New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

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Alpha8472
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New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by Alpha8472 »

The single use bag ban and polystyrene food container ban applies to restaurants, convenience stores, food trucks, movie theaters and grocery stores that are 2,500 square feet or larger. Grocery stores will be prohibited from providing paper bags.

https://www.nj.com/news/2020/09/plastic ... urphy.html

What will this do? This will just make the plastic industry start selling superthick plastic bags and the paper bag industry will lose all of their sales in the state. Even thicker plastic bags will litter the streets and end up in landfills. Reusable canvas bags are not seen as very hygienic at this time.

TW-Upstate NY
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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

Alpha8472 wrote: September 25th, 2020, 9:10 pm Grocery stores will be prohibited from providing paper bags.
What will this do?
Here's what it might do-cause a lot (more) NJ residents to do their shopping in neighboring states. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see some store closures in NJ as a direct result of this. Wonder if any more states will follow NJ's lead though. Oh, and as an aside, here in NYS it was just announced this past week they WILL start enforcing the plastic bag ban on October 19th.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by BillyGr »

TW-Upstate NY wrote: September 26th, 2020, 9:41 am
Alpha8472 wrote: September 25th, 2020, 9:10 pm Grocery stores will be prohibited from providing paper bags.
What will this do?
Here's what it might do-cause a lot (more) NJ residents to do their shopping in neighboring states. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see some store closures in NJ as a direct result of this. Wonder if any more states will follow NJ's lead though. Oh, and as an aside, here in NYS it was just announced this past week they WILL start enforcing the plastic bag ban on October 19th.
Possible, but not likely. Only a few parts of the state would be close enough to other states to be convenient, and then even some of those have issues (people not likely to try to go into NYC for groceries at small stores, same for the areas around Philly, plus there you add the extra costs on drinks).

Not to mention that in (at least some parts of) NJ, people are used to going to the store that's within a few minutes from their home - even when they have several chains not much further away. So that makes it less likely they'd want to travel further to another state.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by storewanderer »

Until the next mystery new unknown pandemic, when then the reusable bags will be suddenly banned, and single use bags will suddenly be welcomed with open arms.

Hopefully the supply chain to make those single use bags will still be there...

Unlike the supply chains to make things like ventilators, gloves, hand sanitizer, masks, and other PPE that we needed for this pandemic...

Best option for folks in these places is to just shop online as much as possible and only buy limited fresh items in stores.

It will hurt sales at these stores and it is interesting that the retailer groups supported it. I think it is easier for the retailer groups to just flat out say no disposable bags, than have to put a fee on the bags which is often not charged.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by klkla »

People should use bags that are washable and reusable. That is the optimum solution.

Instead of these bans the state governments should tax them out of existence. IE: $1 for any plastic bag as well as paper bags. Then people will start conserving and make decisions that are good for the environment.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by storewanderer »

klkla wrote: September 26th, 2020, 12:55 pm People should use bags that are washable and reusable. That is the optimum solution.

Instead of these bans the state governments should tax them out of existence. IE: $1 for any plastic bag as well as paper bags. Then people will start conserving and make decisions that are good for the environment.
At this point with NJ, maybe it would be best for everyone to get boxes from the store (the boxes the store receives product in) to take their items out in. That puts the disposal of the box on the customer however. This turns the box into a multiple-use item. I don't think customers would like this as the boxes take up a lot of space. But customers should mostly know how to deal with box disposal based on frequent online shopping in recent years so this idea may be feasible.

The reusable bags have been found to be less environmentally friendly than the disposable ones based on the energy inputs to make them (maybe that environmental impact doesn't matter to the US environmentalists since the canvas and reusable bags are almost all made in China?) and energy inputs/soap use/chemical trail used to properly clean them (maybe that doesn't matter since most people don't wash the bags?). Also don't forget that reusable bag is eventually disposed of...

It is easy for single folks or folks who don't shop much or don't have families to impose these types of rules and say they are a good idea. But when you are dealing with a family of 6 people doing big shops every week where the exact quantity of goods purchased varies from week to week, these rules are not very practical. I'm sure Amazon is smiling.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

storewanderer wrote: September 26th, 2020, 9:22 pm At this point with NJ, maybe it would be best for everyone to get boxes from the store (the boxes the store receives product in) to take their items out in. That puts the disposal of the box on the customer however. This turns the box into a multiple-use item. I don't think customers would like this as the boxes take up a lot of space. But customers should mostly know how to deal with box disposal based on frequent online shopping in recent years so this idea may be feasible.
That's pretty much how Aldi handles it. As I'm shopping, I'm also grabbing near empty boxes to pack my groceries in. Sometimes, they have a "wiretainer" of empty boxes on the sales floor and people just help themselves. When I get home and unpack my items, I flatten the boxes and take them to the local transfer station on my weekly trash run. And this would also be a pretty good solution because previously stores wanted those boxes because they could sell bundles of bailed cardboard but nowadays they likely have to pay to have it carted away.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by storewanderer »

