Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Super S
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Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by Super S »

A friend of mine recently visited Mall 205. The two-story Target there (former Montgomery Ward) is undergoing a remodel, but is not open to the inside of the mall. My friend went inside and said it looks like they are permanently blocking off the inside entrance (it looks like it has been walled off inside the store, and a note was posted that said "Due to mall closure this entrance will be closed until further notice") Also, the Famous Footwear store was open but had the mall entrance gate closed. My friend also told me the DMV office inside the mall remains open, as well as a 24 Hour Fitness, but Home Depot's inside mall entrance was also locked, with virtually no other stores open inside the mall.

I find this interesting as, if they are in fact closing the inside mall, it would make sense for Target to build a more standard store instead of remodeling the existing building, as they did at Jantzen Beach.

I have not seen any news stories about a redevelopment, but it would not surprise me.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by pseudo3d »

Adding a Home Depot as a mall anchor was always a pretty gutsy move, but the mall interior has been suffering for years, and given Portland being Portland, security issues probably forced it to close.

Too bad. Non-traditional anchors like Home Depot have been pretty underutilized overall in mall interiors.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by veteran+ »

I'm not a fan of retail malls that have Home Depot type stores in the mix unless they are far away from the mall.

The traffic and type of vehicles all day long at Home improvement stores does not mix with retail well.

Also, the men loitering around?
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by babs »

The closure.of Bed Bath and Beyond plus the inability to lease the interior of the mall prompted them to close.it and try to find someone who will take a large chunk of space.

https://www.cra-nw.com/properties/mall-205.html

Also, the Target building and land is owned by Target and not by the mall owner. Rebuilding the store as a single level store would require some real estate moves.

The Home Depot store is a rework of the mall because of the challenges in locating a big box store within Portland city limits. By building the store within the same footprint as the mall you avoid a lengthy and costly land use battle. You may not like it but it's a smart move.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by Super S »

babs wrote: November 7th, 2021, 5:30 pm The closure.of Bed Bath and Beyond plus the inability to lease the interior of the mall prompted them to close.it and try to find someone who will take a large chunk of space.

https://www.cra-nw.com/properties/mall-205.html

Also, the Target building and land is owned by Target and not by the mall owner. Rebuilding the store as a single level store would require some real estate moves.

The Home Depot store is a rework of the mall because of the challenges in locating a big box store within Portland city limits. By building the store within the same footprint as the mall you avoid a lengthy and costly land use battle. You may not like it but it's a smart move.
I still find it interesting though that Target is remodeling the existing building with the vacant space in between, especially when you consider that Jantzen Beach was in a very similar situation when the rest of the mall was redeveloped. Target could have expanded into part of the mall interior and converted to a one-story store layout, retaining the second story for storage, offices, or whatever.

I do remember how the mall was laid out previously and how Home Depot took over the space. There was a former larger PayLess Drug (later Rite Aid) as well as a former Emporium, as well as part of the interior mall corridor, inside part of Home Depot's present space. It is an interesting anchor to be using an inside mall entrance though.

Mall 205 has the disadvantage of being relatively close to Clackamas Town Center, and this is a huge reason why this was never a "Grade A" mall, but that didn't stop Montgomery Ward from having stores in both malls until the end.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by ClownLoach »

When Jantzen Beach was replaced with a standard format Target they were still very early in their evolution to the highly customized Target stores they operate today. They had only a handful of multi story locations mostly in traditional malls. That was when every "regular" Target was the exact same layout except for which side the entrance was on. Same exact merchandise, same exact pricing, same exact store hours. They were built on standardization until they ran out of runway in the 2010's. Now no two Target stores are even close to each other in assortment, layout, or store design. I think modern computerized space planning has enabled the evolution of their brand; Target was the first retailer to use planograms for example and now they can automate the process entirely as unique planograms are created on a store by store basis to add local SKUs, expand facings of local best sellers, etc. With all of that in mind, unless the layout is off-putting to the customer or negatively affecting sales there is really no reason for Target to replace the store with a "standard format" especially with the difficulty of zoning in Oregon for big boxes. (Fred Meyer must have donated millions to local politicians once their stores were built out - they're larger than many Walmart and Target stores yet they seem to not have any problems getting construction, remodels etc approved in that tough environment).
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by Super S »

