Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by simrox9 »

My local Ralphs was remodeled last year in Valencia, CA. and they switched out all the signage to Ralphs Fresh Fare.
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by BreakingThrough »

As others have covered here, I think Ralphs did a poor job early on in communicating to customers the difference between a "Fresh Fare" and a "regular" Ralphs, and that's part of why we are where we are today - very little difference between the two banners.

In ~2005, I moved to an area with both types of Ralphs stores, and I remember even then being confused as to what the difference was. And that's someone with an above-average interest in grocery stores (don't ask me why). "Fresh Fare" on its own does not signal upscale or premium to me – I mean, I think anyone would expect any supermarket to have at least some fresh food products for sale. Like any type of produce.

I don't think regular people ever noted a difference between the two types of stores. If anything, "Fresh fare" almost sounds like a tag line, e.g. "Ralphs. Fresh Fare!"
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by veteran+ »

Fresh Fare exists because if you remember, it was supposed to be a response to Whole Foods.

Likewise, Pavilions and the assorted "lifestyle" formats were supposed to address the Whole Foods thing.

As time has passed the "reason" these formats are still here are irrelevant. The differences (in most cases) between their upscale formats and their mainstream formats are minimal (imo).

I have managed both formats and the specialness of the upscale units began to diminish quickly (first came payroll changes).
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: November 1st, 2019, 8:32 am Fresh Fare exists because if you remember, it was supposed to be a response to Whole Foods.

Likewise, Pavilions and the assorted "lifestyle" formats were supposed to address the Whole Foods thing.

As time has passed the "reason" these formats are still here are irrelevant. The differences (in most cases) between their upscale formats and their mainstream formats are minimal (imo).

I have managed both formats and the specialness of the upscale units began to diminish quickly (first came payroll changes).
The thing I always thought was interesting with Ralphs Fresh Fare was it was always on smaller stores. But it did seem to me like they had better product in deli, produce, meat, and to a lesser extent bakery. Deli always had the hot carved beef/pork/etc. and at that time Boar's Head, which was less common in the regular Ralphs. Produce always had fresh cut in store fruit which again at that time was less common in the regular Ralphs. Meat appeared to have more of a variety of higher cost cuts which may have been a function more of the neighborhoods than the format.

They did a few nice remodels at Pavilions a couple years ago to bring those up again, how are those doing? I had zero confidence in their ability to re-upgrade that format until I saw those two newer Albertsons in Boise, which greatly increased my confidence in that company.
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by steps »

storewanderer wrote: November 1st, 2019, 9:04 am
veteran+ wrote: November 1st, 2019, 8:32 am Fresh Fare exists because if you remember, it was supposed to be a response to Whole Foods.

Likewise, Pavilions and the assorted "lifestyle" formats were supposed to address the Whole Foods thing.

As time has passed the "reason" these formats are still here are irrelevant. The differences (in most cases) between their upscale formats and their mainstream formats are minimal (imo).

I have managed both formats and the specialness of the upscale units began to diminish quickly (first came payroll changes).
The thing I always thought was interesting with Ralphs Fresh Fare was it was always on smaller stores. But it did seem to me like they had better product in deli, produce, meat, and to a lesser extent bakery. Deli always had the hot carved beef/pork/etc. and at that time Boar's Head, which was less common in the regular Ralphs. Produce always had fresh cut in store fruit which again at that time was less common in the regular Ralphs. Meat appeared to have more of a variety of higher cost cuts which may have been a function more of the neighborhoods than the format.

They did a few nice remodels at Pavilions a couple years ago to bring those up again, how are those doing? I had zero confidence in their ability to re-upgrade that format until I saw those two newer Albertsons in Boise, which greatly increased my confidence in that company.
I frequently go to a Fresh Fare and a Regular Ralph's. The main difference I see are:

Deli has very different offerings vs a regular Ralph's. For example, the Fresh Fare carries higher grade offerings (shrimp pasta, cooked marinated shrimp, cooked salmon). They also have the hot carved meats which seem to not be as popular as it was years sgo (mean is dry and looks to have been sitting all day under the heat lamp).

Bakery has more outside brands of goods and the in-store cakes I haven't seen offered at a regular Ralph's (tuxedo cakes, more custom decorated cakes, fruit tarts, etc).

Liquor is way more extensive. The Fresh Fare's have a walk in cooler with very expensive wines.

Other than that, those are the only differences I've noticed.
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by CalItalian »

steps wrote: November 1st, 2019, 6:06 pm
storewanderer wrote: November 1st, 2019, 9:04 am
veteran+ wrote: November 1st, 2019, 8:32 am Fresh Fare exists because if you remember, it was supposed to be a response to Whole Foods.

