Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by Super S »

I made a stop at Clackamas Town Center yesterday. This is one of the better malls in the Portland area, but this one is showing some signs that it is now struggling a little.

Sears is closed. Dick's Sporting Goods is open on the lower level only while the upper level is vacant. I find this interesting as they occupy both levels of a former Mervyn's at Washington Square, but perhaps with changing times they are moving toward smaller stores. The former Nordstrom remains vacant.

The food court is a wide open empty space now for the most part. Some vendors were open, some were closed, but ALL of the tables and chairs have been taken out and there is a huge empty space. The adjacent theater is also closed due to Covid.

The Macy's furniture store has added a backstage area there instead of in the main store. This seemed odd to me, and made me wonder if this was done to bring more traffic into the furniture store, although that type of customer is probably not looking for higher end furniture.

The JCPenney is open but seemed to have less staffing than in the past. The store itself wasn't very busy but it looked ok overall. All entrances were open.

The Barnes & Noble had one level's entrance blocked but was open.

I saw a mix of social distancing protocol with the interior shops. Some stores with two gates had only one open, some stores had an attendant at the entrance limiting the amount of customers, others seemed to be business as usual.

The lower level also had those pushy kiosk operators that still try to get in your face...I moved to the upper level to walk through the mall to avoid them.

There are a handful of open vacancies throughout the mall, many are concentrated on the corridors of the empty anchors.

I won't say that this mall is dead by any means. But I will say that foot traffic was very low compared to previous visits and it illustrates that no mall is immune to the struggles of recent times. Like most malls in recent years, this one has far less variety than it used to. In the past it had both Sears and Montgomery Ward and more variety in the interior shops.

I think this mall will survive, but could be in big trouble if it loses any more anchors.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by storewanderer »

Super S wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:12 am The Macy's furniture store has added a backstage area there instead of in the main store. This seemed odd to me, and made me wonder if this was done to bring more traffic into the furniture store, although that type of customer is probably not looking for higher end furniture.
The Medford, OR Macy's has two anchor spaces. This is a large mall with two floors, way too big for Medford, Anyway, back to Macys, one of their spaces there is the former Montgomery Ward (or maybe the former Mervyn's). Whatever it is, it has two floors. Initially Macy's was just occupying one of the two floors with home items and some furniture. Then they came up with the Backstage concept and they put it on the un-used floor of the home/furniture store. This is a quite nice, large Backstage space. What is interesting in that space is you cannot get from one floor to the other, they hid the escalators, so it presents like two completely separate stores (the Backstage floor and the home/furniture floor).

The other anchor space there is the former Meier and Frank.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by babs »

Super S wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:12 am I made a stop at Clackamas Town Center yesterday. This is one of the better malls in the Portland area, but this one is showing some signs that it is now struggling a little.

Sears is closed. Dick's Sporting Goods is open on the lower level only while the upper level is vacant. I find this interesting as they occupy both levels of a former Mervyn's at Washington Square, but perhaps with changing times they are moving toward smaller stores. The former Nordstrom remains vacant.

The food court is a wide open empty space now for the most part. Some vendors were open, some were closed, but ALL of the tables and chairs have been taken out and there is a huge empty space. The adjacent theater is also closed due to Covid.

The Macy's furniture store has added a backstage area there instead of in the main store. This seemed odd to me, and made me wonder if this was done to bring more traffic into the furniture store, although that type of customer is probably not looking for higher end furniture.

The JCPenney is open but seemed to have less staffing than in the past. The store itself wasn't very busy but it looked ok overall. All entrances were open.

The Barnes & Noble had one level's entrance blocked but was open.

I saw a mix of social distancing protocol with the interior shops. Some stores with two gates had only one open, some stores had an attendant at the entrance limiting the amount of customers, others seemed to be business as usual.

The lower level also had those pushy kiosk operators that still try to get in your face...I moved to the upper level to walk through the mall to avoid them.

There are a handful of open vacancies throughout the mall, many are concentrated on the corridors of the empty anchors.

I won't say that this mall is dead by any means. But I will say that foot traffic was very low compared to previous visits and it illustrates that no mall is immune to the struggles of recent times. Like most malls in recent years, this one has far less variety than it used to. In the past it had both Sears and Montgomery Ward and more variety in the interior shops.

I think this mall will survive, but could be in big trouble if it loses any more anchors.
Macy's has significantly cut back its home and kitchen selection in most of it's stores. That's why they are using space leftover for Backstage.

