Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

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Alpha8472
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Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by Alpha8472 » May 9th, 2020, 1:46 pm

The coronavirus situation is going to cause malls to rethink indoor vs. outdoor. Outdoor malls seem to have an advantage now. Coronavirus is unlikely to transmit outdoors. Sunlight kills coronavirus. Malls should rethink outdoor dining areas. They could have outdoor dining areas and outdoor food courts.

The indoor dining thing will not work. You do not have the room to properly space out and it is not cost effective to run a half empty restaurant.

Parking lots could be converted to outdoor dining and then you could have clusters of kitchens by the parking lot.

It will be a major undertaking. However, outdoor malls could be a thing of the future. Southern California has many outdoor malls and lots of outdoor dining areas.

Clothing stores could switch to a parking lot sale format. They could fence off an area and sell during the day. The merchandise could be brought back in at night. If weather is a problem, perhaps they could set up an open air tent or some sort of shade.

cjd
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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by cjd » May 10th, 2020, 6:31 am

A lot of the more modern, upscale malls do have restaurants in them that have outdoor patios and covered open dining areas. I haven't seen any food courts with shared outdoor areas though. Since most places have open areas adjacent to the food court, I guess it would be pretty simple to create an outdoor patio. During the summer here in FL, don't think it would work too well in the 90+ heat or rainy weather.

I think the indoor mall concept was already on the way out. Not very many of these properties were being built in the last decade or two. Most new shopping places or malls were of the outdoor or lifestyle center design, with no interior shared spaces. Many of the older enclosed malls have had parts of them demolished so that the stores now open up to outdoor common areas similar to the new outdoor malls. Along with mixed use office and living spaces adjacent to the retail parts.

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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by BillyGr » May 10th, 2020, 10:43 am

And the opposite side of that being too hot is places like here in NY, where outdoor dining could work now (well, if we stop getting snow showers like yesterday) and through the summer, but isn't going to work for a good part of the year.

Same goes for the shopping side - people like being inside during the colder seasons (such as doing Christmas time shopping) and the malls are better to allow access to many stores without the need to go in & out multiple times.

So any change like that would likely only be temporary in these areas, which might be all that is needed (or at least we hope that).

storewanderer
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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by storewanderer » May 10th, 2020, 11:06 am

Don't forget the wind as a major disruption for outdoor restaurants and shopping.

That is an issue for us in Reno all year.

Outdoor works in nice climates like FL and CA. It doesn't work many other places for many reasons.

There's a reason why there are only two Disney parks in the US.

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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by jamcool » May 10th, 2020, 11:46 am

We have several open air shopping centers in Phoenix that do well year round...like Biltmore Fashion. The secret is shaded walkways, greenery, and water features.

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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by pseudo3d » May 10th, 2020, 3:50 pm

Alpha8472 wrote:
May 9th, 2020, 1:46 pm
Clothing stores could switch to a parking lot sale format. They could fence off an area and sell during the day. The merchandise could be brought back in at night. If weather is a problem, perhaps they could set up an open air tent or some sort of shade.
A year or two back, I remember seeing a stand-alone Sears doing that with some clothing. It did not improve the appearance of the store, to put it kindly.

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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by rwsandiego » May 10th, 2020, 6:59 pm

Old Orchard and Oakbrook Center are both open-air centers located in Chicago suburbs. They both do very well year 'round. Of course, no one is dining outdoors in winter. Regarding wind, it does not deter people from eating outdoors in Chicago when the weather is nice. People just learn to deal with it.

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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by storewanderer » May 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm

rwsandiego wrote:
May 10th, 2020, 6:59 pm
Old Orchard and Oakbrook Center are both open-air centers located in Chicago suburbs. They both do very well year 'round. Of course, no one is dining outdoors in winter. Regarding wind, it does not deter people from eating outdoors in Chicago when the weather is nice. People just learn to deal with it.
Outdoor seating has always been a hard sell here in NV. It is not unusual with chain restaurants to have an "outdoor" option with no waiting, but people to wait 30+ minutes for a table inside instead. All it takes is one person in the group who does not want to eat outside. The chain restaurants constructed here have smaller outdoor seating areas than their counterparts in CA, so the chains seem to take this into account when building here. As I sit here typing this, the wind is howling at 20-30 MPH.

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Re: Indoor Vs. Outdoor Malls & Restaurants

Post by Super S » May 12th, 2020, 6:56 am

storewanderer wrote:
May 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm
rwsandiego wrote:
May 10th, 2020, 6:59 pm
Old Orchard and Oakbrook Center are both open-air centers located in Chicago suburbs. They both do very well year 'round. Of course, no one is dining outdoors in winter. Regarding wind, it does not deter people from eating outdoors in Chicago when the weather is nice. People just learn to deal with it.
Outdoor seating has always been a hard sell here in NV. It is not unusual with chain restaurants to have an "outdoor" option with no waiting, but people to wait 30+ minutes for a table inside instead. All it takes is one person in the group who does not want to eat outside. The chain restaurants constructed here have smaller outdoor seating areas than their counterparts in CA, so the chains seem to take this into account when building here. As I sit here typing this, the wind is howling at 20-30 MPH.
Outdoor seating exists at some restaurants in the Pacific Northwest, but is rarely used apart from when there are sunny days in the spring and summer.

Another trend I have been noticing is bars installing roll-up doors (like a garage door) to open the whole facility up to the air at times. I don't get that...it is an opportunity to bring in various outside noises and smells (like local paper mills) not to mention birds, bugs, etc. It just seems like this opens those places up to a whole new level of potential health risks. I know of at least three local establishments that have done this in recent years, one of the roll-up doors faces a busy street with a sidewalk that offers nothing spectacular.

I have found service seems to be lacking when I have chosen to sit in outdoor areas, so I tend to avoid them unless getting something quick like a sandwich.

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