Likewise, Pavilions and the assorted "lifestyle" formats were supposed to address the Whole Foods thing.

As time has passed the "reason" these formats are still here are irrelevant. The differences (in most cases) between their upscale formats and their mainstream formats are minimal (imo).

I have managed both formats and the specialness of the upscale units began to diminish quickly (first came payroll changes).
The thing I always thought was interesting with Ralphs Fresh Fare was it was always on smaller stores. But it did seem to me like they had better product in deli, produce, meat, and to a lesser extent bakery. Deli always had the hot carved beef/pork/etc. and at that time Boar's Head, which was less common in the regular Ralphs. Produce always had fresh cut in store fruit which again at that time was less common in the regular Ralphs. Meat appeared to have more of a variety of higher cost cuts which may have been a function more of the neighborhoods than the format.

They did a few nice remodels at Pavilions a couple years ago to bring those up again, how are those doing? I had zero confidence in their ability to re-upgrade that format until I saw those two newer Albertsons in Boise, which greatly increased my confidence in that company.
I frequently go to a Fresh Fare and a Regular Ralph's. The main difference I see are:

Deli has very different offerings vs a regular Ralph's. For example, the Fresh Fare carries higher grade offerings (shrimp pasta, cooked marinated shrimp, cooked salmon). They also have the hot carved meats which seem to not be as popular as it was years sgo (mean is dry and looks to have been sitting all day under the heat lamp).

Bakery has more outside brands of goods and the in-store cakes I haven't seen offered at a regular Ralph's (tuxedo cakes, more custom decorated cakes, fruit tarts, etc).

Liquor is way more extensive. The Fresh Fare's have a walk in cooler with very expensive wines.

Other than that, those are the only differences I've noticed.
I don't know which Ralphs Fresh Fare you are shopping at but it's not one on the Westside of L.A..
Ralphs Fresh Fare in West L.A. (original location), Century City, Culver City and both in Marina del Rey DO NOT have a walk in cooler. They have very few expensive wines (the Marina del Rey former Alpha Beta has the best selection of those listed). That's just 4 store locations off hand. Westwood Village is the only Ralphs Fresh Fare on the Westside that has an extensive collection of expensive wines and walk in cooler but it is the largest of all Ralphs.

I suggest you try some regular Ralphs such as Temecula or Redondo Beach. They have upgraded their offerings at the service deli to the point they are virtually indistinguishable from a Ralphs Fresh Fare.

Ralphs bakery selection, Fresh Fare or not, is horrible. Again, try the two locations I mentioned if you want to see almost the same stock as you will see at a Fresh Fare location.

Liquor is not more extensive just because it is a Fresh Fare location. Century City, West L.A. have sad selections of liquor. Culver City is no more than any regular Ralphs. It has more to do with the size of the store not that it is a Fresh Fare.
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by CalItalian »

Bagels wrote: October 27th, 2019, 2:20 am
CalItalian wrote: October 25th, 2019, 9:41 am
Bagels wrote: October 24th, 2019, 7:28 pm It seems as if Kroger's moving away from the Fresh Fare branding. When a location near me was renovated a few years back, Kroger added the Fresh Fare concepts, and then some -- brick oven pizza cooker, high end wines and Murray's cheeses, the frozen prepared meals section, etc. -- but never added any "Fresh Fare" branding. And at another nearby location, the property owner re-skinned the entire strip mall (removing the legacy Western look, as seems commonplace today); when it was completed, Kroger opted to put a plain "Ralphs" sign up, disposing of the previous "Ralphs Fresh Fare." The interior is unchanged.

Kroger has gradually been transitioning Ralphs into a high-end middle market grocery store (and closing stores that don't fit that model). For example, all stores now sell Boar's Head products, a large selection of organic & cut produce, etc. -- things that were once sold at only Fresh Fares. Heck, 15 years ago "Private Selection" items were largely limited to Fresh Fares! And it was less than a decade ago when pricing varied from store to store, and Kroger ran multiple ad copies within the Greater LA area.

I've noticed that Ralphs are increasingly becoming localized in terms of premium items.... last Christmas, only a handful of stores -- regardless of their FF -- carried the Private Selection premium candies, for example... some stores carry fresh Cheesecake Factory slices, others don't.... some stores carry high-end meat & seafood like Halibut, others don't... I guess Kroger may feel the FF designation is obsoleted.
Ralphs has never actively pursued Fresh Fare branding and they are the originator of "Fresh Fare" (Wilshire at Bundy in 1998) which came along well before Kroger took them over.

