AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

cjd
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by cjd »

storewanderer wrote: April 19th, 2020, 8:06 pmWell, the reason I thought this contactless/video from home stuff was being pushed hard just before the virus came was due to the ongoing labor shortages and trying to flatten the delivery method to the customer.

But you do have to wonder about the timing of the whole thing.
Who knows, this whole year has been a blur to me. I had more imminent issues happening in the early days of the virus so it was more of a background thing to me at the time.

Back to the theater issue, I think it will likely be far later than June before these kind of places reopen. Since health officials and scientists are generally saying up to two years before a vaccine is developed and tested, I'm going under the assumption that two years is likely the point when life will get completely back to normal. (As far as not having to wear masks anymore, and no more talk about virtual this and that and not being able to go to concerts, sporting events, graduations, dinner parties, etc).

They are working very hard on vaccines, but the testing phase is long so I think we'll likely at the very least be at next summer (2021) before one is able to be approved, then by the time it could be distributed, we'd be in next fall at the very earliest. So I think a two year timeframe is more accurate. If none of the current trials work, then it's back to square one and a two year window seems definite, if not more like three.

This is assuming a vaccine can even work based on whether or not there are enough antibodies that have any lasting effect. There may be other treatments in the interim, but so far everything seems to not really be working with any proven effects. At most the world has only been at this since December, and more like February to March so we are still very early though.

If there are any antibodies, we may reach a population immunity first, but it will take many more NYC horrific wave scenarios around the country/globe for that to possibly happen. We aren't anywhere close to that having happened, so I think we may have a vaccine before that.

That said, I don't see theaters making it well in the short term (or opening at all). In the long term they may come back under some other management after this mess is finally put to bed.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by Alpha8472 »

Georgia is reopening theaters and dine in restaurants on Monday. This will be the test. If people sit far apart and wear masks this might be manageable. However, if people do not wear masks, it will be like breathing in coronavirus for 2 hours. When you eat, you are unmasked and unprotected.

I would not go to an indoor theater or a dine in restaurant without a mask. Drive in theaters would be acceptable as long as people are spaced apart. Outdoor dining may be acceptable if there is enough separation. Every single employee should wear a mask.

AMC might be able to make this work, but they would have to require empty seats between customers and limits on how many people are in each auditorium. The best practice would be to ban eating and require masks. However, AMC makes most of their money by selling food at the concession stand. So people will go unmasked.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by cjd »

I was aware GA was reopening some things but not movie theaters. Personally I think they are doing this too early and some businesses seem to feel the same and are staying closed.

The whole idea of having to wear a mask in order to feel safe doing anything to me seems to take the fun out of it. I can see wearing one to go to a store or for other necessary trips that have to be made, and are relatively short. But for non essential things, I'd rather just stay away until we can control the virus better. I understand places like Japan often wear masks and to some it's just a normal thing to do in order to be polite. I have no issues with that but for me, they are still just for medical use or if you're in a toxic environment. If I have to wear a mask in order to go somewhere, it's a sign I'd rather just not be in that environment if possible.

The tests mentioned earlier could help with feeling more comfortable going. Temperature checks IMO are nearly pointless because fever is not a clear indicator of not having the virus, and most people would know if they felt hot then they probably need to stay home. I guess it would be more to keep people out who were ignoring it and trying to still go anyway.

I guess we'll see what the public's response is. I felt reasonably comfortable at first with having restaurants open as long as the capacity was limited. But now I'm rethinking that. I think I'd just wait until we have enough of a drop in cases and there are better methods to test and isolate those with it. Which could be a very long time unfortunately.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by BillyGr »

cjd wrote: April 25th, 2020, 12:38 pm The tests mentioned earlier could help with feeling more comfortable going. Temperature checks IMO are nearly pointless because fever is not a clear indicator of not having the virus, and most people would know if they felt hot then they probably need to stay home. I guess it would be more to keep people out who were ignoring it and trying to still go anyway.
One also has to wonder just how accurate they will be as we get into more summer like weather, particularly if the person going somewhere has been outside for a time or in a vehicle without air conditioning (which still happens)?
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by storewanderer »

cjd wrote: April 25th, 2020, 12:38 pm

The whole idea of having to wear a mask in order to feel safe doing anything to me seems to take the fun out of it. I can see wearing one to go to a store or for other necessary trips that have to be made, and are relatively short. But for non essential things, I'd rather just stay away until we can control the virus better.

