Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Predicting the demise of Sears & Kmart since 2017!
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by Romr123 »

To me, it seems like the Macys at Oakland Mall would be a perfect candidate for closure. It's fairly redundant with the Macy's at Somerset right down the road.
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Oakland Mall is a big 1968 store, with (guessing) 300k-ish sqft, including full furniture, home, Backstage, etc etc etc. Somerset is only about 200k sqft, and is a lot more efficient.

Although Somerset did take a big chunk of the upper-end/designer business, Oakland still has some relevance. It's been explained that Oakland pulls signficantly from the Chaldean community in Sterling Heights, which still does a fair bit of multi-generational mall shopping. As Lakeside imploded, there really wasn't a destination for that community other than Oakland...Somerset is a little intimidating.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by Romr123 »

RH Macy had divested Toledo and Kansas City in the 80s, putting them squarely in the "biggest cities, biggest stores" mold. Those exurban Chicago/Wisconsin stores were always weird for Marshall Fields, being built more as "since we're dominant here in Chicagoland we'd better not leave any openings/holes" than a good fit for them. During the 80s/90s they were never merchandised as the more metropolitan MF stores--always excluded on newspaper ads, for instance. Dayton Hudson/LS Ayres did a better job with those type "edge" stores than did MF.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

Romr123 wrote: July 25th, 2021, 4:42 am To me, it seems like the Macys at Oakland Mall would be a perfect candidate for closure. It's fairly redundant with the Macy's at Somerset right down the road.
Oakland Mall is a big 1968 store, with (guessing) 300k-ish sqft, including full furniture, home, Backstage, etc etc etc. Somerset is only about 200k sqft, and is a lot more efficient.

Although Somerset did take a big chunk of the upper-end/designer business, Oakland still has some relevance. It's been explained that Oakland pulls signficantly from the Chaldean community in Sterling Heights, which still does a fair bit of multi-generational mall shopping. As Lakeside imploded, there really wasn't a destination for that community other than Oakland...Somerset is a little intimidating.
[/quote]

I suppose if (probably when at this point) the Macy's at Lakeside does go, the Oakland Mall location would be the only store on the east side serving the lower/mid-end customer base.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by babs »

storewanderer wrote: July 23rd, 2021, 11:59 pm Hillsboro, OR confuses me a bit. The store opened in 2004 and has had some investment. It also has a Macy's Backstage inside the store. That is a generally busy area and demographics are good.

If that store goes that will only leave a total of 2 Macy's around metro Portland (3 if you count Vancouver, WA). That seems a little light.

If there was ever a time for Dillard's to consider some strategic expansion into the Pacific Northwest, it feels like Macys has been leaving a lot of openings... not sure how they'd do... but... if there was ever a time...
Macy's doesn't have a real issue, they just suck at retail that will end up killing them.

I was at the Hillsboro, OR store yesterday. Frankly, it was awful. The racks had very little merchandise. Active wear should do well here but Macy's doesn't know how to stock and merchandise it. All they need to do is go to the REI store near door to see how it's done. They downsized the home department and added furniture displays in the space without removing the tile floor, at the very least put some rugs down to make it look a bit more residential. The backstage part of the store dominates the first floor taking up over a quarter of the floor. It was fully stocked with low end stuff in the level of Ross. Carpets throughout the store were heavily stained..

The physical location is great. There are busy big box stores near by. Strong demographics. Its far enough away from Washington Square to do well on its own. But Macy's is trying to appeal to the high end shopper who might otherwise go to Nordstrom, the mid market customer who might go to Kohl's and the Ross and TJ Maxx shopper. The lack of focus and execution is what's killing them. If you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one.

The Salem store is a good location, if they would remodel it and fix the merchandising issues. Bend should also be a strong market with the high income and massive infusion of Californians who are familiar with Macy's.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by storewanderer »

babs wrote: July 25th, 2021, 10:14 am Macy's doesn't have a real issue, they just suck at retail that will end up killing them.

