Signs of trouble at Target?

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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by babs »

The downtown Portland Target inside the Galleria building just filed paperwork with the city to downsize their store. Currently they have a Starbucks on the ground floor and escalators leading to the store on the 2nd and 3rd floor. They now want to downsize the store only the ground floor, taking the space vacated by Brooks Brothers.

Business has always seemed slow when I have been there. But also this store opened as a City Target, before the smaller urban neighborhood Targets became a thing. I don't know if this is a trend that will impact other former City Targets. Or is this is a one off case where a smaller, more efficient layout will perform better.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by Alpha8472 »

The San Francisco Target at the Metreon Shopping Center is a former CityTarget. There were no Target or Walmart stores in San Francisco until CityTarget opened in 2012. San Francisco was hostile to big box stores until Target was finally allowed to open. Walmart is still shunned. The CityTarget name reverted back to Target a few years ago, but most people still think of it as CityTarget.

The CityTarget is quite large, but a little smaller than a normal Target. The problem is that in urban areas many people lack cars so many items in the store go unsold. People can only buy small items or whatever they can carry on the bus. The expensive real estate in urban locations makes these huge stores a money losing problem. The expansive departments have way too much space and a ton of unsold merchandise. Urban Target stores with small floor plans are much more cost effective. The CityTarget in San Francisco can probably be shrunk down only a little. There are still big crowds at this store. The ground floor is a Starbucks and the house of the future attraction. This is a plexiglass house of the future with the latest in futuristic technology. I do not know if it is still there. It originally was a Target sportswear store. The escalators lead to a spectacular second floor with a large PFresh department that is almost like a supermarket inside of a discount store. Then there is a large toy department and panoramic windows overlooking Yerba Buena Gardens. This is one of the only Target stores where you have walls of glass and a giant park outside. It is amazingly beautiful. This Target is also probably the tallest Target in the world as the tower is an iconic monument with a huge Target logo.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by storewanderer »

babs wrote: June 24th, 2020, 10:24 pm The downtown Portland Target inside the Galleria building just filed paperwork with the city to downsize their store. Currently they have a Starbucks on the ground floor and escalators leading to the store on the 2nd and 3rd floor. They now want to downsize the store only the ground floor, taking the space vacated by Brooks Brothers.

Business has always seemed slow when I have been there. But also this store opened as a City Target, before the smaller urban neighborhood Targets became a thing. I don't know if this is a trend that will impact other former City Targets. Or is this is a one off case where a smaller, more efficient layout will perform better.
Seems like retail is struggling in general in downtown Portland and maybe someone else was willing to pay more for those other two floors and they ran the numbers and decided to downsize. What I wonder is what will happen to those other two floors (offices or condos)... Stores that are not on the ground level (or restaurants, etc.) always seem to have a little bit harder time for some reason. San Francisco as mentioned above does well with this layout but I think a lot of that is because of the lack of similar stores around.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by buckguy »

The idea that urban locations need to cater to car owners is mostly nonsense. People have more than buses esp. with the advent of ride sharing services. The DCUSA store in Columbia Heights is reputedly one of the highest volume/square feet stores in the chain. It's smaller than the typical suburban location, but has a full line of merchandise including the usual furniture items, tvs, etc. There is an attached garage that is always grossly underutilized. It's at a busy intersection with Metro and cross-town bus services and although some other big boxes have faltered (Staples, for example, an example of a basically faltering chain), Target has continued to do well. City or suburb, it's a question of picking good locations. The Target near my workplace in the suburbs has an awkward location, away from the main street, but is in the one of the busiest retail corridors in the DC area and continues to do well.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by storewanderer »

buckguy wrote: June 25th, 2020, 5:31 am The idea that urban locations need to cater to car owners is mostly nonsense. People have more than buses esp. with the advent of ride sharing services. The DCUSA store in Columbia Heights is reputedly one of the highest volume/square feet stores in the chain. It's smaller than the typical suburban location, but has a full line of merchandise including the usual furniture items, tvs, etc. There is an attached garage that is always grossly underutilized. It's at a busy intersection with Metro and cross-town bus services and although some other big boxes have faltered (Staples, for example, an example of a basically faltering chain), Target has continued to do well. City or suburb, it's a question of picking good locations. The Target near my workplace in the suburbs has an awkward location, away from the main street, but is in the one of the busiest retail corridors in the DC area and continues to do well.
That really depends on the urban location. Safeway opened a store in downtown San Jose, for instance, that lost the ability to provide free parking. That caused a significant downfall in business and caused the store to close.

In a climate like Portland I could see it being important to cater to car owners given how often it rains.

I would agree the location in downtown San Francisco probably does not need to cater to car owners.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by babs »

storewanderer wrote: June 25th, 2020, 9:15 pm
buckguy wrote: June 25th, 2020, 5:31 am The idea that urban locations need to cater to car owners is mostly nonsense. People have more than buses esp. with the advent of ride sharing services. The DCUSA store in Columbia Heights is reputedly one of the highest volume/square feet stores in the chain. It's smaller than the typical suburban location, but has a full line of merchandise including the usual furniture items, tvs, etc. There is an attached garage that is always grossly underutilized. It's at a busy intersection with Metro and cross-town bus services and although some other big boxes have faltered (Staples, for example, an example of a basically faltering chain), Target has continued to do well. City or suburb, it's a question of picking good locations. The Target near my workplace in the suburbs has an awkward location, away from the main street, but is in the one of the busiest retail corridors in the DC area and continues to do well.
That really depends on the urban location. Safeway opened a store in downtown San Jose, for instance, that lost the ability to provide free parking. That caused a significant downfall in business and caused the store to close.

In a climate like Portland I could see it being important to cater to car owners given how often it rains.

