Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post Reply
Super S
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2058
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 39 times
Status: Offline

Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by Super S »

https://www.wweek.com/news/business/201 ... S9pE5O14zM

Lloyd Center gives off mixed signals these days and this article has some good points.
klkla
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1593
Joined: February 24th, 2009, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by klkla »

It's an interesting article.

It seems to me that the mall's owner has not been very strategic in developing a plan to deal with the change in shopping habits. The neighborhood itself is growing in population and is in a location with good foot traffic and access to transit. And it has tons of parking.

The malls that are surviving have changed to lifestyle-based formats. Amazon has changed the way we shop but has not lessened our desire for social interaction. Stores like Eataly (a mixture of retail and restaurants) and luxury theaters that offer dining in addition to the movie are examples of how to achieve this.

But this mall doesn't seem to have a broad vision of where it wants to go. The newly remodeled Westfield Century City, The Grove, the Americana and The Block in downtown LA are examples here in CA that are thriving in this new environment.

I'm sure this mall in fast growing urban Portland can remain relevant with the right strategy.
storewanderer
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 6956
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Been thanked: 179 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by storewanderer »

Pretty rough article and when you have a store like Marshalls closing because of theft and issues at the mall, it shows there is a problem here that is out of control. Also the reports of vehicles being stolen from the mall parking garage (a 2000 vehicle being stolen in 2019?) are more than a bit unsettling.

I think part of the problem is this mall is simply too big, for the amount of retail that currently is present. It will be tough to get a lot of people to go here for other activities when it has a reputation for not being safe. How to downsize the retail space and repurpose excess space for other uses is the big question here. It really may come down to a demolish all or part of this mall and redevelop the land with other uses is the best way to go.
babs
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 364
Joined: December 20th, 2016, 3:08 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 45 times
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by babs »

storewanderer wrote: December 23rd, 2019, 11:23 pm Pretty rough article and when you have a store like Marshalls closing because of theft and issues at the mall, it shows there is a problem here that is out of control. Also the reports of vehicles being stolen from the mall parking garage (a 2000 vehicle being stolen in 2019?) are more than a bit unsettling.

I think part of the problem is this mall is simply too big, for the amount of retail that currently is present. It will be tough to get a lot of people to go here for other activities when it has a reputation for not being safe. How to downsize the retail space and repurpose excess space for other uses is the big question here. It really may come down to a demolish all or part of this mall and redevelop the land with other uses is the best way to go.
Lloyd Center had agreements with Live Nation for a music venue (potentially a House of Blues) and an upscale bowling alley to replace Nordstroms. They also had plans to move and expand the movie theater into a repurposed Sears building with the rest of the building being turned into office space. Just like you described. All went through city approval but there hasn't been any movement in 2019.

What I suspect is really going on is that everyone is getting cold feet sinking money into the mall. Once a mall goes down hill, you have a domino effect. I've never seen a mall get turned around once the domino effect starts without a complete redevelopment.

The wild card is Macy's. I suspect this store could be on their January closing list. If that's the case, more stores will close. At that point, the mall is done. It will cost fortune to demolish that place. It's really well built.
storewanderer
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 6956
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Been thanked: 179 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by storewanderer »

babs wrote: December 26th, 2019, 4:51 pm
storewanderer wrote: December 23rd, 2019, 11:23 pm Pretty rough article and when you have a store like Marshalls closing because of theft and issues at the mall, it shows there is a problem here that is out of control. Also the reports of vehicles being stolen from the mall parking garage (a 2000 vehicle being stolen in 2019?) are more than a bit unsettling.

I think part of the problem is this mall is simply too big, for the amount of retail that currently is present. It will be tough to get a lot of people to go here for other activities when it has a reputation for not being safe. How to downsize the retail space and repurpose excess space for other uses is the big question here. It really may come down to a demolish all or part of this mall and redevelop the land with other uses is the best way to go.
Lloyd Center had agreements with Live Nation for a music venue (potentially a House of Blues) and an upscale bowling alley to replace Nordstroms. They also had plans to move and expand the movie theater into a repurposed Sears building with the rest of the building being turned into office space. Just like you described. All went through city approval but there hasn't been any movement in 2019.

What I suspect is really going on is that everyone is getting cold feet sinking money into the mall. Once a mall goes down hill, you have a domino effect. I've never seen a mall get turned around once the domino effect starts without a complete redevelopment.

The wild card is Macy's. I suspect this store could be on their January closing list. If that's the case, more stores will close. At that point, the mall is done. It will cost fortune to demolish that place. It's really well built.
I wonder if Macy's is doing better there now that they closed the downtown location (which probably wasn't doing much business anyway). Also if Macy's owns or leases that building could make some kind of difference. That Macy's carries a ton of inventory. Macy's fulfills a lot of online orders directly from random store locations (some items I ordered last month came from a store in Pasadena, CA) so that function could also prove useful for this location.

Based on what I remember of the design of Lloyd Center, it would not be easy to "cut part of it off."
Super S
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2058
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 39 times
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: December 26th, 2019, 10:59 pm
I wonder if Macy's is doing better there now that they closed the downtown location (which probably wasn't doing much business anyway). Also if Macy's owns or leases that building could make some kind of difference. That Macy's carries a ton of inventory. Macy's fulfills a lot of online orders directly from random store locations (some items I ordered last month came from a store in Pasadena, CA) so that function could also prove useful for this location.

