JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Predicting the demise of Sears & Kmart since 2017!
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by buckguy »

They got rid of the hardlines decades ago and they never took up the kind of space that they did at Sears. Penney even integrated hardlines into some of the larger soft line only stores that dated back to the 50s.

The problem is closer to the one of cramped spaces and poorly maintained displays. They’ve rearranged some of the clothing departments to make use of centralized checkouts in the last 10 or so years and done more with using wall space and steps like that that took away some of the usual department store layout.

In the end, though, it’s the merchandise. They’ve stopped developing their own brands and they haven’t found a way of escaping the endless cycle of discounting. Private equity ownership will lead to even less attention to merchandising and a long slow further decline.
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by cjd »

The JCPenney here really got strange after they downscaled most of their non-clothing departments a few years ago. They added a Disney department, got rid of the window treatment department which was like a separate room and stuffed it with bedding. The appliance department was moved into where the pots and pans used to be, and spread out to take up a whole corner with what really is just a lot of empty space and I think only has their own Cooks brand now. Can't really compete with other stores selling KitchenAids, etc by doing that.

And I agree they haven't really developed their clothing line. Although most of what I bought from their private labels was still nice up until the last couple of years.
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by Bagels »

buckguy wrote: June 13th, 2020, 12:21 pm They got rid of the hardlines decades ago and they never took up the kind of space that they did at Sears. Penney even integrated hardlines into some of the larger soft line only stores that dated back to the 50s.

The problem is closer to the one of cramped spaces and poorly maintained displays. They’ve rearranged some of the clothing departments to make use of centralized checkouts in the last 10 or so years and done more with using wall space and steps like that that took away some of the usual department store layout.

In the end, though, it’s the merchandise. They’ve stopped developing their own brands and they haven’t found a way of escaping the endless cycle of discounting. Private equity ownership will lead to even less attention to merchandising and a long slow further decline.
JCP's product selection, styling or quality is not inferior to Kohl's, Old Navy, Target, etc. It's biggest problems are (1) its mall-based locations and (2) that it's JCPenney. Even if the styling and price is right, 20yo aren't interested in wearing Arizona-branded jeans.
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by Alpha8472 »

JCPenney seems to have an image problem. Their stores seem stuffy and old. Even recently remodeled stores, look old. The Sunvalley Mall JCPenney spent months totally remodeling and when you walk inside the decor looks as if it could be from 20 years ago. They spend all that money for new carpets and repainting the walls for nothing. Young 20 something people do not want to go to JCPenney, because that is a store where grandmas shop. There is nothing to draw in the Millennial crowd or younger generations. There is no Starbucks inside or anything else that would attract these younger people.

Even in the totally remodeled and fantastic looking JCPenney stores, there is still nothing to attract younger people.

Look at the decor. It is nice, but it does not change the selection of merchandise inside. The new prototype store has some kind of fancy coffee cafe, but it is not Starbucks. If it does not say Starbucks, very few people are going to go there. If it were Starbucks and it were right at the front door, then maybe it might draw in people. I know of one Macy's in Walnut Creek, California with a Starbucks cafe right inside the front door. It is run by Macy's employees. That one draws people inside.

https://jbielectric.com/jcp/

Also notice the Tom Thumb decor at the bottom of the page. Is this some kind of variation of the Safeway Modern Decor?.

Also what is Buc-ee's? A gas station convenience store the size of a 60,000 square foot supermarket?
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by Super S »

Alpha8472 wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 1:37 am JCPenney seems to have an image problem. Their stores seem stuffy and old. Even recently remodeled stores, look old. The Sunvalley Mall JCPenney spent months totally remodeling and when you walk inside the decor looks as if it could be from 20 years ago. They spend all that money for new carpets and repainting the walls for nothing. Young 20 something people do not want to go to JCPenney, because that is a store where grandmas shop. There is nothing to draw in the Millennial crowd or younger generations. There is no Starbucks inside or anything else that would attract these younger people.