I would agree the location in downtown San Francisco probably does not need to cater to car owners.
The location of the downtown Portland store doesn't need car parking. It's located in between the University District and the Pearl District. Very few of the thousands of apartments around there have parking. The streetcar and MAX line stop right in front of the store. Regardless, there is one level of parking below the store and a 6 or 8 story parking garage across the street run by the city with discounted rates. And if you live in Portland and rain is an issue, you are living in the wrong city.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by babs »

storewanderer wrote: June 24th, 2020, 11:31 pm
babs wrote: June 24th, 2020, 10:24 pm The downtown Portland Target inside the Galleria building just filed paperwork with the city to downsize their store. Currently they have a Starbucks on the ground floor and escalators leading to the store on the 2nd and 3rd floor. They now want to downsize the store only the ground floor, taking the space vacated by Brooks Brothers.

Business has always seemed slow when I have been there. But also this store opened as a City Target, before the smaller urban neighborhood Targets became a thing. I don't know if this is a trend that will impact other former City Targets. Or is this is a one off case where a smaller, more efficient layout will perform better.
Seems like retail is struggling in general in downtown Portland and maybe someone else was willing to pay more for those other two floors and they ran the numbers and decided to downsize. What I wonder is what will happen to those other two floors (offices or condos)... Stores that are not on the ground level (or restaurants, etc.) always seem to have a little bit harder time for some reason. San Francisco as mentioned above does well with this layout but I think a lot of that is because of the lack of similar stores around.
The Galleria building where Target is located was sold for top dollar after the Target store opened. Brooks Brothers occupied much of the 1st floor and a large cooking school was located on the upper floors. Since then the cooking school went out of business, Brooks Brothers shut down and now Target is downsizing. The building is currently under renovating with a penthouse going on the roof and the upper floors being turned into "creative" office space. I would guess the Target space will become office space as well. It's too bad as a lot of money was spent renovating the building for Target. They cut a new atrium, seismically reinforced the building with visible shock absorbers.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by SamSpade »

storewanderer wrote: June 24th, 2020, 11:31 pm Seems like retail is struggling in general in downtown Portland and maybe someone else was willing to pay more for those other two floors and they ran the numbers and decided to downsize. What I wonder is what will happen to those other two floors (offices or condos)... Stores that are not on the ground level (or restaurants, etc.) always seem to have a little bit harder time for some reason. San Francisco as mentioned above does well with this layout but I think a lot of that is because of the lack of similar stores around.
Off Topic
The "Galleria" building in Portland has an interesting history. However, in recent years, it's mostly vacant. I'm not sure if the Naito family still holds this property or sold it off? After Bill (Sr?) passed, the children have had many disagreements about how to manage properties, although they have kept all the Made in Oregon stores going as far as I know.

The upper floors and a portion of the first floor were occupied by the Le Cordon Bleu academy and another vocational college, but I believe both fell victim to the 'for-profit college' examination by the federal government and a decline in those seeking higher education as the economy improved through 2019.
Sounds like the new floorplan will more resemble a "Target drugstore" similar to Philadelphia, PA; the new Powell Blvd. store in Portland, Berkeley, CA, etc.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by babs »

SamSpade wrote: June 26th, 2020, 11:58 am
storewanderer wrote: June 24th, 2020, 11:31 pm Seems like retail is struggling in general in downtown Portland and maybe someone else was willing to pay more for those other two floors and they ran the numbers and decided to downsize. What I wonder is what will happen to those other two floors (offices or condos)... Stores that are not on the ground level (or restaurants, etc.) always seem to have a little bit harder time for some reason. San Francisco as mentioned above does well with this layout but I think a lot of that is because of the lack of similar stores around.
Off Topic
The "Galleria" building in Portland has an interesting history. However, in recent years, it's mostly vacant. I'm not sure if the Naito family still holds this property or sold it off? After Bill (Sr?) passed, the children have had many disagreements about how to manage properties, although they have kept all the Made in Oregon stores going as far as I know.

The upper floors and a portion of the first floor were occupied by the Le Cordon Bleu academy and another vocational college, but I believe both fell victim to the 'for-profit college' examination by the federal government and a decline in those seeking higher education as the economy improved through 2019.
Sounds like the new floorplan will more resemble a "Target drugstore" similar to Philadelphia, PA; the new Powell Blvd. store in Portland, Berkeley, CA, etc.
The Naito family sold it to Unico, the big developers out of Seattle. All the real estate they owned has been sold off. I'm just wondering if the former City Targets could over time be downsized to the small format Targets that are now opening all over the country. Would cut rent and operational costs way down in these expensive to do business areas. Something to watch.
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Re: Signs of trouble at Target?

Post by Alpha8472 »

The tiny Target near UC Berkeley was like a glorified convenience store. It had a CVS inside but with a very limited selection of Target items. There was food and various grab and go items. However, there were no diapers and many out of stock items. The store cannot keep items in stock. There were no earbuds, very few phone chargers, cords, etc. It was like a CVS but with Target prices. There was a clothing section, but it was mostly UC Berkeley fan clothing or sportswear.

They had a security guard at the door since the neighborhood was filled with homeless people, agressive panhandlers, and shoplifters. It did not feel safe even during the day. The employees looked like they were battle weary having to deal with the shoplifters and homeless people loitering around all day. The shoplifting losses are apparently quite huge. You thought CVS had problems with a bum rush of homeless people raiding stores, this Target was just as bad. The nearby Oakland mini Target is still closed due to looting. That store may never reopen. The shoplifting and looting makes these urban stores teeter on the edge of being closed down.

I would rather go out of my way to a safer location, than have to deal with the agressive bums or the homeless druggies injecting drugs in front of the store. The police cannot do anything these days. They will not even show up if you call them.
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