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Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: November 18th, 2021, 4:15 pm
by BatteryMill
mjhale wrote: November 18th, 2021, 3:57 pm
BatteryMill wrote: November 18th, 2021, 11:05 am So there are plans to close the Safeway in Rockville? Strange considering Wegmans is not opening up shop for a little while longer, usually they'd leave it open and try the best they can for a while.
http://www.rockvillenights.com/2021/06/ ... gmans.html

Assuming of course that the blog post above has good sources.
Yes, poor planning by placing it on a frontage road. Only time will tell as to the true route of the Safeway, it is quite a nice store. Should they have stayed back elsewhere, too?

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: November 20th, 2021, 12:06 am
by mjhale
BatteryMill wrote: November 18th, 2021, 4:15 pm
mjhale wrote: November 18th, 2021, 3:57 pm
BatteryMill wrote: November 18th, 2021, 11:05 am So there are plans to close the Safeway in Rockville? Strange considering Wegmans is not opening up shop for a little while longer, usually they'd leave it open and try the best they can for a while.
http://www.rockvillenights.com/2021/06/ ... gmans.html

Assuming of course that the blog post above has good sources.
Yes, poor planning by placing it on a frontage road. Only time will tell as to the true route of the Safeway, it is quite a nice store. Should they have stayed back elsewhere, too?
My guess is that Safeway thought that being further north and on the west side of the railroad tracks would get them a higher level demographic. Also the location where they are now is right by the Twinbrook Metro station and was billed as part of the whole transit oriented development trend that is popular. The two stores that closed were both closer to residential areas and further away from the Giant at Montrose Crossing and the other stores that have been mentioned along Rockville Pike. However the residential areas weren't the typical higher end neighborhoods that Safeway was probably trying to go for when planning this store. I'm not sure how long the Wegmans on Rockville Pike has been under development. But if Safeway moved their store knowing Wegmans was coming that makes me wonder why Safeway would jump in the first place. I'm not saying that Wegmans should be in the only grocer in that small area. However if I'm not a mega grocer like Wegmans I'm not going to open a store next to them and expect not to have my sales impacted.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: November 20th, 2021, 6:22 am
by buckguy
The frontage road is part of a long-term plan to redevelop the Pike as some sort of Boulevard. Why the Wegman plaza didn't have to do this, I don't know. In the bigger scheme of things, it's probably the least of their problems there. The building is designed in such a way that it's difficult to know where the parking is located. This was a problem at the Pike & Rose development further South and hurt some of the early tenants (like the La Madelline restaurant that had been popular with older folks) who opened before the anchor tenants and when the whole place seemed under construction.

You're probably right that they wanted to get a higher income demographic, esp. given the way the store is merchandised. Even so, the Pike also was a long-term gap area for them---I worked nearby in the 90s and don't recall any Safeway on or just off Rockville Pike even then. Back then, Giant had two stores---the huge Montrose store and a neglected one at Congressional Plaza that seemed to be running out its lease and keeping out competition (it's a Container Store now), plus another on the other side of Rockville's old downtown. The A&P turned Magruders (and later Whole Foods, then Fresh Market) might have been less of an impediment.

They didn't entirely abandon people on the other side of the tracks. There's a store on Norbeck Road that is probably just over a mile from the old Twinbrook store that looks like its had some investment over time. I never visited the Loehmann's Plaza store but used to go to the deli in that plaza---the intersection and the shopping center entry was very awkward and the store was much smaller than the nearby Montrose Giant, which once was the biggest store in the chain. I'd guess that the Loehmann's store survived because the other competition in the area (all in awkward locations!) died off--a Shoppers in strip center in back of long dead White Flint Mall and an A&P that's become succession of Kosher markets. The trading area for the former Loehmann's Safeway probably overlapped with the one for downtown Kensington--an old marina that was remodeled and enlarged a number of years ago. Kensington is a little more upscale but has a lot of older people who bought before the little postwar houses started to become teardowns.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 19th, 2021, 5:50 pm
by BatteryMill
https://www.foodtradenews.com/2021/11/1 ... b-w-units/

An incredible article from Jeff Metzger, detailing the latest aforementioned transaction, but most importantly covering the history of Shoppers. A refreshing account on how Shoppers rose to prominence and how it was able to maintain its stride heading into SuperValu ownership, and the succeeding failures of SFW's corporate parent that the D.C. grocery chain bore the brunt of, heading into their stagnant state today. One correction, however that I would like to point out is that as of 2021 Shoppers is to indefinitely remain open, versus the 18 month deadline published the year prior.

The Crofton store is shuttering this week, taking the total down to 20 as cited.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 20th, 2021, 6:01 am
by buckguy
BatteryMill wrote: December 19th, 2021, 5:50 pm https://www.foodtradenews.com/2021/11/1 ... b-w-units/

An incredible article from Jeff Metzger, detailing the latest aforementioned transaction, but most importantly covering the history of Shoppers. A refreshing account on how Shoppers rose to prominence and how it was able to maintain its stride heading into SuperValu ownership, and the succeeding failures of SFW's corporate parent that the D.C. grocery chain bore the brunt of, heading into their stagnant state today. One correction, however that I would like to point out is that as of 2021 Shoppers is to indefinitely remain open, versus the 18 month deadline published the year prior.