Regardless, putting Backstage in existing stores is about the dumbest idea.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by Alpha8472 »

I have noticed that malls are really empty these days in California. Even Walmart stores are eerily empty now. The crowds are gone and the parking lots are very empty. Is it an economic downturn? Or is it that more people are at home sick. I have friends who work at various retail stores and there are many people out sick and in quarantine. Staffing at some stores is so bad that they had to close stores for 5 days or more. It is really impacting malls and retail.


Mall hours are scaling back. Most malls close at 7 and only a small number open until 8 and only on Fridays and Saturdays.

Some say the outdoor dining ban is causing people to gather indoors at private homes. This is making illnesses spread even more.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by storewanderer »

Alpha8472 wrote: January 20th, 2021, 9:46 pm I have noticed that malls are really empty these days in California. Even Walmart stores are eerily empty now. The crowds are gone and the parking lots are very empty. Is it an economic downturn? Or is it that more people are at home sick. I have friends who work at various retail stores and there are many people out sick and in quarantine. Staffing at some stores is so bad that they had to close stores for 5 days or more. It is really impacting malls and retail.


Mall hours are scaling back. Most malls close at 7 and only a small number open until 8 and only on Fridays and Saturdays.

Some say the outdoor dining ban is causing people to gather indoors at private homes. This is making illnesses spread even more.
Malls seemed pretty empty in December (nothing like usual) and definitely seem even less busy now than they do in a typical (already slow) January. I really think more people are just shopping online. The retail stores have less and less inventory, as you point out limited hours as well. If I work all day until 6 or 6:30 PM then have dinner, if the retail store closes at 7, I simply can't go there on a weeknight anymore. The Wal Marts I go into are still quite busy, but it is a lot of grocery sales and the rest of the store seems quite empty. One Wal Mart I went into last week, later in the evening, but not so late the hardlines door was closed, I literally saw nobody on the drug/home/hardlines/toy side of the store after the door greeter; when I got toward the middle first I saw a couple employees in electronics then in the clothing area I saw a few employees and a few people passing by, then over at the food side there were 30-40 customers.

Typically retail stores have tried to do something to catch some of the stimulus check from customers. Recall in the 00's the stimulus a lot of stores ran promotions "cash your stimulus check here into a gift card to our store, and get a bonus gift card" or some such thing. I recall grocers and various retailers trying that promotion. Well the game is different now, first there are fewer paper checks as more people will get the stimulus through direct deposit. Secondly not to go into politics but it seems like it would be poor taste for retailers to try to go after people's stimulus checks when folks are unemployed, etc. and would be better off using that toward bills or to save in case they become unemployed sometime in the future.

Also have observed in the past few weeks gas in my area is up .15-.40 per gallon depending on the area, which may be hitting discretionary (retail mall) spending a bit.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by veteran+ »

Alpha8472 wrote: January 20th, 2021, 9:46 pm I have noticed that malls are really empty these days in California. Even Walmart stores are eerily empty now. The crowds are gone and the parking lots are very empty. Is it an economic downturn? Or is it that more people are at home sick. I have friends who work at various retail stores and there are many people out sick and in quarantine. Staffing at some stores is so bad that they had to close stores for 5 days or more. It is really impacting malls and retail.


Mall hours are scaling back. Most malls close at 7 and only a small number open until 8 and only on Fridays and Saturdays.

Some say the outdoor dining ban is causing people to gather indoors at private homes. This is making illnesses spread even more.
Beverly Center and The Grove were all "busy" BUT with masks and safe distancing (not normal busy of course).
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by Alpha8472 »

Are outdoor malls doing better in Southern California? The indoor malls are empty up here, but downtown outdoor malls are doing ok.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:33 pm
Super S wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:12 am The Macy's furniture store has added a backstage area there instead of in the main store. This seemed odd to me, and made me wonder if this was done to bring more traffic into the furniture store, although that type of customer is probably not looking for higher end furniture.
The Medford, OR Macy's has two anchor spaces. This is a large mall with two floors, way too big for Medford, Anyway, back to Macys, one of their spaces there is the former Montgomery Ward (or maybe the former Mervyn's). Whatever it is, it has two floors. Initially Macy's was just occupying one of the two floors with home items and some furniture. Then they came up with the Backstage concept and they put it on the un-used floor of the home/furniture store. This is a quite nice, large Backstage space. What is interesting in that space is you cannot get from one floor to the other, they hid the escalators, so it presents like two completely separate stores (the Backstage floor and the home/furniture floor).

