Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by storewanderer »

Fernandina Beach is still scheduled to be expanded. I highly doubt it will convert to a Kroger. Kroger is too downscale of a format for the area surrounding that store. It would not do well. A better Harris Teeter (with a full perimeter) is the right option. The current store is small and unremarkable, has high prices but is missing many nice features of larger Harris Teeters.

Kroger in Raleigh/Durham seems to have mostly recently remodeled stores. The stores feature the typical Kroger decor, dark cement floors, and are extremely downscale. They have almost a whole aisle for "Advertised Specials" (think Food 4 Less wall of values but on a regular aisle and placed onto normal shelves). The pricing in the stores is good, and selection is good. But the deli, bakery are so poor compared to Harris Teeter (yes, they are cheaper... but not much). Produce is actually okay and well priced in the Krogers.

When you walk into the two stores you feel you are at a completely different place. The Harris Teeters are bright, many light/white colors (looks clean, very clean, and polished), and a lot of nice looking displays and good foods available to eat ready to eat. The Krogers are dark, somewhat messy, and nothing looks particularly appealing other than the pricing and selection. If I was doing shopping for a week I'd go to Kroger due to price but for a quick fill in or for a ready to eat meal I would stay far from Kroger and be at Harris Teeter. I think these stores are reaching much different customers. Kroger is reaching the Wal Mart and Food Lion customer. Harris Teeter is reaching the Whole Foods customer. It is much different.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by arizonaguy »

storewanderer wrote:Fernandina Beach is still scheduled to be expanded. I highly doubt it will convert to a Kroger. Kroger is too downscale of a format for the area surrounding that store. It would not do well. A better Harris Teeter (with a full perimeter) is the right option. The current store is small and unremarkable, has high prices but is missing many nice features of larger Harris Teeters.

Kroger in Raleigh/Durham seems to have mostly recently remodeled stores. The stores feature the typical Kroger decor, dark cement floors, and are extremely downscale. They have almost a whole aisle for "Advertised Specials" (think Food 4 Less wall of values but on a regular aisle and placed onto normal shelves). The pricing in the stores is good, and selection is good. But the deli, bakery are so poor compared to Harris Teeter (yes, they are cheaper... but not much). Produce is actually okay and well priced in the Krogers.

When you walk into the two stores you feel you are at a completely different place. The Harris Teeters are bright, many light/white colors (looks clean, very clean, and polished), and a lot of nice looking displays and good foods available to eat ready to eat. The Krogers are dark, somewhat messy, and nothing looks particularly appealing other than the pricing and selection. If I was doing shopping for a week I'd go to Kroger due to price but for a quick fill in or for a ready to eat meal I would stay far from Kroger and be at Harris Teeter. I think these stores are reaching much different customers. Kroger is reaching the Wal Mart and Food Lion customer. Harris Teeter is reaching the Whole Foods customer. It is much different.
Different Kroger divisions do things differently. Heck, even different Kroger stores within the same division can offer vastly different experiences.

I was recently at this store in Columbus and it was the nicest standard Kroger store I've ever seen: https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb ... UQoioIczAK

Fry's in Arizona is very inconsistant. There are several stores which are small, dirty, and dumpy with lackluster perimeters and no extras (like a bank, Starbucks, or Boar's Head Deli program). These stores are set up to compete against Walmart, WinCo, and the Hispanic markets. Then there are several stores which are large, bright, and clean with great perimeters and extras such as Murry's cheese, Starbucks, expanded wine cellar, a large bulk foods area, expanded perimeter offerings, and large Natural and Organics departments. These stores are set up to compete against Sprouts and Whole Foods.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote:Fernandina Beach is still scheduled to be expanded. I highly doubt it will convert to a Kroger. Kroger is too downscale of a format for the area surrounding that store. It would not do well. A better Harris Teeter (with a full perimeter) is the right option. The current store is small and unremarkable, has high prices but is missing many nice features of larger Harris Teeters.

Kroger in Raleigh/Durham seems to have mostly recently remodeled stores. The stores feature the typical Kroger decor, dark cement floors, and are extremely downscale. They have almost a whole aisle for "Advertised Specials" (think Food 4 Less wall of values but on a regular aisle and placed onto normal shelves). The pricing in the stores is good, and selection is good. But the deli, bakery are so poor compared to Harris Teeter (yes, they are cheaper... but not much). Produce is actually okay and well priced in the Krogers.