The Crofton store is shuttering this week, taking the total down to 20 as cited.
A very entertaining article--they should have explained why Haft was known as Herr Hair. Haft, a rather short man, sported a huge meringue of white hair that made him something of a local landmark. I used to see him in a limo with his much younger girlfriend driving around DC, while fighting his wife and son in court. That's why the Dart Group was ultimately sold. One detail seems off---Cub might have been doing ok in 2006, but it was a after a long decline during which they had exited numerous markets during the 90s and 00s.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 20th, 2021, 11:12 am
by BatteryMill
buckguy wrote: December 20th, 2021, 6:01 am
BatteryMill wrote: December 19th, 2021, 5:50 pm https://www.foodtradenews.com/2021/11/1 ... b-w-units/

An incredible article from Jeff Metzger, detailing the latest aforementioned transaction, but most importantly covering the history of Shoppers. A refreshing account on how Shoppers rose to prominence and how it was able to maintain its stride heading into SuperValu ownership, and the succeeding failures of SFW's corporate parent that the D.C. grocery chain bore the brunt of, heading into their stagnant state today. One correction, however that I would like to point out is that as of 2021 Shoppers is to indefinitely remain open, versus the 18 month deadline published the year prior.

The Crofton store is shuttering this week, taking the total down to 20 as cited.
A very entertaining article--they should have explained why Haft was known as Herr Hair. Haft, a rather short man, sported a huge meringue of white hair that made him something of a local landmark. I used to see him in a limo with his much younger girlfriend driving around DC, while fighting his wife and son in court. That's why the Dart Group was ultimately sold. One detail seems off---Cub might have been doing ok in 2006, but it was a after a long decline during which they had exited numerous markets during the 90s and 00s.
Sure was, the Hafts were certainly a hilarious part of retail history. Linking back to the Hy-Vee thread, it's strange to see two grocery leaders aren't doing so well in the Twin Cities, although Cub still has the upper hand.

Shoppers was also in decent order at the time, but this point is where new store openings fell off a cliff, with several potential locations shelved as well. The chain would peak at 65 stores in 2008, and this is where closings became the norm for SFW.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 20th, 2021, 7:23 pm
by storewanderer
BatteryMill wrote: December 20th, 2021, 11:12 am

Sure was, the Hafts were certainly a hilarious part of retail history. Linking back to the Hy-Vee thread, it's strange to see two grocery leaders aren't doing so well in the Twin Cities, although Cub still has the upper hand.

Shoppers was also in decent order at the time, but this point is where new store openings fell off a cliff, with several potential locations shelved as well. The chain would peak at 65 stores in 2008, and this is where closings became the norm for SFW.
Go to MSP and walk some Hy Vee locations and they are packed with customers. You will probably count 100 employees working before you even get out of the food service/deli/produce/meat/bakery areas. "Not doing well" ... is quite an interesting assessment.

Cub on the other hand, if near a Hy Vee, they are quite empty of customers and employees. The only busy Cub units are the ones not near a Hy Vee. I am wondering if Hy Vee expected Supervalu to shut Cub down or sell it to Albertsons and figured at that point some price pressure would be off the table. If Kroger bought Cub, their pricing would get even better than it already is. But I don't think Hy Vee likes competing much with Kroger which makes the move into the South even more interesting. I really think the issue with Hy Vee in MSP is pricing and having to price too low.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 21st, 2021, 2:22 pm
by TW-Upstate NY
Spent some time in Va. back in SFW's heyday and found them to be sort of an enigma. While their name could imply deep discount, I really didn't see that. Their pricing wasn't especially high but nothing they offered would really bring someone in vs. another chain. Honestly, what did/do they stand for?

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 21st, 2021, 3:13 pm
by BatteryMill
TW-Upstate NY wrote: December 21st, 2021, 2:22 pm Spent some time in Va. back in SFW's heyday and found them to be sort of an enigma. While their name could imply deep discount, I really didn't see that. Their pricing wasn't especially high but nothing they offered would really bring someone in vs. another chain. Honestly, what did/do they stand for?
Some of their prepared foods selections were noteworthy in the day; especially their colossal donuts, which are still available at present. SFW was open to many different neighborhoods, and chances are pricepoints might have been better at other locations. Shoppers also tried a concept (Shoppers Club) which uniquely stocked bulk-size products and included natural/organic products, which was a rarity at the time. All these were at least the fruits of their initial success.

Re: Crucial times for Shoppers

Posted: December 21st, 2021, 3:57 pm
by buckguy
They lived up to the name in the 90s. The stores were a hodgepodge of castoffs with a few purpose built stores. They had two stores almost across the street from each other in Langley Park in shabby looking castoffs---one looked like a pylon Safeway. Many were in lower income suburban areas, with a few in more middle class areas. The assortment was somewhat limited---family sized packaging dominated to draw in young families, which seemed to be their target demographic. The produce was horrible, but they had surprising items---a woman in my office who was obsessed with calories and fat could find her low fat cheese there.

People used to bring the donuts into work pre-COVID and I thought they were terrible. Except for upscale places like Astro, the DC area has lacked good donuts since the demise of Montgomery Donuts.