I was at the Hillsboro, OR store yesterday. Frankly, it was awful. The racks had very little merchandise. Active wear should do well here but Macy's doesn't know how to stock and merchandise it. All they need to do is go to the REI store near door to see how it's done. They downsized the home department and added furniture displays in the space without removing the tile floor, at the very least put some rugs down to make it look a bit more residential. The backstage part of the store dominates the first floor taking up over a quarter of the floor. It was fully stocked with low end stuff in the level of Ross. Carpets throughout the store were heavily stained..


The Salem store is a good location, if they would remodel it and fix the merchandising issues. Bend should also be a strong market with the high income and massive infusion of Californians who are familiar with Macy's.
Your description of Hillsboro sounds rather similar to Reno- active wear (both for men and women) is undermerchandised. Home was downsized with mattresses added to about 1/3 of the floor (yet they still have a 40k square foot "furniture store" across the road full of open space since they moved the mattresses out of there). In Reno the Backstage is in a corner of the second floor of the women's store (old kid's department - this was an original build Macy's) in what I would call the lowest traffic and least visible sales space they have. And I thought that was the point of Backstage- to put it into non-productive space. Why would it be on the first floor?

Just because Californians are familiar with Macy's doesn't mean they are going to shop there if the store isn't up to par. Many Californians have moved to Reno; business at Dillards keeps increasing. Many customers who shop at Dillards previously shopped Macy's in California and at minimum shop both stores now. Reno Macy's is a strong performing store but doesn't do close to the business it did 10 years ago. When they dissolved "Macy's West," the store merchandising has been on a downhill slide ever since. Macy's West did a good job. Better than Macy's Northwest ever did.

Reno Macy's is very short staffed and the entire store is a disaster. They released a lot of staff after being closed due to COVID restrictions and their constant restructuring continues to screw them over on staffing. The employees who are on duty seem very comfortable (standing around and talking). They are friendly enough when you go pay, though. And they are right behind the register all the time (best place to talk I guess) even when the departments are a mess and need hours of straightening. My understanding is they have had a number of hiring events and are looking to hire 50+ employees but have not had great luck.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by buckguy »

storewanderer wrote: July 24th, 2021, 1:46 pm
buckguy wrote: July 24th, 2021, 10:56 am
Dillard hasn't been in expansion mode in ages and as a nominally upper middle brow store wouldn't necessarily enter places that Macy (a nominally less upscale store) is exiting. The also have failed in more northerly markets and their sunbelt sensibility doesn't seem like it would be a goof fit for Portland. Their current trajectory seems to be buying back stock rather than investing in anything new, and inflating their dividend. Eventually, when the return becomes insufficient, they'll sell what's left to private equity.

The one chain that shows any signs of expansion is Von Maur, which seems to be moving less westward than in other directions. They seem to want lifestyle centers or else malls that have some life in them, although they are willing to go into places like Dayton that have lost a lot of conventional department stores.


Dillard's is opening a new store in Grand Junction, CO in a few months (old Sears- they basically demolished it). The store will be 100k square feet which is on the smaller side of the scale but it is a medium sized market and it is a new store. That to me constitutes an expansion.

Dillard's also added a 2nd building in Columbia, MO last year (another old Sears) and a 2nd building in Missoula, MT a couple years ago (old CSP- whatever brand they used in MT).

Dillard's also had planned to enter Sioux Falls but that seems to have been delayed but they haven't officially shelved the project yet.

Yes, Dillard's is closing or converting to clearance stores more stores than they have opened, but they have not closed hundreds of stores like Macy's has. They are continuing to open a few new stores and seem to be targeting medium sized markets.

