Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Predicting the demise of Sears & Kmart since 2017!
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by BillyGr »

Jeff wrote: December 13th, 2020, 5:58 pm Plus the size of the store is too small for Walmart, even if it was scaled back. Its only 80k sq ft. Good size though for Target.
storewanderer wrote: December 13th, 2020, 9:11 pm I think the space is too small for Wal Mart.
lake52 wrote: December 13th, 2020, 6:59 pm I don't think Walmart could ever get a store approved in Tahoe.
Just to elaborate on a previous post, that Vermont reference was to Bennington.

Walmart opened there in a former 5&10, which was listed in the 50-55,000 Sq. Ft. range. They did eventually get approval to expand the store, but even then it went to around 100,000 Sq. Ft., so not a lot larger (and based on the combo of the 80K store and Storewanderer's note about the extra space a block away it's probably not that far off of that). Having not been there since that expansion, I'd suspect it has less on the food side, being there is still a supermarket in the same plaza which may (or may not) entail limits on what they can offer.

They also did the use an existing store with VT in order to avoid the issues of not being able to be approved, since it's much harder to deny someone if all they do is take over an existing space and use it for (basically) what the previous tenant was using it for. Seems the same would be here, as long as they just used the existing building and modified setup to fit it (as they did in VT). In fact, being so small it was (at least at one time) ranked in the top few stores in the company in terms of sales/sq. ft., showing that they knew how to set it up to get the volume from a smaller space.

Not that that means they are even looking at this, but at the same time it may not be impossible as one would think comparing just to their regular models.
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by klkla »

Jeff wrote: December 13th, 2020, 5:58 pm
klkla wrote: December 13th, 2020, 10:09 am I think either Walmart or Target would want it. It's a very good location that even does fairly well during the summer.
If both didnt open in the Kmart spot in Bishop, I highly doubt that they'll open in Big Bear. The logistics to get the trucks up the mountain are tough, even though the back way in from Victorville is fairly straight compared to the other ways. Plus the size of the store is too small for Walmart, even if it was scaled back. Its only 80k sq ft. Good size though for Target.
You're probably right. It's just that there isn't any competition up there and there's a decent full time population to support the store in Big Bear and the surrounding cities during the low season. Either Target or WalMart could make money and get better margins than would be normally the case under normal circumstances. I agree Target is the more likely of the two to think out of the box and do something like this.
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by Super S »

BillyGr wrote: December 14th, 2020, 12:15 pm
Jeff wrote: December 13th, 2020, 5:58 pm Plus the size of the store is too small for Walmart, even if it was scaled back. Its only 80k sq ft. Good size though for Target.
storewanderer wrote: December 13th, 2020, 9:11 pm I think the space is too small for Wal Mart.
lake52 wrote: December 13th, 2020, 6:59 pm I don't think Walmart could ever get a store approved in Tahoe.
Just to elaborate on a previous post, that Vermont reference was to Bennington.

Walmart opened there in a former 5&10, which was listed in the 50-55,000 Sq. Ft. range. They did eventually get approval to expand the store, but even then it went to around 100,000 Sq. Ft., so not a lot larger (and based on the combo of the 80K store and Storewanderer's note about the extra space a block away it's probably not that far off of that). Having not been there since that expansion, I'd suspect it has less on the food side, being there is still a supermarket in the same plaza which may (or may not) entail limits on what they can offer.

They also did the use an existing store with VT in order to avoid the issues of not being able to be approved, since it's much harder to deny someone if all they do is take over an existing space and use it for (basically) what the previous tenant was using it for. Seems the same would be here, as long as they just used the existing building and modified setup to fit it (as they did in VT). In fact, being so small it was (at least at one time) ranked in the top few stores in the company in terms of sales/sq. ft., showing that they knew how to set it up to get the volume from a smaller space.

