Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Super S
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by Super S »

SamSpade wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 9:55 am Ones I know:
27 Silverdale Kitsap (WA) - although Puget Sound is certainly a travel barrier, this is one of the smaller Macy's left in the WA Bon footprint.
28 Bend River (OR) - This store has a M-A-C Cosmetics counter, but is small and JCPenney left this town. Bend is a very odd market. Isolated. Mall was daylighted and other anchors are TJ Maxx, Kohl's, WinCo Foods, Hobby Lobby.
30 Tanasbourne Streets (OR) - This was a strange M&F, apparently it remains a strange Macy's. Not too far from Washington Square.
31 Coeur D'Alene Silver Lake (ID) - Small store, similar to now closed Idaho Falls Grand Teton Mall location. Adjacent to Spokane, Wash. market.
33 Puyallup South Hill (WA) - Similar to (Silverdale) Kitsap Mall above, smaller store near the core large stores in Tacoma, Southcenter Mall
I will comment on a few of the Northwest stores:

Bend: Seems like it could do ok if they could cater more to local tastes, as there isn't much for traditional department stores in the area. There is enough growth, as well as enough distance from the next closest locations, where a store could be feasible.

Tanasbourne: This store just doesn't make much sense. It does have the advantage of being a newer building, but is close to Washington Square. It also is in an open-air center and, as a big two-story store, just seems out of place here.

Puyallup: Close to Tacoma Mall. Tacoma Mall is undergoing some changes with the demolition and redevelopment of the Sears end. South Hill Mall is a newer mall and, while it has a vacant Sears, it does have a JCPenney split into two anchor spaces, as well as a Target that opens in to the mall. I will admit though that South Hill Mall doesn't have quite the draw or visibility though...if you don't veer off of I-5 often you might not know that this mall exists.

And a couple not on the list:

Salem: While not on this list, the former Meier & Frank is an old building dating to the 1950s, pre-dating not only the mall itself but also the closed Lloyd Center store, and is looking tired. Salem Center also has lost Nordstrom and JCPenney in recent years, but does have a Kohl's.

Olympia: Not sure what direction this one will go. This former Bon built in the 1970s is the only one between Vancouver and Tacoma, but is a smaller store. I am not sure of the current situation, but at one point pre-Covid it closed earlier than the rest of the mall.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by storewanderer »

Hillsboro, OR confuses me a bit. The store opened in 2004 and has had some investment. It also has a Macy's Backstage inside the store. That is a generally busy area and demographics are good.

If that store goes that will only leave a total of 2 Macy's around metro Portland (3 if you count Vancouver, WA). That seems a little light.

If there was ever a time for Dillard's to consider some strategic expansion into the Pacific Northwest, it feels like Macys has been leaving a lot of openings... not sure how they'd do... but... if there was ever a time...
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by MSSportsGuy »

It's shocking Macy's hasn't pulled the plug on Gwinnett Place but it likely will soon as the mall was purchased by the county government. It could become some new development or transform into a county services building.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by J-Man »

Macy's Sunrise Mall in Citrus Heights (suburb of Sacramento) has two locations also: a former Weinstock's and a former Liberty House. (The original Macy's in the area was across the street in Birdcage Walk; it's now the location of a Target.)

The Eagle Rock Plaza location is in northeast Los Angeles, adjacent to Glendale. The mall itself is anchored by Macy's (former May Co.) and Target (former Wards), but many of the other stores and restaurants (Seafood City, Jollibee, Grill City, etc.) are designed for the Filipino market.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:59 pm Hillsboro, OR confuses me a bit. The store opened in 2004 and has had some investment. It also has a Macy's Backstage inside the store. That is a generally busy area and demographics are good.

If that store goes that will only leave a total of 2 Macy's around metro Portland (3 if you count Vancouver, WA). That seems a little light.

If there was ever a time for Dillard's to consider some strategic expansion into the Pacific Northwest, it feels like Macys has been leaving a lot of openings... not sure how they'd do... but... if there was ever a time...
I don't know if only 2 stores is light given current times. Nordstrom's store count (not including the "rack" stores) has dropped off to a similar level...you have downtown Portland and you have Washington Square. Stores have closed at Lloyd Center (where Macy's bailed recently) as well as Clackamas and Vancouver Mall (both of which still have Macy's) JCPenney only has three stores including Vancouver Mall. (They closed their freestanding store in Vancouver within the past year)

As for Vancouver, a big expansion and remodel took place right as the store changed from Meier & Frank to Macy's and is one of the nicer ones in the area.

