
I don't necessarily consider it out of date for items to not show up on the pinpads. It is more that if the items do not show up on the pinpad, there should be some kind of customer display screen to show what is going on (even a little two line screen). Many "modern" POS set ups provide no customer display screen and relied on the pinpad to do that part.

That sounds like the way it works up in Canada. Semi-integrated card processing. There are not many fancy pinpads (a few places like GAP's brands, Wal Mart, and Home Depot...) and the pinpads do not activate until the transaction is totaled.

I did not think retailers were allowed to store credit card data from customers with EMV and that would include the storing of card numbers for the purpose of processing refunds. So how are these retailers like Target, Kohls, Walgreens, and various others storing card data from EMV Transactions and doing refunds automatically without needing the card? I have wondered how that is allowed or compliant under this system as it seems like the same exact issue that caused data breaches in the past.

I have done some returns at Wal Mart and have had to insert my card there every time doing the return. I seem to recall under the old swipe system they stored the card number in the system and it automatically credited sometimes (but not always).

Various grocers on NCR (Save Mart and Raleys specifically) are still storing card numbers when credit/debit are down and do a batch process of the cards when the system comes back online... some stores will stop it from happening by saying cash only at those times... some will limit the transaction amount...
Alpha8472
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by Alpha8472 »

Safeway has had flat screen monitors at their registers since at least around 2000. You can see a list of items on the screen.

It is only at some Walmart Pharmacy registers, but those have a computer screen that show a list of your purchases. It is not on the pin pad, but a completely separate screen attached to the back of the registers touch screen. Older non-touch screen registers do not have this. The only reason why they do not have this at all registers is the cost of a second computer screen.

There was a Walmart that had these screens at all registers, but that store was looted and burned. The remodeled store got the cheap Walmart registers as replacements.
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: June 27th, 2021, 10:01 pm Wal Mart's pinpad shows the items as they scan them. It is a little bit useless as it only shows a few items and under each item it says "subtotal" which is sort of useless since that does not include tax.

I know Aldi is on a different system than Trader Joe's but Trader Joe's also shows the items on the pinpad as they scan them.

Hobby Lobby does have scanners but only for coupons (or did they do away with coupons so maybe they got to do away with the scanners)? I could not believe they had no scanners. No shelf tags either. Amazing they can stock and merchandise their stores.
Let me get this straight:

Hobby Lobby has no shelf tags, you can't see the price of an item on a screen at the register, the products have no UPC and the correction process requires manager intervention (and the checker has an attitude)?

Wow, and people shop there?

Oh.........that's right.........................Hobby Lobby is "special" and exempt from common standards of customer service.

Got it!

;)
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by Alpha8472 »

Ross used to have a really bad system back in the late 90s where each item had 2 barcodes. One was for the item and the second was for the price. So customers would peel off price stickers with a lower price and stick them on any item. You could make any item any price. Sometimes customers would handwrite a price. The cashier would just type in the price as asking another employee to do a price check on the sales floor would take too long. Ross took years to get rid of that system.
Last edited by Alpha8472 on June 28th, 2021, 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by mjhale »

veteran+ wrote: June 28th, 2021, 8:20 am
Let me get this straight:

Hobby Lobby has no shelf tags, you can't see the price of an item on a screen at the register, the products have no UPC and the correction process requires manager intervention (and the checker has an attitude)?

Wow, and people shop there?

Oh.........that's right.........................Hobby Lobby is "special" and exempt from common standards of customer service.

Got it!

;)
Lol!!

But seriously... I worked for Hechinger (east coast home improvement store now gone to retail heaven) from 1986-1995. Prior to getting scanners in 1990 or 1991 every item was marked with the department and SKU which we manually entered. We had a book with the department and SKU for lumber, garden stuff, etc. We were so grateful to get scanners way back when.

Well this is the system that Hobby Looby uses in 2021! Everything is marked with their SKU, department and price. Inventory must be a real you know what if they have no idea what is really in the store without going to look at the specific item. Also I had no idea they only had one (!) distribution center. I can't see how in the long run that can be cost effective when they have stores on the coasts now. It is like when Albertsons was supplying the Florida Safeway stores from the Landover, MD Safeway DC...