Based on what I remember of the design of Lloyd Center, it would not be easy to "cut part of it off."
The Macy's here over the last few years has struck me as a store that could go either way. On one hand, it is the only traditional department store left, which doesn't seem to fit well with current anchors and plans for the mall (referring to what has been said about the old Sears and Nordstrom spaces) It does seem like it is too large for modern times and needs to be downsized a bit.

On the other hand, Lloyd Center's centerpiece is the skating rink. (which was reconfigured a little during the most recent remodel) The owners may have cut a favorable deal to convince Macy's to stay so there isn't a huge empty anchor surrounding the rink. With the closing of the downtown store, that could also work in this store's favor.

As for the design of Lloyd Center, keep in mind that this was originally an outdoor mall and wasn't enclosed until the early 1990s. Most of the anchors are designed as standalone structures (which is the case with most mall anchors) and it should be feasible to demolish them unless something was tied in structurally to the parking garage.

Something that isn't brought up as much is the mall's location. While it is convenient for the local area, it is less appealing as a destination. Not simply because of the vacancies, but because of the fact that Portland has not invested in its freeway system well over the years and the traffic can be quite heavy in the area, and this mall is situated in a way that it can be hard to find. The malls such as Clackamas Town Center and Washington Square, and even Mall 205 and Jantzen Beach, are more visible and easier to find. Visibility alone does not guarantee a mall's success though, look at the Three Rivers Mall in Kelso, WA as an example of a mall with good visibility but poor management.

In any case Lloyd Center needs to start moving on redeveloping the vacant spaces. Nordstrom in particular has been vacant for way too long. When there are too many vacant anchors, the small stores aren't going to stick around long-term.
babs
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 364
Joined: December 20th, 2016, 3:08 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 45 times
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by babs »

Super S wrote: December 27th, 2019, 8:10 am
storewanderer wrote: December 26th, 2019, 10:59 pm
I wonder if Macy's is doing better there now that they closed the downtown location (which probably wasn't doing much business anyway). Also if Macy's owns or leases that building could make some kind of difference. That Macy's carries a ton of inventory. Macy's fulfills a lot of online orders directly from random store locations (some items I ordered last month came from a store in Pasadena, CA) so that function could also prove useful for this location.

Based on what I remember of the design of Lloyd Center, it would not be easy to "cut part of it off."
The Macy's here over the last few years has struck me as a store that could go either way. On one hand, it is the only traditional department store left, which doesn't seem to fit well with current anchors and plans for the mall (referring to what has been said about the old Sears and Nordstrom spaces) It does seem like it is too large for modern times and needs to be downsized a bit.

On the other hand, Lloyd Center's centerpiece is the skating rink. (which was reconfigured a little during the most recent remodel) The owners may have cut a favorable deal to convince Macy's to stay so there isn't a huge empty anchor surrounding the rink. With the closing of the downtown store, that could also work in this store's favor.

As for the design of Lloyd Center, keep in mind that this was originally an outdoor mall and wasn't enclosed until the early 1990s. Most of the anchors are designed as standalone structures (which is the case with most mall anchors) and it should be feasible to demolish them unless something was tied in structurally to the parking garage.

Something that isn't brought up as much is the mall's location. While it is convenient for the local area, it is less appealing as a destination. Not simply because of the vacancies, but because of the fact that Portland has not invested in its freeway system well over the years and the traffic can be quite heavy in the area, and this mall is situated in a way that it can be hard to find. The malls such as Clackamas Town Center and Washington Square, and even Mall 205 and Jantzen Beach, are more visible and easier to find. Visibility alone does not guarantee a mall's success though, look at the Three Rivers Mall in Kelso, WA as an example of a mall with good visibility but poor management.

In any case Lloyd Center needs to start moving on redeveloping the vacant spaces. Nordstrom in particular has been vacant for way too long. When there are too many vacant anchors, the small stores aren't going to stick around long-term.
It will probably never happen but it would be a great location for both Costco and Home Depot. They could do something along the lines of the Costco in downtown Vancouver BC. Parking garage under the store and topped off with three or four high right condo towers.

I know back in the 90's, Costco tried to locate a store in central Portland but ran into opposition and restrictive land use laws.
storewanderer
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 6956
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Been thanked: 179 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by storewanderer »

Let's wait for the economy to get a little rough and the Costco and Home Depot idea coupled with some housing may be well received.
Super S
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2058
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 39 times
Status: Offline

Re: Article questioning Lloyd Center's future

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: December 28th, 2019, 12:16 am Let's wait for the economy to get a little rough and the Costco and Home Depot idea coupled with some housing may be well received.
Or they could convince Target to open there. Portland is very welcoming of Target compared to other chains. They did open 2-story stores in former Montgomery Ward locations at Mall 205 and Jantzen Beach (before the present-day store was built) so it's not out of the question. Target did breathe some new life into The Commons at Federal Way.
Post Reply