Department stores in general do not need a high store count these days, not when they have such limited product selection in the large stores they already operate. Kinda surprised that so few of them offer Big & Tall sizes for instance. The stores need to stock a better selection so people actually have a reason to go there. When, on multiple occasions, you don't have what people are trying to find, people shift to online shopping. Department stores can't seem to figure this out.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by buckguy »

storewanderer wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:59 pm Hillsboro, OR confuses me a bit. The store opened in 2004 and has had some investment. It also has a Macy's Backstage inside the store. That is a generally busy area and demographics are good.

If that store goes that will only leave a total of 2 Macy's around metro Portland (3 if you count Vancouver, WA). That seems a little light.

If there was ever a time for Dillard's to consider some strategic expansion into the Pacific Northwest, it feels like Macys has been leaving a lot of openings... not sure how they'd do... but... if there was ever a time...
Dillard hasn't been in expansion mode in ages and as a nominally upper middle brow store wouldn't necessarily enter places that Macy (a nominally less upscale store) is exiting. The also have failed in more northerly markets and their sunbelt sensibility doesn't seem like it would be a good fit for Portland. Their current trajectory seems to be buying back stock rather than investing in anything new, and inflating their dividend. Eventually, when the return becomes insufficient, they'll sell what's left to private equity.

The one chain that shows any signs of expansion is Von Maur, which seems to be moving less westward than in other directions. They seem to want lifestyle centers or else malls that have some life in them, although they are willing to go into places like Dayton that have lost a lot of conventional department stores.
Last edited by buckguy on July 25th, 2021, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

Romr123 wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 6:17 pm South County (MO) is the epitome of the mid-market mall, built in roughly 1962 with Famous-Barr/JCP, expanded in roughly 1979 with Stix Baer and Fuller/Sears. Famous/Macy's was a full-line store in May's round store 2-story prototype. Dillards and Sears are gone; there's been a fair bit of housing growth in the next county south, and the next closest mall (Crestwood Plaza) was bulldozed about 5 years ago. If Macy's isn't viable here, there are a bunnnnch of worse places out there.

Lees' Summit is a bit of a surprise, it went in about 15-20 years ago as a big-box free-standing store in the SE corner of the metro; residential growth was occurring in the area, but it's not a "big shopping" destination (for that you go to Country Club Plaza or out to Johnson County)


Interesting that only 3 of the Michigan stores (Traverse City/Genesee Valley/Fashion Square) are on the list--Flint and Saginaw are undeniably lower-income areas and were original Hudson's builds; Traverse City was a newish build in the only mall in the state north of Fashion Square/Saginaw; Traverse City region has been growing recently, but it's an outdoorsy area; not a "dress to impress" area. The more prosperous cities (Kalamazoo/East Lansing/both stores in Grand Rapids) are probably safe; and metro Detroit is also safe.

Shopping during COVID has been interesting. Somerset (undeniably the premier mall in metro Detroit) seems about 90% full with 90% reasonable/relevant tenants. Twelve Oaks (the premier-mall runner-up) is about 80% full with 80% reasonable/relevant tenants (for these two malls, I don't allow much tolerance for local stores/nail shops/etc). Everything else around here seems about 60/60....and from this list, I'd bet that much under that puts Macy's in danger.\ as the mall gets irrelevant.
To me, it seems like the Macys at Oakland Mall would be a perfect candidate for closure. It's fairly redundant with the Macy's at Somerset right down the road.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

buckguy wrote: July 24th, 2021, 10:56 am
storewanderer wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:59 pm Hillsboro, OR confuses me a bit. The store opened in 2004 and has had some investment. It also has a Macy's Backstage inside the store. That is a generally busy area and demographics are good.

If that store goes that will only leave a total of 2 Macy's around metro Portland (3 if you count Vancouver, WA). That seems a little light.