TW-Upstate NY wrote: September 27th, 2020, 9:50 am
That's pretty much how Aldi handles it. As I'm shopping, I'm also grabbing near empty boxes to pack my groceries in. Sometimes, they have a "wiretainer" of empty boxes on the sales floor and people just help themselves. When I get home and unpack my items, I flatten the boxes and take them to the local transfer station on my weekly trash run. And this would also be a pretty good solution because previously stores wanted those boxes because they could sell bundles of bailed cardboard but nowadays they likely have to pay to have it carted away.
I think this is probably the end game that needs to happen. Then the environmentalist groups will go after the boxes and note all the pitfalls of the boxes and their disposal.

I'd rather see a hard discussion about recycling. Figure out ways to recycle more stuff.

Out west as these bans went into place, Safeway/Albertsons was actually trying to sell people special store logo boxes with handles cut into the sides to carry groceries out in. I think they were $1.99 and ended up with space about the size of a 6-gallon milk crate. Those did not sell well at all, not sure what happened to all of them, but doubt they actually sold through them.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by klkla »

storewanderer wrote: September 26th, 2020, 9:22 pm At this point with NJ, maybe it would be best for everyone to get boxes from the store (the boxes the store receives product in) to take their items out in. That puts the disposal of the box on the customer however. This turns the box into a multiple-use item. I don't think customers would like this as the boxes take up a lot of space. But customers should mostly know how to deal with box disposal based on frequent online shopping in recent years so this idea may be feasible.
There is already a longstanding recycling program for boxes at supermarkets and there is no reason to replace the current program.
storewanderer wrote: September 26th, 2020, 9:22 pm The reusable bags have been found to be less environmentally friendly than the disposable ones based on the energy inputs to make them (maybe that environmental impact doesn't matter to the US environmentalists since the canvas and reusable bags are almost all made in China?) and energy inputs/soap use/chemical trail used to properly clean them (maybe that doesn't matter since most people don't wash the bags?). Also don't forget that reusable bag is eventually disposed of...
That is a strawman argument and invalid in this context. We wouldn't need nearly as many reusable bags and therefore the 'TOTAL energy inputs to create them' would be significantly less than plastic. The reusable bags are made from sustainable & renewable plants unlike plastic. The Southeastern U.S. is more than capable of producing enough cotton to manufacturer our own bags. The amount of non-compostable plastic bags being produced, distributed and discarded in this country is mind boggling and needs to be brought under control. The energy inputs/soap use/chemical trail of cleaning the bags would be substantially less damaging to the environment than the pollution and chemical trail caused by plastic. And, yes the bags are eventually discarded but they are biodegradable unlike plastic.
storewanderer wrote: September 26th, 2020, 9:22 pm It is easy for single folks or folks who don't shop much or don't have families to impose these types of rules and say they are a good idea. But when you are dealing with a family of 6 people doing big shops every week where the exact quantity of goods purchased varies from week to week, these rules are not very practical. I'm sure Amazon is smiling.
I don't buy this argument, either. A family of six could easily afford to by a dozen or so renewable bags every year. They're usually priced at around $1.99 so we're looking at $23.88 a year.

And don't get me started about Amazon. They create more than their share of pollution and we need to find ways to reduce their waste and carbon footprint as well.

People in the Western U.S. have seen the real life impact of climate change this year with the fires we have endured this summer. We all have to start taking responsibility for saving this planet while we still can.

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Re: New Jersey Ban On Paper Bags, Single Use Plastic Bags, & Plastic Food Containers

Post by Bagels »

I was "pressured" into buying canvas bags -- in 2008, a store I frequented had a 'donate $1 to charity, receive 2 complimentary canvas bags' promotion ... and I kept saying no thank you until the manager tossed in six bags. We quickly realized how much stuff each bag would hold, making it much easier to carry groceries into our-then apartment.
.
Each of those bags has been used over 500 times each. Admittedly, we don't always take our bags into stores and sometimes pay for the plastic bags... but I'd guess that those six canvas bags have stopped us from otherwise taking over 10,000 plastic bags. Previously, we'd double bag milk, soda and juices, use separate bags for meat, etc. Now we throw them into the wash with our rags.

Those six bags, BTW, are still going strong...

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