When you walk into the two stores you feel you are at a completely different place. The Harris Teeters are bright, many light/white colors (looks clean, very clean, and polished), and a lot of nice looking displays and good foods available to eat ready to eat. The Krogers are dark, somewhat messy, and nothing looks particularly appealing other than the pricing and selection. If I was doing shopping for a week I'd go to Kroger due to price but for a quick fill in or for a ready to eat meal I would stay far from Kroger and be at Harris Teeter. I think these stores are reaching much different customers. Kroger is reaching the Wal Mart and Food Lion customer. Harris Teeter is reaching the Whole Foods customer. It is much different.
Much as I think that Kroger ruins stores when they convert them (Hiller's, Nashville Harris Teeter stores) as well as poor perimeter departments, I don't think Kroger is too "downscale" for the area, as in the Houston area Kroger stores are found even in the most expensive parts of town, and at least the one I've visited in the "Villages" of Houston featured a climate-controlled room for the more expensive wines.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by arizonaguy »

pseudo3d wrote:
storewanderer wrote:Fernandina Beach is still scheduled to be expanded. I highly doubt it will convert to a Kroger. Kroger is too downscale of a format for the area surrounding that store. It would not do well. A better Harris Teeter (with a full perimeter) is the right option. The current store is small and unremarkable, has high prices but is missing many nice features of larger Harris Teeters.

Kroger in Raleigh/Durham seems to have mostly recently remodeled stores. The stores feature the typical Kroger decor, dark cement floors, and are extremely downscale. They have almost a whole aisle for "Advertised Specials" (think Food 4 Less wall of values but on a regular aisle and placed onto normal shelves). The pricing in the stores is good, and selection is good. But the deli, bakery are so poor compared to Harris Teeter (yes, they are cheaper... but not much). Produce is actually okay and well priced in the Krogers.

When you walk into the two stores you feel you are at a completely different place. The Harris Teeters are bright, many light/white colors (looks clean, very clean, and polished), and a lot of nice looking displays and good foods available to eat ready to eat. The Krogers are dark, somewhat messy, and nothing looks particularly appealing other than the pricing and selection. If I was doing shopping for a week I'd go to Kroger due to price but for a quick fill in or for a ready to eat meal I would stay far from Kroger and be at Harris Teeter. I think these stores are reaching much different customers. Kroger is reaching the Wal Mart and Food Lion customer. Harris Teeter is reaching the Whole Foods customer. It is much different.
Much as I think that Kroger ruins stores when they convert them (Hiller's, Nashville Harris Teeter stores) as well as poor perimeter departments, I don't think Kroger is too "downscale" for the area, as in the Houston area Kroger stores are found even in the most expensive parts of town, and at least the one I've visited in the "Villages" of Houston featured a climate-controlled room for the more expensive wines.
Hiller's was sold as it was a family business and the family didn't want to run it anymore. Kroger wasn't about to keep a 6 store division within a division in Michigan. Michigan is also a market where Kroger has had a long history and consumers are familiar with the Kroger experience as Kroger has a very sizeable market share. If Kroger didn't buy Hiller's, someone else would have bought it and likely destroyed it and/or the stores would simply have closed.

As far as Harris Teeter in Nashville, it's kind of the same deal as Hiller's. There wasn't a sizeable enough presence to maintain a separate format. Especially as Harris Teeter had a grand total of 4 stores in the Nashville market compared to Kroger's significant presence. It just didn't make sense to run a separate format from a separate division for 4 stores.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by pseudo3d »

arizonaguy wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:
storewanderer wrote:Fernandina Beach is still scheduled to be expanded. I highly doubt it will convert to a Kroger. Kroger is too downscale of a format for the area surrounding that store. It would not do well. A better Harris Teeter (with a full perimeter) is the right option. The current store is small and unremarkable, has high prices but is missing many nice features of larger Harris Teeters.

Kroger in Raleigh/Durham seems to have mostly recently remodeled stores. The stores feature the typical Kroger decor, dark cement floors, and are extremely downscale. They have almost a whole aisle for "Advertised Specials" (think Food 4 Less wall of values but on a regular aisle and placed onto normal shelves). The pricing in the stores is good, and selection is good. But the deli, bakery are so poor compared to Harris Teeter (yes, they are cheaper... but not much). Produce is actually okay and well priced in the Krogers.

When you walk into the two stores you feel you are at a completely different place. The Harris Teeters are bright, many light/white colors (looks clean, very clean, and polished), and a lot of nice looking displays and good foods available to eat ready to eat. The Krogers are dark, somewhat messy, and nothing looks particularly appealing other than the pricing and selection. If I was doing shopping for a week I'd go to Kroger due to price but for a quick fill in or for a ready to eat meal I would stay far from Kroger and be at Harris Teeter. I think these stores are reaching much different customers. Kroger is reaching the Wal Mart and Food Lion customer. Harris Teeter is reaching the Whole Foods customer. It is much different.
Much as I think that Kroger ruins stores when they convert them (Hiller's, Nashville Harris Teeter stores) as well as poor perimeter departments, I don't think Kroger is too "downscale" for the area, as in the Houston area Kroger stores are found even in the most expensive parts of town, and at least the one I've visited in the "Villages" of Houston featured a climate-controlled room for the more expensive wines.
Hiller's was sold as it was a family business and the family didn't want to run it anymore. Kroger wasn't about to keep a 6 store division within a division in Michigan. Michigan is also a market where Kroger has had a long history and consumers are familiar with the Kroger experience as Kroger has a very sizeable market share. If Kroger didn't buy Hiller's, someone else would have bought it and likely destroyed it and/or the stores would simply have closed.

