Sears Fears: The Final Days of Sears & Kmart, 2019

[pseudo3d]

New Mexico has 2 million people with two Kmarts, yet Texas has 13 times that population, and only one Kmart.
With that in mind, I think it's time to shut down Sears/Kmart after Christmas.

One thing is Texas was a state that Kmart largely exited in the first bankruptcy for some reason. The only locations they kept were fringe type locations. They got entirely out of Houston, Dallas, etc.

The Houston stores went away because the only "newer" stores were former Venture stores, which didn't have garden centers and weren't making money anyway. They sold a few other locations, too. In the end, it was probably for the better, as even the profitable ones in that market probably weren't enough to sustain it as a whole (especially given how Walmart was gaining a lot of ground).

[storewanderer]

I disagree. Target has decided to de-emphasize the categories in which they can't compete with Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, et al. Their customers shop at Home Depot, Lowes, and Mendards for home improvement and garden. They might check out Walmart, but probably don't. Their customers will buy some grocery items when they shop at Target, but probably buy groceries at a supermarket and not at Walmart. Walmart, on the other hand, caters to customers who don't want to spend a lot of money. Thus, they sell everything.

Walmart is a lot like KMart and Sears about 40 years ago. If they are not careful, they will experience a similar fate.

Let's see which chain comes out on top next time the economy goes into a recession. My money is on Wal Mart.

Target has not resolved its challenges on grocery (though I have seen some improvements in the past couple years, it does not seem like it has gotten them much traction) and on getting customers to buy more essential consumable type items in their stores. They have doubled down on selling more discretionary higher margin seasonal and otherwise non-essential goods. This strategy works fine when the economy is doing well, like it is now. Those are the first purchases people cut when things get tough. Recall how the last recession went for Target. It did not go well. Granted, the Canada situation was also in the middle of all that which did not help things. It is only the past couple years with the new CEO that they have finally recovered.

De-emphasizing certain categories that they "could not compete in" is what has gotten department store chains up against the wall they are currently in. It is okay, until you back yourself too far into a corner and become irrelevant. Not saying this will happen to Target (they have not "exited" hardlines per se other than garden which they seem to have exited completely, but they sure don't have much in auto, hardware, etc.).

[HAMMER77777]

Well I'm in ND, and Target does quite well in our small state, as well in SD. Target has cheap clothes just like WM, and they sell hardlines too. What were you referring to, about hardlines, and also, I'm curious as to why you think they won't do well in small towns? Again, I see them doing quite well in ND, a quintessential small state.

Target's hardlines is almost a complete joke. They have almost nothing as far as hardware, automotive, or garden goes. One could argue there are other stores that sell those items in the given markets, though, so it would just be redundant.

The ship has already sailed for Target in small towns for the most part. There may be some isolated locations where they are successful in little small towns of under 20,000 people but I can't think of any.

Then you get to medium sized markets. Generally when I notice in those types of places is Target and Wal Mart will be placed near each other and Wal Mart is easily doing 5+ times the business of the Target (including in California) and has a significantly higher employee count. You can also argue a good chunk of that additional business at Wal Mart is on grocery but I am not so sure. Down in Atwater, CA there is a Super Target and a Wal Mart Supercenter placed next to each other and the traffic difference is as I describe.

Yet if you go to, say, any Sacramento or bay area town, the Target Stores seem just as busy as any Wal Mart.

Target's success is in large metro areas. Their store is more geared toward that type of customer who lives in an apartment and doesn't have much of a house or yard or automobiles to maintain beyond simple tasks like hanging a picture on the wall. To a lesser extent I also think they cater very successfully to young families who have a good bit of disposable income and like to replace things often.

Is North Dakota not a small market? I think it's the second smallest state after Wyoming (or pretty close to that). The Bismarck Target is busy. The Rapid City SD Target is busy. The one in Bismarck has full grocery, meats, produce, everything. I can get almost anything that Wally has there (except Garden, of course). You keep writing about California, the biggest state in the country which is saturated with stores. Here in extremely rural ND, Target is popular. And no, there are not too many apartment dwellers in ND (yes there are a few in towns like Fargo, but most people are Farmers/ranchers around here). And everyone in ND owns cars or pickup trucks. Target is based in Minnesota, 1 state to the east.

[HAMMER77777]

...Target's success is in large metro areas...

I would guess that is true, although I have not studied their financials.

...Their store is more geared toward that type of customer who lives in an apartment and doesn't have much of a house or yard or automobiles to maintain beyond simple tasks like hanging a picture on the wall...

I disagree. Target has decided to de-emphasize the categories in which they can't compete with Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, et al. Their customers shop at Home Depot, Lowes, and Mendards for home improvement and garden. They might check out Walmart, but probably don't. Their customers will buy some grocery items when they shop at Target, but probably buy groceries at a supermarket and not at Walmart. Walmart, on the other hand, caters to customers who don't want to spend a lot of money. Thus, they sell everything.