Even in the totally remodeled and fantastic looking JCPenney stores, there is still nothing to attract younger people.

Look at the decor. It is nice, but it does not change the selection of merchandise inside. The new prototype store has some kind of fancy coffee cafe, but it is not Starbucks. If it does not say Starbucks, very few people are going to go there. If it were Starbucks and it were right at the front door, then maybe it might draw in people. I know of one Macy's in Walnut Creek, California with a Starbucks cafe right inside the front door. It is run by Macy's employees. That one draws people inside.

https://jbielectric.com/jcp/

Also notice the Tom Thumb decor at the bottom of the page. Is this some kind of variation of the Safeway Modern Decor?.

Also what is Buc-ee's? A gas station convenience store the size of a 60,000 square foot supermarket?
I have said this before, but JCPenney (and other department stores) do not make many physical changes to their stores. Yes, they repaint and replace flooring, and occasionally will update lighting and signs. But many locations retain their same basic layouts. There are many things that reveal a store's age, such as air vents in the ceiling, restrooms in weird locations, departments (such as their failed re-entry into appliances) that were crammed into existing spaces instead of moving walls etc. and have odd layouts. Not to mention many locations having exteriors that have not changed since the 1960s or 1970s....some have aged well where others have not. As malls are dying off this aspect needs more attention.
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by SamSpade »

Alpha8472 wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 1:37 am Also what is Buc-ee's? A gas station convenience store the size of a 60,000 square foot supermarket?
Off Topic
Buc-ee's is a unique store in Texas. They are travel plazas along major roads that have a huge store with a similar selection to a Cracker Barrel alongside typical convenience/mini-mart options. Apparently they are starting to expand into other southern states.

Entertaining write up about the founder and where they stood in 2019, here: https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/b ... omination/
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by Bagels »

Alpha8472 wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 1:37 am JCPenney seems to have an image problem. Their stores seem stuffy and old. Even recently remodeled stores, look old. The Sunvalley Mall JCPenney spent months totally remodeling and when you walk inside the decor looks as if it could be from 20 years ago. They spend all that money for new carpets and repainting the walls for nothing. Young 20 something people do not want to go to JCPenney, because that is a store where grandmas shop. There is nothing to draw in the Millennial crowd or younger generations. There is no Starbucks inside or anything else that would attract these younger people.

Even in the totally remodeled and fantastic looking JCPenney stores, there is still nothing to attract younger people.

Look at the decor. It is nice, but it does not change the selection of merchandise inside. The new prototype store has some kind of fancy coffee cafe, but it is not Starbucks. If it does not say Starbucks, very few people are going to go there. If it were Starbucks and it were right at the front door, then maybe it might draw in people. I know of one Macy's in Walnut Creek, California with a Starbucks cafe right inside the front door. It is run by Macy's employees. That one draws people inside.

https://jbielectric.com/jcp/

Also notice the Tom Thumb decor at the bottom of the page. Is this some kind of variation of the Safeway Modern Decor?.

Also what is Buc-ee's? A gas station convenience store the size of a 60,000 square foot supermarket?
JCP invested billions in store remodels last decade. Their fleet of stores is in no worse shape than most Targets, Walmarts, Old Navy, Kohls, TJ Maxx, Macy's, etc. Most Macy's were built as upscale department stores (regardless of their original owner/operator) and have higher quality furniture and fixtures, but beyond a handful of core stores, Macy's spends minimal amount of money in maintaining its fleet. Most locations I frequent look no different today than when I was in high school 20-25 years ago, sans some minor updates.