The tests mentioned earlier could help with feeling more comfortable going. Temperature checks IMO are nearly pointless because fever is not a clear indicator of not having the virus, and most people would know if they felt hot then they probably need to stay home. I guess it would be more to keep people out who were ignoring it and trying to still go anyway.

I think if you want to do something badly enough you will wear the mask. If I had to, for instance, go in an airplane (either for work or for personal reasons), go to a hospital or any medical provider really (either for personal reasons or for work or other reasons), I would feel much better wearing a mask for that couple of hours.

But now tell me I have to wear a mask to go to a leisure activity such as a movie or go bowling and I will just go without doing either activity. Wearing a mask isn't real comfortable for long time periods and it is hot and uncomfortable when it is summer.

The mask is only safe if you put it on, keep it on, and do not touch it. The second you touch the mask, the safety is compromised. In retail stores now I am seeing so many customers and employees touching their masks, taking them on and off, etc. This completely compromises the mask. I was guilty of it myself the first time I went out with one as I posted here 2-3 weeks ago.

We have gone from one extreme to the other here in the US where wearing a mask was not so acceptable to suddenly now being something of a "requirement" even blindly and even if not used properly. This mask situation needs some serious guidance and people need to understand how to use masks in order to get the benefit from the mask use and not negate the benefits.

Movie theaters - I simply do not see coming back very successfully with a mask requirement. Also this social distancing thing. Can they even be profitable at 50% capacity? I doubt it. How do you eat popcorn with a mask on? You don't. Imagine swallowing the popcorn wrong and coughing in a theater, wow, you will probably be thrown out and subject to a health check. How do you laugh or smile to whoever you are with at the movie in reaction to a movie scene with a mask on? You don't. I suppose people can adapt and make it work or they can just stay home where they do not have to worry about a mask and feel paranoid about catching some virus and be able to freely express their emotions during the movie.

Is this really the direction we want to be taking as a society?
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by Alpha8472 »

If only everyone were to isolate until it is gone. Then once it is gone, we can all go out again. The problem is that people without symptoms are going out and spreading it and not all people wear masks.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by cjd »

storewanderer wrote: April 26th, 2020, 1:17 pmI think if you want to do something badly enough you will wear the mask. If I had to, for instance, go in an airplane (either for work or for personal reasons), go to a hospital or any medical provider really (either for personal reasons or for work or other reasons), I would feel much better wearing a mask for that couple of hours.

But now tell me I have to wear a mask to go to a leisure activity such as a movie or go bowling and I will just go without doing either activity. Wearing a mask isn't real comfortable for long time periods and it is hot and uncomfortable when it is summer.

The mask is only safe if you put it on, keep it on, and do not touch it. The second you touch the mask, the safety is compromised. In retail stores now I am seeing so many customers and employees touching their masks, taking them on and off, etc. This completely compromises the mask. I was guilty of it myself the first time I went out with one as I posted here 2-3 weeks ago.

We have gone from one extreme to the other here in the US where wearing a mask was not so acceptable to suddenly now being something of a "requirement" even blindly and even if not used properly. This mask situation needs some serious guidance and people need to understand how to use masks in order to get the benefit from the mask use and not negate the benefits.

Movie theaters - I simply do not see coming back very successfully with a mask requirement. Also this social distancing thing. Can they even be profitable at 50% capacity? I doubt it. How do you eat popcorn with a mask on? You don't. Imagine swallowing the popcorn wrong and coughing in a theater, wow, you will probably be thrown out and subject to a health check. How do you laugh or smile to whoever you are with at the movie in reaction to a movie scene with a mask on? You don't. I suppose people can adapt and make it work or they can just stay home where they do not have to worry about a mask and feel paranoid about catching some virus and be able to freely express their emotions during the movie.

Is this really the direction we want to be taking as a society?
My thoughts exactly. I can wear a mask to go to the grocery store, pharmacy or other essential things for maybe 30 minutes. I get the need and I'm fine with that. But for totally nonessential things like going to a theater, bowling, theme park etc, forget it. If there is such a risk involved that I need to wear a mask I'd just rather stay home and not need the protective gear.

I think most people would likely feel the same way.