Walmart is a lot like KMart and Sears about 40 years ago. If they are not careful, they will experience a similar fate.

I need to Learn how to use multi-quote on this website. Anyway, I disagree with this, as when I go to the Bismarck ND Target, I can get everything (other than Garden) at pretty much Same Price as WM, but in a nicer, neater store. They even have full service groceries, meats, produce. Not even a small meat department. We even found ground pork, which I was having trouble finding at regular grocery stores, as my wife needed it for a recipe. Again, other than Garden stuff, I can get pretty much anything I need at that Target.

[HAMMER77777]

I disagree. Target has decided to de-emphasize the categories in which they can't compete with Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, et al. Their customers shop at Home Depot, Lowes, and Mendards for home improvement and garden. They might check out Walmart, but probably don't. Their customers will buy some grocery items when they shop at Target, but probably buy groceries at a supermarket and not at Walmart. Walmart, on the other hand, caters to customers who don't want to spend a lot of money. Thus, they sell everything.

Walmart is a lot like KMart and Sears about 40 years ago. If they are not careful, they will experience a similar fate.

Let's see which chain comes out on top next time the economy goes into a recession. My money is on Wal Mart.

Target has not resolved its challenges on grocery (though I have seen some improvements in the past couple years, it does not seem like it has gotten them much traction) and on getting customers to buy more essential consumable type items in their stores. They have doubled down on selling more discretionary higher margin seasonal and otherwise non-essential goods. This strategy works fine when the economy is doing well, like it is now. Those are the first purchases people cut when things get tough. Recall how the last recession went for Target. It did not go well. Granted, the Canada situation was also in the middle of all that which did not help things. It is only the past couple years with the new CEO that they have finally recovered.

De-emphasizing certain categories that they "could not compete in" is what has gotten department store chains up against the wall they are currently in. It is okay, until you back yourself too far into a corner and become irrelevant. Not saying this will happen to Target (they have not "exited" hardlines per se other than garden which they seem to have exited completely, but they sure don't have much in auto, hardware, etc.).

Sorry, obvious newbie here, can you please let me Know how to use multi-quote so I don't have to make all these posts? I haven't been able to locate that feature that I have used on other forum-type websites.
Anyway, I like buying consumable goods (Charmin, dish soap, etc.), at Target, both online and in their stores. Their Prices are often cheaper than Wally, and like them, there is free shipping over $35. Often, in store, if I spend over $25 on P&G products, they give $5 Gift Card. Not bad. I actually go to Target, specifically FOR consumables and groceries, not discretionary stuff. As for auto, I can buy motor oil and stuff there. Grocery-Wise, at least in Bismarck, one fourth (if not more) of the store is grocery so I can literally get anything I want, without dealing with the idiotic crowds and long lines of Wally. Now if I need fertilizer, then I go to WM, Ace, Menards, Tractor Supply, Runnings, etc., but other than that, Target has almost anything I need, in a neat, clean, store, with friendly service. If the line is long, they open another register right away. They have Star Bucks (AKA a large place with many tables to sit with free internet) where I can dik around with my laptop if my wife is taking too long to shop. Bathrooms are always pristine (unlike Wally). Lastly, they are attached to a mall with a Chinese restaurant, Bar, pizza place, Etc., so I don't get bored. I really like that store.

[Super S]

Well I'm in ND, and Target does quite well in our small state, as well in SD. Target has cheap clothes just like WM, and they sell hardlines too. What were you referring to, about hardlines, and also, I'm curious as to why you think they won't do well in small towns? Again, I see them doing quite well in ND, a quintessential small state.

Target's hardlines is almost a complete joke. They have almost nothing as far as hardware, automotive, or garden goes. One could argue there are other stores that sell those items in the given markets, though, so it would just be redundant.

The ship has already sailed for Target in small towns for the most part. There may be some isolated locations where they are successful in little small towns of under 20,000 people but I can't think of any.

Then you get to medium sized markets. Generally when I notice in those types of places is Target and Wal Mart will be placed near each other and Wal Mart is easily doing 5+ times the business of the Target (including in California) and has a significantly higher employee count. You can also argue a good chunk of that additional business at Wal Mart is on grocery but I am not so sure. Down in Atwater, CA there is a Super Target and a Wal Mart Supercenter placed next to each other and the traffic difference is as I describe.

Yet if you go to, say, any Sacramento or bay area town, the Target Stores seem just as busy as any Wal Mart.

Target's success is in large metro areas. Their store is more geared toward that type of customer who lives in an apartment and doesn't have much of a house or yard or automobiles to maintain beyond simple tasks like hanging a picture on the wall. To a lesser extent I also think they cater very successfully to young families who have a good bit of disposable income and like to replace things often.

Target seems to do better in areas where they located before Walmart came to their area. The Pacific Northwest is a good example. Target came around in the mid-1980s, while it was the mid-1990s before Walmart came to the region. Areas such as Portland and Seattle have been good areas for Target.