Most Ralphs Fresh Fares never got a brick oven pizza cooker including their premier Fresh Fare location, Westwood. They've always carried high end wines but so do many "regular" Ralphs. Murray's is something Kroger stuck in Ralphs and not just Fresh Fare locations.

All stores have sold Boars Head products for a very long time. It's the depth of the line that differs from store to store. I've found larger "regular" Ralphs locations that carry more Boars Head than Fresh Fare locations (example Culver City Ralphs Fresh Fare vs. Temecula Ralphs)

Ralphs never had multiple ads that carried more than a few items that varied in pricing and that was mostly a few meat and produce items (unlike Vons' Pavilions). Prior, Fresh Fare locations only carried USDA Choice and USDA Prime meats but after that changed to all Ralphs locations, meat pricing, with a rare exception, became uniform (other than grand openings/reopenings and stores in heavy ethnic areas). As for produce, Ralphs locations that are in heavy ethnic areas, still have produce items advertised that are slightly different than most other Ralphs/Ralphs Fresh Fare locations (example Hawthorne Ralphs vs. Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare).

Private Selection was introduced as a store brand in all Ralphs locations. Again, it was the depth of the line that varied by store and at Fresh Fares. Ralphs has never mass marketed Fresh Fare locations as being higher end with exclusive products and ads unlike Vons did with Pavilions (and as Albertsons in the recent couple of years has reverted to doing).

I can go from one Ralphs to another - which is better accomplished through their app and is remarkably accurate - and see what one store carries over the other. I can't assign a Fresh Fare vs. regular Ralphs line in the sand for what one location will carry, premium or not, over another location. Other than décor and some higher end items, there is no clear difference between a regular Ralphs and Fresh Fare location. And that statement is more true now than ever before even though the difference was never really great.
For clarification, the stores I was discussing earlier are all Ralphs - the store near me whose shopping plaza was re-skinned previously had "Fresh Fare" signage but now has "Ralphs" signage (the interior is unchanged).

I do believe Kroger (Ralphs division) is walking aware from the Fresh Fare branding. I think that the differences were much stronger, especially 15-20 years ago, than you may remember. Grocery was similar, but the "fresh" departments had more premium, prepared & expanded offerings. I recall buying (marked down, of course) tons of vintage meal kits. Another time I bought a pair of giant, frozen "Private Selection" lobster tails for $10, previously marked at (a ridiculous) $59.99. They had sandwiches in the deli case (I got Ruben, Tri-Tip, etc.) that they'd heat upon request, and premium desserts that they'd finish making in front of you (like fruit tarts and creme brulee). Many of these products still exist in a new incarnation... they've just been expanded into "regular" Ralphs stores, as has a large selection of organic produce, exotic produce, etc.

Many of the changes that have occurred at Ralphs are reflective of Kroger as a chain. Just over a decade ago, most Kroger divisions operated their stores like a local supermarket. The Midwestern Kroger near my parents featured an ice cream line-up that was all local, a deli that sourced most of its products (meats & cheeses, prepared deli salads, etc.) locally, cut/prepared produce from a local produce terminal, etc. Today, it doesn't look much different from a Ralphs. Sure, both stores feature local favorites but I'd guess that the number of identical SKUs is in the high 90s.

One chain wide change Kroger has made in the past decade is that everyday pricing at stores within each division is near universal (with some exceptions due to heavy compeition; e.g. Aldi's is selling eggs for 79c/dozen through October, so the nearby Ralphs lowered its price to 99c/dozen). I can remember when, for example, a jar of peanut butter retailed for $2.99 at one store, $3.49 at another, and $3.99 at a location such as Laguna Beach. And Ralphs definitely ran multiple ads and still occasionally does -- last Christmas, for example, my local ad listed prepared meals like a Crown Roast dinner but when I went into the Lake Forest location, they had a slightly different ad listing the meal kits instead.
You can see a Ralphs ad for any particular store you wish to view on Ralphs.com. Compare them. You'll see they don't have ads that are different. Biggest difference is Fresh Fare stores get that heading on their ad, then there is the regular Ralphs ad and Ralphs in Hispanic areas get a few different mostly produce items. That is all. Fresh Fare will get a slightly different prepared meal for each holiday and maybe a different wine or champagne. That's as extensive as it gets other than what I previously mentioned. Ralphs recently stopped posting their ad previews each Monday on Facebook where they also posted ad variations for specific store locations. It was never much different.

Pavilions (and Vons) was the chain that had different unadvertised prices in each store location not Ralphs. Ralphs has been consistent for decades. Even pre-dating Kroger.