Maybe Dillard's is just trying to keep their in-house construction group busy and that is why they keep having this slow trickle of projects. They do handle all of the construction and expansion projects through an in-house construction group called CDI, but it looks like most of CDI's work is not Dillards-related at this time.
https://www.cdicon.com/portfolio

Even if Dillard's just expands into 2-3 new markets in a year, that results in more territory expansion for them than we are seeing with Macys (who is abandoning many medium sized markets) or Nordstrom (not the right format for these medium sized markets). So I continue to think Macys is leaving some real openings for Dillards in the Pacific Northwest, specifically OR/WA. And maybe it isn't in Seattle or Portland either. Maybe it is in Spokane, Eugene, Salem, Bend, Medford...

How many new stores has Macy's or Nordstrom opened in the past 5 years? Past 10 years? Excluding Backstage and Rack... And how many new markets have they entered with those new stores? Vs. just building another new store in a metro they are already in...
I think you're missing the point---they have closed droves of stores over the last 20 years, esp. in northern markets. The last sizable market they entered probably was Atlanta, a huge market where they only have two stores--which opened about 15 years ago. Atlanta should be perfect for them and and lots of stores have become available in relatively upscale malls there over the last 10-15 years. They could make more opening one new store there than they could with the all the marginal investments they've made in places like Columbia, MO.

The stock buyback thing has been going on for a long time----it's what a lot of equity-owned companies do and the that's what makes the endgame here obvious. Unlike Belk, which seemed to be making an effort to up their game before selling out, Dillard doesn't really have a strategic approach beyond moving some dust around at the margins. Macy's elimination of small market and B-malls seems strategic by comparison.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by norcalriteaidclerk »

Of the 9 California stores on the list(2 in my local media market the other being tracy's west valley mall),entry 32 which is the split format store in sunrise mall(mens and furniture in the legacy weinstocks with women's in the legacy liberty house)is hardly surprising.Yes it outlasted a Sears but its parent mall has has systematically declined over the past 15 years even before the pandemic and not all surrounding neighborhoods are exactly affluent.The city of citrus heights has aggressively pursued a redevelopment of the the aging and once proud mall that traditionally been a regional cash cow even before the city incorporated.At some point,the two separate locations can be consolidated into the larger weinstock building,but that could be up in the air based on its inclusion on the list of underperforming locations.In fact just about every major center in the sunrise marketplace district(not counting a newer smart and final anchored center on the former site of a capital nursery)has a major vacancy though sunrise village(where I have worked in for over 3 years now)is undergoing its own renovations as I speak.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by storewanderer »

buckguy wrote: July 25th, 2021, 11:59 am I think you're missing the point---they have closed droves of stores over the last 20 years, esp. in northern markets. The last sizable market they entered probably was Atlanta, a huge market where they only have two stores--which opened about 15 years ago. Atlanta should be perfect for them and and lots of stores have become available in relatively upscale malls there over the last 10-15 years. They could make more opening one new store there than they could with the all the marginal investments they've made in places like Columbia, MO.

The stock buyback thing has been going on for a long time----it's what a lot of equity-owned companies do and the that's what makes the endgame here obvious. Unlike Belk, which seemed to be making an effort to up their game before selling out, Dillard doesn't really have a strategic approach beyond moving some dust around at the margins. Macy's elimination of small market and B-malls seems strategic by comparison.
This is their business model- they have been using small/medium sized markets for "expansion" for years now. Dillard's hasn't done much in acquisitions since the late 90's. As you point out they had some problems with the Mercantile acquisition and from the looks of it some other 90's transactions, but that all came to a head 20 years ago and they are still in business, haven't been through bankruptcy, and store count has been pretty steady the past 20 years unlike many competitors who have lost hundreds of stores.

I would almost argue that Dillard's learned in the 90's what Macy's learned in the 00's: growth through acquisition is a huge mess. The difference is Dillard's changed course in the 00's and stopped acquiring and kept its expanding into small/medium sized markets (lower barriers to entry, lower costs to enter and operate, smaller store size) whereas Macy's has continued to try and figure out how to make a "one size fits all" strategy apply to all geographies and it just isn't working too well.