Here in FL I read that theaters will definitely not be opening whenever the state opens. Whatever got into GA to reopen all the things it's opening, I think the majority disagree with.

This is not complying with the state criteria for a sustained 14 day drop in cases. Few if any areas of the country could fit that criteria at the moment, and I don't think we're anywhere close to doing it anywhere. I think the majority of people realize this.

I'm not entirely sure why the cases keep rising so much. It's not like we're dramatically increasing testing capacity and testing wider ranges of society.

I do not believe we will ever likely reach phase two or three of the CDC guidelines, if we're even able to get through the starting gate without having cases keep rising. This is a very contagious virus.

Our best hope at this point is probably a vaccine or other treatments that cut the virus risk far down. I was reading last night that there are actually some promising vaccines in the testing phases now. That's where my hope is at the moment with this mess. With this kind of an emergency they are really pushing hard. Some are saying at least one could even be ready for production by the fall if the testing goes well. The issue is manufacturing and distribution is a slow process, and imagine trying to get a vaccine to almost everyone in a population! That sounds like a very time consuming process as well.

So that said I'm not sure how we'll get out of this. I'd like to think it's sooner than later but the possibility of that is looking pretty low given how the cases keep climbing. I think we have pretty much flattened the curve in some areas, so I think people have taken the social distancing seriously, but the problem is we have to keep the curve flattened, which means we can't really get things moving again until the virus is eradicated, or is otherwise no longer an issue. And that's where the virus has us stuck. Unless we locked everyone into their homes and delivered everything they needed I don't think we could quash the virus with how well it spreads and how much it has spread. Some countries are in different situations on that.

I think the CDC downplaying mask wearing was entirely due to the lack of them. If you look at the 1918 pandemic, mask wearing was widespread. I believe San Francisco even made it law that masks be worn in public at the time. So I don't see why anyone would say it wouldn't be a help. Like anything they can be misused or give people false assurance that they are safe. To me masks are a preventative measure in the situation. Wearing them all the time is just not practical, so I'd rather limit doing the things that would require me to wear one in order to stay safe.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by klkla »

cjd wrote: April 26th, 2020, 2:48 pmThis is not complying with the state criteria for a sustained 14 day drop in cases. Few if any areas of the country could fit that criteria at the moment, and I don't think we're anywhere close to doing it anywhere. I think the majority of people realize this.

I'm not entirely sure why the cases keep rising so much. It's not like we're dramatically increasing testing capacity and testing wider ranges of society.
We have been increasing testing (but not nearly enough) so that is actually having a sizeable impact on why we are still seeing a rise in cases. We have tested 1,492,000 people in the last 7 days compared to 425,000 for the same period last month.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by Alpha8472 »

There is one country that has only 6 deaths from coronavirus: Taiwan. The population of 24 million has mask rationing, but they have enough surgical masks for everyone and they are all made locally in Taiwan. There are only 426 cases of coronavirus.

The U.S. has many people wearing useless masks such as the masks with the valves. Those spray unfiltered air out of the nozzles. They should be banned. Other people in the U.S. are wearing cheap bandanas or cloths that provide little protection.

Taiwan is not suffering from an economic problem, and their people are not dying like crazy. They live in crowded cities and are well protected with surgical masks. It is the type of mask that can prevent infection.

The U.S. needs to use the war powers act and force companies to make enough surgical masks for everyone and force mask usage in all businesses that are open such as movie theaters.
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Re: AMC Theaters expected to file for bankruptcy

Post by BillyGr »

The question is, will the wearing of masks be required for those activities?

For instance, the NY rules were that you only needed one when you couldn't keep a distance. So, for instance in a bowling alley you might need to put one on when you enter and exit (being near people paying, getting balls and shoes and such), but if they set it up so only every other lane (or pair if you prefer to do a tournament style) was in use, once you were actually bowling you would only be with those you came with (and you don't need masks to be with them at home).

Theaters could also do the spacing somewhat differently - not necessarily using all seats separated, but allowing a family of, say 4 to sit side by side, which would then give them room to leave space between those groups. Depending on how many you get to attend, it may limit the need for masks once in there (just put one on if you need to use the restroom and again when arriving and leaving).

Neither may totally work, but in many cases they could, and likely (at least as a starting point) you'd have less that want to go anyway so the reduced capacity wouldn't cause too much issue in getting everyone who wants to be there in and out.
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