Until this summer, I lived close to the original Fresh Fare location - and went to its grand reopening 21 years ago this month - so I am well aware of how the Fresh Fare locations have evolved over the years.

Aldi unadvertised prices vary by location. I am aware of Aldi having eggs for .79 at one location over a month period (from a coupon group I participate in) but that wasn't throughout SoCal. I regularly buy eggs only at Aldi and they have varied from .59 to $1.19 over the last two months. Aldi had eggs one week at all locations last month for .59 (.49 in August). I haven't seen any Ralphs react to their pricing but I have seen a few Ralphs, even Malibu Fresh Fare, offer eggs as low as .49 cents over the last two months due to overstock.

1998 article on Ralphs Fresh Fare https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by veteran+ »

Agree with all the observations.

Ralphs Fresh Fare stores at best are inconsistent. I remember talking to store managers about this.

They tested this format early on. One example was the Ralphs in Palm Springs that is currently a SteinMart (Palm Canyon Drive). This store was on the smaller side with a beautiful entrance.

Walk in bodegas, sommeliers, live cheese shops and other luxuries were put in place erratically and not always specific to size of store or location. Also, inconsistent skill sets of store managers in those stores.

Pavillions was always a rise and fall AND rise and fall, etc. of the format. I did not have the pleasure of managing one of these when it was truly "separate" with its own payroll standards, prices, product mix, etc.. There were vociferous objections from customers during the different stages off homogenization with Vons. Employees were also LOUD about the changes.
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by Bagels »

CalItalian wrote: November 2nd, 2019, 12:21 amYou can see a Ralphs ad for any particular store you wish to view on Ralphs.com. Compare them. You'll see they don't have ads that are different. Biggest difference is Fresh Fare stores get that heading on their ad, then there is the regular Ralphs ad and Ralphs in Hispanic areas get a few different mostly produce items. That is all. Fresh Fare will get a slightly different prepared meal for each holiday and maybe a different wine or champagne. That's as extensive as it gets other than what I previously mentioned. Ralphs recently stopped posting their ad previews each Monday on Facebook where they also posted ad variations for specific store locations. It was never much different.

Pavilions (and Vons) was the chain that had different unadvertised prices in each store location not Ralphs. Ralphs has been consistent for decades. Even pre-dating Kroger.

Until this summer, I lived close to the original Fresh Fare location - and went to its grand reopening 21 years ago this month - so I am well aware of how the Fresh Fare locations have evolved over the years.

Aldi unadvertised prices vary by location. I am aware of Aldi having eggs for .79 at one location over a month period (from a coupon group I participate in) but that wasn't throughout SoCal. I regularly buy eggs only at Aldi and they have varied from .59 to $1.19 over the last two months. Aldi had eggs one week at all locations last month for .59 (.49 in August). I haven't seen any Ralphs react to their pricing but I have seen a few Ralphs, even Malibu Fresh Fare, offer eggs as low as .49 cents over the last two months due to overstock.

1998 article on Ralphs Fresh Fare https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
It probably wasn't clear in my posting, but I was referring to the past. In the 2000s, it was quite common for everyday pricing to vary among Kroger stores within the same geographic region, and this included Ralphs. I use to live within walking distance of a Ralphs, but drove to another because its pricing was less, and I was on a tight budget. The Ralphs within walking distance, for example, charged an insane $1.99/lb. for (non-organic) Red Delicious apples (excluding harvest season), compared to $1.49 at the Ralph's I drove to, and $3.99/lb. for chicken breasts vs. $2.99/lb.

And Kroger did publish multiple ad copies, generally with minor differences ($1.99 for ice cream vs. 2/$5 ... .99 for crackers instead of $1.49, etc.). At my first professional job, I worked with a client who produced the ads for the SoCal region; in the late 00s/early 10s (long after I left), Kroger consolidated its chain-wide ad production to a single office (in Kentucky, IIRC) and outsourced the printing. Around the same time, Kroger also ceased the practice of different pricing at different stores within the same geographic region. And prices in SoCal dropped circa 2010, when Walmart announced plans to open up 200 Neighborhood Markets / SuperCenters by 2020 (since abandoned, obviously). The LA Times reported a similar price drop a few years ago when Aldi entered the market.