Forgive me for this but Hobby Lobby has this strange stuffy, we are watching you type environment. I can't quite explain it. But with the demise of the local hobby store, Hobby Lobby is the best in store source of models, model supplies, railroad things and other "guy" type things along those lines. Michaels is too female oriented in my view. I just suck it up and wonder how in the heck anyone can run a business with no scanners and now I learned a manual inventory system.... in 2021...
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by Alpha8472 »

Longs Drugs was a chain that was very old fashioned until the mid 90s. They had ancient cash registers where the cashier typed the price of the item. You would get a paper receipt that just listed the price of an item. It looked like something out of the 1950s or 1960s. The stores had wood paneling on the walls and displays that looked straight out of the 1950s.

I once went up and saw the manager's office in 2011 and it was frozen in time with 1960s style. It had 60s style furniture and lamps. There were two way mirrors where you could view the entire sales floor.
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by ClownLoach »

mjhale wrote: June 28th, 2021, 3:41 pm
veteran+ wrote: June 28th, 2021, 8:20 am
Let me get this straight:

Hobby Lobby has no shelf tags, you can't see the price of an item on a screen at the register, the products have no UPC and the correction process requires manager intervention (and the checker has an attitude)?

Wow, and people shop there?

Oh.........that's right.........................Hobby Lobby is "special" and exempt from common standards of customer service.

Got it!

;)
Lol!!

But seriously... I worked for Hechinger (east coast home improvement store now gone to retail heaven) from 1986-1995. Prior to getting scanners in 1990 or 1991 every item was marked with the department and SKU which we manually entered. We had a book with the department and SKU for lumber, garden stuff, etc. We were so grateful to get scanners way back when.

Well this is the system that Hobby Looby uses in 2021! Everything is marked with their SKU, department and price. Inventory must be a real you know what if they have no idea what is really in the store without going to look at the specific item. Also I had no idea they only had one (!) distribution center. I can't see how in the long run that can be cost effective when they have stores on the coasts now. It is like when Albertsons was supplying the Florida Safeway stores from the Landover, MD Safeway DC...

Forgive me for this but Hobby Lobby has this strange stuffy, we are watching you type environment. I can't quite explain it. But with the demise of the local hobby store, Hobby Lobby is the best in store source of models, model supplies, railroad things and other "guy" type things along those lines. Michaels is too female oriented in my view. I just suck it up and wonder how in the heck anyone can run a business with no scanners and now I learned a manual inventory system.... in 2021...
Hobby Lobby is not even entering a SKU. They are just ringing up Department Code and Price. That's it. This is why their promotions are usually very broad and vague, like "All Seasonal 50% Off.". The cashier rings the seasonal department code and enters the price on the item and then the register knows the promotion. So they do not record the SKU at the register at all, and the receipt is not itemized. They have to be the most archaic large retail chain in America.
storewanderer
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Re: Pinpad showing running total of items at stores

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: July 18th, 2021, 11:31 am
Hobby Lobby is not even entering a SKU. They are just ringing up Department Code and Price. That's it. This is why their promotions are usually very broad and vague, like "All Seasonal 50% Off.". The cashier rings the seasonal department code and enters the price on the item and then the register knows the promotion. So they do not record the SKU at the register at all, and the receipt is not itemized. They have to be the most archaic large retail chain in America.
The first time I went to a Hobby Lobby was in OK around 2010 and they had very low tech cash registers but these cash registers did have a pinpad hooked up to them and processed credit/debit. Did not see any scanners. I believe Big Lots used these cash registers after pulling out MacFrugals more modern in the 90's IBMs (no clue why they did that) (Big Lots is another one with a screwy and archaic scanning/UPC set up) but they actually did have scanning, this would have been back in the 2003-2004 era. What is ironic is when Big Lots finally replaced its registers they put in IBMs again (granted they were more modern ones than they had pulled out 5-10 years earlier).

Fast forward to whenever Hobby Lobby opened in Reno and the store opened with modern hardware-NCR touch screen (this seems counter productive with so much price entry a normal keyboard should be used at least for 10 key) registers and scanners hidden at the back of the register only to be pulled out when someone was using a coupon. Now they eliminated coupons so maybe they eliminated the scanners too.
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