Sure, JCP has image problem with younger shoppers, but so does Kohl's. Reality is, both JCP & Kohl's attract a similar demographic. Kohl's primary advantage is its store locations -- non-malls, better neighborhoods, mostly added over the past twenty years, etc. JCP's biggest mistakes were:

- not transitioning its catalog division into e-commerce (the chain believed e-commerce would fail and ultimately shut down its catalog division);
- moving away from standalone stores (in the early 2000s, management said it would be focusing on standalone stores, moving away from mall locations ... replacement management doubled down on malls in the mid- to late-2000s, adding a bunch of mall locations and suspending standalone build outs);
- alienating its core consumer base in attempts to attract younger shoppers (instead, they should've been targeted ex-Sears shoppers, etc.)
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by Super S »

Bagels wrote: June 23rd, 2020, 5:07 am
JCP invested billions in store remodels last decade. Their fleet of stores is in no worse shape than most Targets, Walmarts, Old Navy, Kohls, TJ Maxx, Macy's, etc. Most Macy's were built as upscale department stores (regardless of their original owner/operator) and have higher quality furniture and fixtures, but beyond a handful of core stores, Macy's spends minimal amount of money in maintaining its fleet. Most locations I frequent look no different today than when I was in high school 20-25 years ago, sans some minor updates.

Sure, JCP has image problem with younger shoppers, but so does Kohl's. Reality is, both JCP & Kohl's attract a similar demographic. Kohl's primary advantage is its store locations -- non-malls, better neighborhoods, mostly added over the past twenty years, etc. JCP's biggest mistakes were:

- not transitioning its catalog division into e-commerce (the chain believed e-commerce would fail and ultimately shut down its catalog division);
- moving away from standalone stores (in the early 2000s, management said it would be focusing on standalone stores, moving away from mall locations ... replacement management doubled down on malls in the mid- to late-2000s, adding a bunch of mall locations and suspending standalone build outs);
- alienating its core consumer base in attempts to attract younger shoppers (instead, they should've been targeted ex-Sears shoppers, etc.)
One notable difference though is that JCPenney (and Macy's for that matter) has largely only focused on remodeling the interiors of their stores. Go to an older mall, such as Southcenter in the Seattle area, and JCPenney and Macy's on the outside (with the exception of signage) still look almost the same as they did in the 1960s. Stores such as Target and Walmart do update exteriors as they remodel, and even though a Target or Walmart can be 30 years old you often can't tell. As malls are dying off, people shopping anchor stores are more likely to use outside entrances, and might be put off by the 1960s or 1970s appearance still present on the outside. Some of these locations are becoming very tired looking.
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by storewanderer »

13 more closures.

Michigan: Greenville, Owosso, Big Rapids, Alma, Bay City, Mt. Pleasant, Okemos.
New York: Bay Shore, Poughkeepsie
Washington: Omak, Sunnyside
Maryland: Hyattsville
California: Concord (wow, even Sears is still open there; that used to be a good mall, and JCP can't make a go of it?)

Back to the Concord closure, that is another gap in an already low store count for them around the San Francisco Bay Area. This will only help solidify the position of Macy's in that market.
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Re: JC Penney Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection

Post by Alpha8472 »

I am shocked that they are closing the newly remodeled JCPenney in Concord at Sunvalley Mall. This mall is not in that bad of a shape. It is still busy at Christmas and does decent business the rest of the year. However, business is down from the busiest of times back in the 80s and 90s. It was in the 90s when the white middle class people started leaving Concord. Low income people started to move in and the nearby neighborhoods became dangerous. The rich middle class left for other nearby cities and Concord became a place for lower income immigrants who do not shop at Macy's or even JCPenney.

Sunvalley Mall was targeted by caravans of looters in cars recently. It looked like a war zone. They put up vehicle barriers at the doors and windows. Shops were boarded up, and armed guards in SUVs stood guard at the parking lot entrances. Only recently did the mall reopen for indoor shopping.

The next two cities over were also looted and ransacked. The mall in Walnut Creek was looted, and Pleasant Hill had various stores looted including a Kohl's.

JCPenney probably thinks that this neighborhood is too risky. Looting could break out at anytime once again. After that nearby Walmart was torched, many companies are trying to get out of the Oakland area and its suburbs.
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