Not that that means they are even looking at this, but at the same time it may not be impossible as one would think comparing just to their regular models.
There is also a very small Supercenter in North Portland, Oregon that is about 80-85K square feet, that went into an existing building, interesting because there is all kinds of large retail close by including a typical Lowe's across the street, a Dick's Sporting Goods which is a former G.I. Joe's, and just a few miles north a Home Depot, newer Target, and other retail at Jantzen Beach.
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by storewanderer »

klkla wrote: December 14th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Jeff wrote: December 13th, 2020, 5:58 pm
klkla wrote: December 13th, 2020, 10:09 am I think either Walmart or Target would want it. It's a very good location that even does fairly well during the summer.
If both didnt open in the Kmart spot in Bishop, I highly doubt that they'll open in Big Bear. The logistics to get the trucks up the mountain are tough, even though the back way in from Victorville is fairly straight compared to the other ways. Plus the size of the store is too small for Walmart, even if it was scaled back. Its only 80k sq ft. Good size though for Target.
You're probably right. It's just that there isn't any competition up there and there's a decent full time population to support the store in Big Bear and the surrounding cities during the low season. Either Target or WalMart could make money and get better margins than would be normally the case under normal circumstances. I agree Target is the more likely of the two to think out of the box and do something like this.
I'm not really sure what the arrangement in Bishop is and who exactly has a say in who can move into the building and who can't. Remember Bishop actually has 2 vacant Kmarts- the old small one, and the new larger modern one. Given Vons keeps paying rent on the smaller old Kmart in Bishop which is a 55k square foot box perfect for another grocer, and cannot seem to find a suitable tenant (one that won't compete with them), I am not really clear if somehow the newer modern Kmart in Bishop is also under some kind of control that may be selective about what moves into the space...
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by klkla »

This video of Sears in the 50’s shows them in their prime. They were relevant and innovative then. They were the ‘Amazon’ of their day.

Last edited by klkla on December 24th, 2020, 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by veteran+ »

WOW!!!!!!!

Thank you so much for that.

Beautiful video and bitter sweet. The American Dream that is no longer.

My Mom was a fashion designer in New York and when I saw the catalogue part it made me smile.

My first modeling job was for the Sears catalogue (kids fashion), I think I was 5.

:)
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by J-Man »

This video of KMart in the 50’s shows them in their prime.
I thought Kmart didn't exist until 1962. Wasn't it part of that group of similar stores (Walmart, Target, Kmart) that all started that year?
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by klkla »

J-Man wrote: December 24th, 2020, 7:50 am
This video of KMart in the 50’s shows them in their prime.
I thought Kmart didn't exist until 1962. Wasn't it part of that group of similar stores (Walmart, Target, Kmart) that all started that year?
You're right. I corrected my post. I meant to say Sears all along.
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

Don't know if this even makes sense, but when I was growing up, I considered a store like Sears somewhat upscale when compared to the places my family usually shopped at-Grants, Woolworth's and later K-Mart. A trip to Sears for me was quite a treat back in the day and even before their decline I always considered them a cut above pretty much every place I've shopped at even as an adult. They just seemed to have this mystique about them and it's something I can't explain. And the day when I got my very own Sears charge card-that was like a rite of passage. Great memories and that's pretty much all they are now. Thank you (for nothing) Eddie Lampert.
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Re: Sears/Kmart: Will 2020 be the end?

Post by storewanderer »

Sears was a retailer known for its quality of product and service but seemed to become rather lost by the 90's and was already well into its decline during the 90's. They got arrogant and customer unfriendly, operated in a vacuum, and became more than clueless. Then of course cost cutting, poor expansion decisions that failed due to poor decisions made (Sears Grand/Essentials), poor relations with those Sears Dealer Store owners that were designed to reach rural areas (selling stuff on Sears website supplied through Sears at prices lower than the Dealer stores had and then telling the Dealers if they price matched they'd lose their commission...despite sending marketing materials to the Dealers saying they'd match any price). It took a long time to bring them down, you could say it took 25 years, but eventually things do go down.

I had a few service issues with Sears in the 00's and while they did eventually resolve them, it was much more difficult than it should have been to resolve those issues and I determined after, that I'd never consider them for any future major purchases. I can't help but wonder how many others had the same experience and over time when more and more people have a negative experience, your customer pool shrinks.
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