Target, however, has not made much of an impact in smaller towns. A good example is Longview-Kelso. Target opened a store in Kelso in 1990, a good 4-5 years before Walmart opened in Longview. Target at first had a better hardlines selection but after Walmart came around this was cut back significantly. There are now two Walmarts in Longview, while the Target has seen only one remodel except for the recent conversion of its cafe to Starbucks. I get mixed feelings about the Kelso store's future. However, that store established itself before Walmart came in and is the only Target between Vancouver and Olympia, and is highly visible along the freeway.

Target has, however, largely avoided the smaller towns where others have opened. Examples are Centralia-Chehalis, Battle Ground, and Woodland here in Washington, as well as Warrenton in Oregon, the rest of the Oregon Coast, and Central and Eastern Oregon.

[bayford]

The ship has already sailed for Target in small towns for the most part. There may be some isolated locations where they are successful in little small towns of under 20,000 people but I can't think of any.

There are nine communities of less than 20,000 people, and outside of a larger metro area, in Target's home state of Minnesota that have a Target store: Alexandria, Baxter, Bemidji, Cambridge (which is, in fairness, something of a bedroom community to the Twin Cities), Grand Rapids, Hutchinson, Red Wing, Virginia, and Willmar. In general, these stores date from the early-to-mid 1990s, with remodels and possibly an addition or two made along the way.

As to how successful these locations are nowadays; well, there used to be Targets in two additional rural communities of less than 20,000 in the state--Fergus Falls and New Ulm--but Target pulled out of each within the last five years. Target also withdrew from Austin, a city of about 25,000. The Austin and New Ulm stores were approximately 30 miles away from another, still open, Target.

Walmart competes in all of these locales and, apart from a couple of instances where they arrived much later, has since approximately the same time in the early-to-mid 90s when Target entered the scene. During the 1990s, I'd say Walmart and Target here were more or less equal. Rather than damaging each other, their greatest impact was probably damaging the established Kmart and Pamida stores that many of these places had prior to Walmart and Target's arrival.

Walmart started noticeably diverging around the mid-2000s, though, as, one-by-one, they replaced their original 1990s stores in the region with supercenters. Ever since, you look around at the traffic at the Walmart and Target in these communities, and Walmart will almost always be busier, potentially very significantly so. That said, Walmart too is noticeably facing some headwinds thanks to Aldi and Dollar General undertaking a major expansion within Minnesota during this decade.

[retailfanmitchell019]

I wonder if Albertsons should take these closing Kmarts and opening up more stores under the Market Street banner (Boise Market Street concept, not Texas stores). They took over a former Shopko in Meridian for the Albertsons Market Street concept.

[Alpha8472]

Eddie Lampert reportedly is trying to regain full ownership of Sears Hometown and the Outlet stores to combine them with the regular Sears again. Financial experts are confused by his thinking. Perhaps combining these companies back together will bring some reassurance to customers that Sears is somewhat still trying to be in business.

This is bizarre. Sears Hometown and Outlet have split up so many times in the past, that no one can keep track of who really owns it. Eddie's hedge funds already own about half or so of the stock of Hometown. Why is he trying to buy the rest?

The current management of Hometown and Outlet declined the offer and said that the offer was not financially adequate at this time. However, they are open to further discussions at a later time.

I find the management of Sears to be increasingly erratic and unpredictable. Something has not been right in the corporate office for some time.

[Super S]

Eddie Lampert reportedly is trying to regain full ownership of Sears Hometown and the Outlet stores to combine them with the regular Sears again. Financial experts are confused by his thinking. Perhaps combining these companies back together will bring some reassurance to customers that Sears is somewhat still trying to be in business.

This is bizarre. Sears Hometown and Outlet have split up so many times in the past, that no one can keep track of who really owns it. Eddie's hedge funds already own about half or so of the stock of Hometown. Why is he trying to buy the rest?

The current management of Hometown and Outlet declined the offer and said that the offer was not financially adequate at this time. However, they are open to further discussions at a later time.

I find the management of Sears to be increasingly erratic and unpredictable. Something has not been right in the corporate office for some time.

That would pretty much kill off the Hometown stores which seem to be struggling as it is. The local Hometown store has been advertising heavily on the radio that they aren't closing, but just by having the word Sears in their name, I am sure that has chased away some business.

I had to replace my dishwasher not too long ago. I ended up buying it at Lowe's. In past years I did look at Sears, but never even gave thought this time because of how they heavily focus on Kenmore and how the future of Sears is not looking good. Who would honor the warranty if Kenmore wasn't sold off like they did with Craftsman and Sears went under? For this same reason I will no longer buy DieHard automotive batteries.

The Hometown stores could do OK if they focused less on the Sears end of things and focused more on name brands and possibly ditched the Sears from their name. Sears is damaged goods at this point and is a company that is already viewed as done for by many due to all of the store closures.