ClownLoach wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 4:06 pm When Jantzen Beach was replaced with a standard format Target they were still very early in their evolution to the highly customized Target stores they operate today. They had only a handful of multi story locations mostly in traditional malls. That was when every "regular" Target was the exact same layout except for which side the entrance was on. Same exact merchandise, same exact pricing, same exact store hours. They were built on standardization until they ran out of runway in the 2010's. Now no two Target stores are even close to each other in assortment, layout, or store design. I think modern computerized space planning has enabled the evolution of their brand; Target was the first retailer to use planograms for example and now they can automate the process entirely as unique planograms are created on a store by store basis to add local SKUs, expand facings of local best sellers, etc. With all of that in mind, unless the layout is off-putting to the customer or negatively affecting sales there is really no reason for Target to replace the store with a "standard format" especially with the difficulty of zoning in Oregon for big boxes. (Fred Meyer must have donated millions to local politicians once their stores were built out - they're larger than many Walmart and Target stores yet they seem to not have any problems getting construction, remodels etc approved in that tough environment).
Target historically wasn't known for catering to local tastes, but I think we are seeing some change happening. Part of this is how they recently seem to be experimenting with all kinds of store layouts and different types of buildings. Then we are seeing them moving into areas such as Jackson, Wyoming where local tastes are going to carry the store, a former Kmart, during the off-season. It is going to be interesting to see if they change their mix a little to appeal to those who were more familiar with the merchandise at Kmart.

Back to Mall 205....I wonder what types of retail would be interested in that space? I am drawing a blank.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by babs »

ClownLoach wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 4:06 pm When Jantzen Beach was replaced with a standard format Target they were still very early in their evolution to the highly customized Target stores they operate today. They had only a handful of multi story locations mostly in traditional malls. That was when every "regular" Target was the exact same layout except for which side the entrance was on. Same exact merchandise, same exact pricing, same exact store hours. They were built on standardization until they ran out of runway in the 2010's. Now no two Target stores are even close to each other in assortment, layout, or store design. I think modern computerized space planning has enabled the evolution of their brand; Target was the first retailer to use planograms for example and now they can automate the process entirely as unique planograms are created on a store by store basis to add local SKUs, expand facings of local best sellers, etc. With all of that in mind, unless the layout is off-putting to the customer or negatively affecting sales there is really no reason for Target to replace the store with a "standard format" especially with the difficulty of zoning in Oregon for big boxes. (Fred Meyer must have donated millions to local politicians once their stores were built out - they're larger than many Walmart and Target stores yet they seem to not have any problems getting construction, remodels etc approved in that tough environment).
Fred Meyer spent millions of dollars and took a lawsuit to the highest levels to get their Hollywood West store approved. They also downsized their plans for a rebuild of the Burlingame store due to city requiring them to add apartments on top of any new store. They had to also walk away from a new store next to their corporate office. In the suburb, I can think of at least three sites that they didn't get approval on either. So I don't know where you are getting that Fred Meyer has bought off the politicians in the Portland area to build stores.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by Super S »

babs wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 11:41 pm

Fred Meyer spent millions of dollars and took a lawsuit to the highest levels to get their Hollywood West store approved. They also downsized their plans for a rebuild of the Burlingame store due to city requiring them to add apartments on top of any new store. They had to also walk away from a new store next to their corporate office. In the suburb, I can think of at least three sites that they didn't get approval on either. So I don't know where you are getting that Fred Meyer has bought off the politicians in the Portland area to build stores.
Fred Meyer has also walked away when permitting processes take too long. This happened in Centralia, WA. (And I am starting to wonder how much longer WinCo is willing to wait for the same site) But in the case of Mall 205...Portland seems to me more welcoming to Target than they are of other chains. They could expand in to mall space in a similar manner as Home Depot took over existing mall space.
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Re: Changes coming to Portland's Mall 205?

Post by babs »

Super S wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:48 am
babs wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 11:41 pm

Fred Meyer spent millions of dollars and took a lawsuit to the highest levels to get their Hollywood West store approved. They also downsized their plans for a rebuild of the Burlingame store due to city requiring them to add apartments on top of any new store. They had to also walk away from a new store next to their corporate office. In the suburb, I can think of at least three sites that they didn't get approval on either. So I don't know where you are getting that Fred Meyer has bought off the politicians in the Portland area to build stores.
Fred Meyer has also walked away when permitting processes take too long. This happened in Centralia, WA. (And I am starting to wonder how much longer WinCo is willing to wait for the same site) But in the case of Mall 205...Portland seems to me more welcoming to Target than they are of other chains. They could expand in to mall space in a similar manner as Home Depot took over existing mall space.
There is some truth to that. Former mayor Sam Adams had a No Walmart sign in his office at city hall.
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