If there was ever a time for Dillard's to consider some strategic expansion into the Pacific Northwest, it feels like Macys has been leaving a lot of openings... not sure how they'd do... but... if there was ever a time...
Dillard hasn't been in expansion mode in ages and as a nominally upper middle brow store wouldn't necessarily enter places that Macy (a nominally less upscale store) is exiting. The also have failed in more northerly markets and their sunbelt sensibility doesn't seem like it would be a goof fit for Portland. Their current trajectory seems to be buying back stock rather than investing in anything new, and inflating their dividend. Eventually, when the return becomes insufficient, they'll sell what's left to private equity.

The one chain that shows any signs of expansion is Von Maur, which seems to be moving less westward than in other directions. They seem to want lifestyle centers or else malls that have some life in them, although they are willing to go into places like Dayton that have lost a lot of conventional department stores.
I've been hearing unsubstantiated rumors about Von Maur wanting to enter the DFW market for a while. If true, I'm not sure what's been giving them pause.

Yeah, there's the Neiman Marcus effect, but they don't think they directly compete with them. They're more similar to Nordstrom.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by storewanderer »

buckguy wrote: July 24th, 2021, 10:56 am
Dillard hasn't been in expansion mode in ages and as a nominally upper middle brow store wouldn't necessarily enter places that Macy (a nominally less upscale store) is exiting. The also have failed in more northerly markets and their sunbelt sensibility doesn't seem like it would be a goof fit for Portland. Their current trajectory seems to be buying back stock rather than investing in anything new, and inflating their dividend. Eventually, when the return becomes insufficient, they'll sell what's left to private equity.

The one chain that shows any signs of expansion is Von Maur, which seems to be moving less westward than in other directions. They seem to want lifestyle centers or else malls that have some life in them, although they are willing to go into places like Dayton that have lost a lot of conventional department stores.


Dillard's is opening a new store in Grand Junction, CO in a few months (old Sears- they basically demolished it). The store will be 100k square feet which is on the smaller side of the scale but it is a medium sized market and it is a new store. That to me constitutes an expansion.

Dillard's also added a 2nd building in Columbia, MO last year (another old Sears) and a 2nd building in Missoula, MT a couple years ago (old CSP- whatever brand they used in MT).

Dillard's also had planned to enter Sioux Falls but that seems to have been delayed but they haven't officially shelved the project yet.

Yes, Dillard's is closing or converting to clearance stores more stores than they have opened, but they have not closed hundreds of stores like Macy's has. They are continuing to open a few new stores and seem to be targeting medium sized markets.

Maybe Dillard's is just trying to keep their in-house construction group busy and that is why they keep having this slow trickle of projects. They do handle all of the construction and expansion projects through an in-house construction group called CDI, but it looks like most of CDI's work is not Dillards-related at this time.
https://www.cdicon.com/portfolio

Even if Dillard's just expands into 2-3 new markets in a year, that results in more territory expansion for them than we are seeing with Macys (who is abandoning many medium sized markets) or Nordstrom (not the right format for these medium sized markets). So I continue to think Macys is leaving some real openings for Dillards in the Pacific Northwest, specifically OR/WA. And maybe it isn't in Seattle or Portland either. Maybe it is in Spokane, Eugene, Salem, Bend, Medford...

How many new stores has Macy's or Nordstrom opened in the past 5 years? Past 10 years? Excluding Backstage and Rack... And how many new markets have they entered with those new stores? Vs. just building another new store in a metro they are already in...
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by rwsandiego »

Macy's is largely undoing Terry Lundgren's handiwork. Legacy Macy's did not operate in second-tier malls and in second-tier markets. IMO, converting all the nameplates to Macy's diluted their brand and attempting to homogenize all of the stores simply alienated shoppers.

That said, three stores I know of are Cherryvale (Rockford, IL), Louis Joilet (Joliet, IL), and Southridge (Greendale, WI outside of Milwaukee). Cherryvale and Louis Joliet are former Marshall Field's locations that always seemed like odd fits for Field's and equally odd fits for Macy's. Southridge opened as a Macy's, but is housed in a building that started out as a Gimbels, was rebranded Marshall Field's, and was later sold to Prange when Field's divested the former Gimbel's mall stores. It was later re-branded to Younker's when that chain bought Prange's. Younker's was later acquired by Proffitt's, as was Carson, Pirie, Scott (nee P.A. Bergner) who owned Boston Store. There was already a Boston Store in the mall, so the Younker's closed.
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