As far as Harris Teeter in Nashville, it's kind of the same deal as Hiller's. There wasn't a sizeable enough presence to maintain a separate format. Especially as Harris Teeter had a grand total of 4 stores in the Nashville market compared to Kroger's significant presence. It just didn't make sense to run a separate format from a separate division for 4 stores.
Separate division or not, for most of those stores, it was a downgrade in many categories. One of the new Hiller's lost their beer and wine bar, even though other Kroger stores had it. Things like this make me doubt how much localization Kroger really has (at least compared to Albertsons, which isn't much either).

On the other hand, I still do stand by the fact that Kroger can adapt to any neighborhood rich and poor alike, one of the strengths of the chain, which is why I don't think Fernandina Beach is "too good" for a Kroger.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by arizonaguy »

Kroger has significantly more localization than Albertsons.

Albertsons seems to base its product mix almost entirely upon the region or district. Every store in a given region or district has a similar product mix.

With Kroger, the product mix at adjacant stores can vary significantly. It seems that Kroger bases its product mix and offerings at an individual store level.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by pseudo3d »

arizonaguy wrote:Kroger has significantly more localization than Albertsons.

Albertsons seems to base its product mix almost entirely upon the region or district. Every store in a given region or district has a similar product mix.

With Kroger, the product mix at adjacant stores can vary significantly. It seems that Kroger bases its product mix and offerings at an individual store level.
My point is that at the conversions Kroger has done (that I know of), there were a number of products they simply didn't carry anymore...like it said, it "makes me doubt", not "it doesn't exist".
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by storewanderer »

I still fail to understand what the point would be of converting the store in Fernandina Beach to Kroger. The store is part of a marketing area that has a couple other Harris Teeter locations north up the coast. The nearest Kroger is up in Waycross, GA about an hour and a half away by 2 lane roads and I am going to tell you comparing Fernandina Beach and Waycross are two very different places (beach town with a lot of high cost real estate vs. a rural Georiga town...). The store itself is somewhat isolated (not really in a high traffic location, near a lot of high cost homes/resorts) from the main shopping areas around there. It is not really a visible location.

I think some Kroger divisions do the localization better than others. Based on my experiences the past week and a half at Kroger-Atlanta Division and Kroger-Mid Atlantic I really think the stores with names other than Kroger, for the most part, seem to be a little bit nicer operations...

Kroger did to Hiller's what Albertsons just did to "Paul's." The bottom line is if these changes fail, the customers will shop elsewhere and stores will ultimately close. The customers are the boss and they always vote with their feet.

Also regarding your comment about the Nashville Harris Teeter being in the wrong location, that is correct. The stores were poorly located. And I would venture the store, despite some negative Yelp reviews from Yelp reviewers with limited review history, is doing double the volume now that it did as a Harris Teeter (which wasn't much). Also I don't know what the cookie display replaced with cigarettes comment is. Harris Teeter doesn't have any "cookie displays" in its bakeries. The only cookies they sell are all prepackaged (either in bakery or in the aisles).
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: Kroger did to Hiller's what Albertsons just did to "Paul's." The bottom line is if these changes fail, the customers will shop elsewhere and stores will ultimately close. The customers are the boss and they always vote with their feet.
With all due respect, I think there is a bit of a difference. I believe Kroger closed the stores for a longer time to redecorate, and I don't think they kept any of the Hiller's programs (wide beer selection, the bar in the new store) while Albertsons at least kept a few of the programs as a test run (the donuts, and I've heard McCall's clothing dept.)

Both had owners who were sell-outs, though.
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Re: Harris Teeter/Kroger integration

Post by architect »

pseudo3d wrote:
storewanderer wrote: Kroger did to Hiller's what Albertsons just did to "Paul's." The bottom line is if these changes fail, the customers will shop elsewhere and stores will ultimately close. The customers are the boss and they always vote with their feet.
With all due respect, I think there is a bit of a difference. I believe Kroger closed the stores for a longer time to redecorate, and I don't think they kept any of the Hiller's programs (wide beer selection, the bar in the new store) while Albertsons at least kept a few of the programs as a test run (the donuts, and I've heard McCall's clothing dept.)

Both had owners who were sell-outs, though.
Honestly, this difference in approach demonstrates the competency in management between Kroger and Albertsons. Since Hiller's was a chain of only 6 stores, there is no economically feasible way to retain these stores as a separate division and manage separate marketing/merchandising efforts for these locations alone. Although Kroger can (and often does) take ideas from chains they acquire, some specialized programs can either be too complex to manage (such as the Hiller's bar concept) or require an order of certain products in extremely low volumes (which is usually cost-prohibitive). On the other hand, Albertsons attempts to manage (but not import) exclusive programs from Paul's will stretch the company's resources and ultimately just delay the process of integrating these stores in the Albertsons fold.
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