I'm still not seeing the closure of "droves" of stores. Looking at Dillards Store count:
Year end, 1994: 229 stores
1998: 328 stores
2001: 338 stores
2011: 308 stores
Year end, 2015: 297 stores
January 2021: 282 stores

Plus they continue to own almost all of their real estate and have little debt.

You seem to like to hammer them for failing in "northern" markets - it looks like they actually sold those stores off, maybe they gave them away, maybe they just wanted to focus on other markets. Like Macy's right now trying to be all things to all people in all geographies and floundering at it, maybe this company's management had enough foresight to know when to say when... on certain geographies. Probably the same reason there are only 3 Dillard's in CA, and in some of the least affluent areas. But they own those 3 CA Stores, they are surviving, and customers respond positively to those stores.

Macy's certainly has invested a lot more in online, inventory control/RFID, marketing, etc., but is the online operation actually profitable? Or is it a money pit? How much have they blown online, at the expense of the store base? Dillard's is not caught up much in that, their online operation is an afterthought (a nice way to put it).
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by rwsandiego »

Romr123 wrote: July 25th, 2021, 4:48 am...Those exurban Chicago/Wisconsin stores were always weird for Marshall Fields, being built more as "since we're dominant here in Chicagoland we'd better not leave any openings/holes" than a good fit for them....
The only Wisconsin store Field's built was in Wauwatosa (Mayfair). It is a smaller version of Oakbrook or pre-expansion Old Orchard. Wauwatosa was a good fit. The other WI stores were rebranded from Gimbels while under BATUS's ownership. Grand Avenue remained a Field's as did Hilldale (Madison). Grand Avenue was eventually closed and Hilldale is now a Macy's.
Romr123 wrote: July 25th, 2021, 4:48 am...During the 80s/90s they were never merchandised as the more metropolitan MF stores--always excluded on newspaper ads, for instance. Dayton Hudson/LS Ayres did a better job with those type "edge" stores than did MF.
Those edge stores were in areas that didn't warrant a Marshall Field's. That just wasn't their market.
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Re: Macy's Neighborhood Store Watch

Post by pseudo3d »

rwsandiego wrote: July 24th, 2021, 7:15 pm Macy's is largely undoing Terry Lundgren's handiwork. Legacy Macy's did not operate in second-tier malls and in second-tier markets. IMO, converting all the nameplates to Macy's diluted their brand and attempting to homogenize all of the stores simply alienated shoppers.

That said, three stores I know of are Cherryvale (Rockford, IL), Louis Joilet (Joliet, IL), and Southridge (Greendale, WI outside of Milwaukee). Cherryvale and Louis Joliet are former Marshall Field's locations that always seemed like odd fits for Field's and equally odd fits for Macy's. Southridge opened as a Macy's, but is housed in a building that started out as a Gimbels, was rebranded Marshall Field's, and was later sold to Prange when Field's divested the former Gimbel's mall stores. It was later re-branded to Younker's when that chain bought Prange's. Younker's was later acquired by Proffitt's, as was Carson, Pirie, Scott (nee P.A. Bergner) who owned Boston Store. There was already a Boston Store in the mall, so the Younker's closed.
To be fair, a lot of the Macy's stores that took over the May Co./Federated names that were already doing pretty badly closed within the first 2-3 years after the merger. Rolling Acres Mall was in one of the first waves I know, and they also closed down Northwest Mall (in Houston)'s store unofficially after Hurricane Ike damage...its last few years as a Foley's was pretty rough due to it being rendered obsolete by the Galleria store.

So...if the idea was to rid Macy's of the "second-class" stores that made it hard to be "all things to all shoppers" (or whatever), why not spin off those stores as a new name and marketing? If they were still owned by Macy's Inc., then they could still share certain back office functions with Macy's and not run the risk of competing with themselves.
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