The other anchor space there is the former Meier and Frank.
This is similar to the situation at Clackamas. The main store (on the south side) is the former Meier & Frank. The furniture store (on the north side) is the former Montgomery Ward. Initially Macy's operated on only the upper level, and Copeland's Sports was on the lower level. Copeland's ended up closing and Macy's also took over the lower level. Not sure if the escalator simply sat unused and was walled off during that period, but today they do have an escalator which is in the same area of the building as it was when Montgomery Ward was open.

I did not go inside Dick's, but can say from walking by the entrance that the suspended ceiling that was there when it was Sears has been removed and they have installed the warehouse style lights common in most Dick's stores in this area. I am not sure if the escalator is still in place or not.

But Clackamas, in addition to the upper empty level of the old Sears, does have a former Nordstrom still sitting empty which might take a while to fill.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by bryceleinan »

Super S wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 8:59 am
storewanderer wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:33 pm
Super S wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:12 am The Macy's furniture store has added a backstage area there instead of in the main store. This seemed odd to me, and made me wonder if this was done to bring more traffic into the furniture store, although that type of customer is probably not looking for higher end furniture.
The Medford, OR Macy's has two anchor spaces. This is a large mall with two floors, way too big for Medford, Anyway, back to Macys, one of their spaces there is the former Montgomery Ward (or maybe the former Mervyn's). Whatever it is, it has two floors. Initially Macy's was just occupying one of the two floors with home items and some furniture. Then they came up with the Backstage concept and they put it on the un-used floor of the home/furniture store. This is a quite nice, large Backstage space. What is interesting in that space is you cannot get from one floor to the other, they hid the escalators, so it presents like two completely separate stores (the Backstage floor and the home/furniture floor).

The other anchor space there is the former Meier and Frank.
This is similar to the situation at Clackamas. The main store (on the south side) is the former Meier & Frank. The furniture store (on the north side) is the former Montgomery Ward. Initially Macy's operated on only the upper level, and Copeland's Sports was on the lower level. Copeland's ended up closing and Macy's also took over the lower level. Not sure if the escalator simply sat unused and was walled off during that period, but today they do have an escalator which is in the same area of the building as it was when Montgomery Ward was open.

I did not go inside Dick's, but can say from walking by the entrance that the suspended ceiling that was there when it was Sears has been removed and they have installed the warehouse style lights common in most Dick's stores in this area. I am not sure if the escalator is still in place or not.

But Clackamas, in addition to the upper empty level of the old Sears, does have a former Nordstrom still sitting empty which might take a while to fill.
Rogue Valley Mall in Medford was pretty dead while I was there in October. I went to JCPenney because they still carry big & tall, and was not disappointed. Kohl’s is the former Mervyn’s store, and the Macy’s Home & Furniture / Dick’s is the old Montgomery Ward store (I actually think it opened as a Wards store during their early 90’s rebrand.) I remember this store being built when I was a kid (early 1990’s - 1991/2ish?) and was excited to see it was open the next time we went to Medford. We always stopped at RVM because they had Karmelkorn and TacoTime.
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Re: Dead/Dying Malls in Your Area and Predictions

Post by storewanderer »

bryceleinan wrote: February 6th, 2021, 12:06 am
Rogue Valley Mall in Medford was pretty dead while I was there in October. I went to JCPenney because they still carry big & tall, and was not disappointed. Kohl’s is the former Mervyn’s store, and the Macy’s Home & Furniture / Dick’s is the old Montgomery Ward store (I actually think it opened as a Wards store during their early 90’s rebrand.) I remember this store being built when I was a kid (early 1990’s - 1991/2ish?) and was excited to see it was open the next time we went to Medford. We always stopped at RVM because they had Karmelkorn and TacoTime.
The stores in Rogue Valley Mall are actually quite good; well stocked, neat, and with friendly employees all around. Traffic seems to be marginal at the best of times (daytime) and extremely low at off times (evening), and I am surprised with how well stocked the stores there have been on my visits to Medford. The numbers must work out given the stores seem to be well stocked and well cared for. I'm not sure where the teens in Medford hang out- but it isn't that mall. The JCP seemed very dated.

I was first in the Rogue Valley Mall in 1992 and back then it was much more active. Most of the tenant spaces on both levels were full and in the evening the mall was very busy, full of families. As you point out, it had more food options like Taco Time which is long gone (it was still there maybe 10 years ago). I recall dinner there one night in what was a packed crowded food court in 1992. I remember the Wards and being very impressed it was a modern store and actually in the mall (I was used to Wards in Reno which was on Oddie Blvd.- wasn't the nicest store; and also knew of the Sunrise Wards and Florin Wards down in Sacramento area which were near but not at the malls).
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