While you're right that overstocks are partially responsible for price differential today, competition does as well. For example, the Lake Forest location on El Toro Road is within a few miles of an Aldi; when that Aldi featured several months-long specials on basics (eggs, milk, bananas, strawberries, chicken breast, and a few others), recently Ralphs issued an ad flyer featuring similar (but more pricey) items saying "AT THIS LOCATION ONLY." They did the same thing again when Sprouts opened across the street. Then again, I suspect this is a weaker location for Ralphs -- it opened in 2007, about the same time as the Great Park store in Irvine. That location recently received its second remodel, whereas the El Toro store remains one of the few in the late 1990s-era Ralphs decor package.

That said, we're both in agreement that there's really no difference today between the regular and FF concept, which is why I suspect Ralphs (Kroger) is walking away from FF branding. Localization is driven more by the area than the branding, which is how it should be.
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Re: Ralphs Fresh Fare Trademark

Post by CalItalian »

Bagels wrote: November 4th, 2019, 1:15 am
CalItalian wrote: November 2nd, 2019, 12:21 amYou can see a Ralphs ad for any particular store you wish to view on Ralphs.com. Compare them. You'll see they don't have ads that are different. Biggest difference is Fresh Fare stores get that heading on their ad, then there is the regular Ralphs ad and Ralphs in Hispanic areas get a few different mostly produce items. That is all. Fresh Fare will get a slightly different prepared meal for each holiday and maybe a different wine or champagne. That's as extensive as it gets other than what I previously mentioned. Ralphs recently stopped posting their ad previews each Monday on Facebook where they also posted ad variations for specific store locations. It was never much different.

Pavilions (and Vons) was the chain that had different unadvertised prices in each store location not Ralphs. Ralphs has been consistent for decades. Even pre-dating Kroger.

Until this summer, I lived close to the original Fresh Fare location - and went to its grand reopening 21 years ago this month - so I am well aware of how the Fresh Fare locations have evolved over the years.

Aldi unadvertised prices vary by location. I am aware of Aldi having eggs for .79 at one location over a month period (from a coupon group I participate in) but that wasn't throughout SoCal. I regularly buy eggs only at Aldi and they have varied from .59 to $1.19 over the last two months. Aldi had eggs one week at all locations last month for .59 (.49 in August). I haven't seen any Ralphs react to their pricing but I have seen a few Ralphs, even Malibu Fresh Fare, offer eggs as low as .49 cents over the last two months due to overstock.

1998 article on Ralphs Fresh Fare https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
It probably wasn't clear in my posting, but I was referring to the past. In the 2000s, it was quite common for everyday pricing to vary among Kroger stores within the same geographic region, and this included Ralphs. I use to live within walking distance of a Ralphs, but drove to another because its pricing was less, and I was on a tight budget. The Ralphs within walking distance, for example, charged an insane $1.99/lb. for (non-organic) Red Delicious apples (excluding harvest season), compared to $1.49 at the Ralph's I drove to, and $3.99/lb. for chicken breasts vs. $2.99/lb.

And Kroger did publish multiple ad copies, generally with minor differences ($1.99 for ice cream vs. 2/$5 ... .99 for crackers instead of $1.49, etc.). At my first professional job, I worked with a client who produced the ads for the SoCal region; in the late 00s/early 10s (long after I left), Kroger consolidated its chain-wide ad production to a single office (in Kentucky, IIRC) and outsourced the printing. Around the same time, Kroger also ceased the practice of different pricing at different stores within the same geographic region. And prices in SoCal dropped circa 2010, when Walmart announced plans to open up 200 Neighborhood Markets / SuperCenters by 2020 (since abandoned, obviously). The LA Times reported a similar price drop a few years ago when Aldi entered the market.

While you're right that overstocks are partially responsible for price differential today, competition does as well. For example, the Lake Forest location on El Toro Road is within a few miles of an Aldi; when that Aldi featured several months-long specials on basics (eggs, milk, bananas, strawberries, chicken breast, and a few others), recently Ralphs issued an ad flyer featuring similar (but more pricey) items saying "AT THIS LOCATION ONLY." They did the same thing again when Sprouts opened across the street. Then again, I suspect this is a weaker location for Ralphs -- it opened in 2007, about the same time as the Great Park store in Irvine. That location recently received its second remodel, whereas the El Toro store remains one of the few in the late 1990s-era Ralphs decor package.

That said, we're both in agreement that there's really no difference today between the regular and FF concept, which is why I suspect Ralphs (Kroger) is walking away from FF branding. Localization is driven more by the area than the branding, which is how it should be.
I was referring to the past and present. No, it was not quite common for Ralphs to have everyday pricing different. I have been shopping at Ralphs since the 1970's and have extensive knowledge of this as I was extreme couponing before the term was ever invented. The side of L.A. (West) that I was living in until this summer has been dominated by Ralphs for many years and I know it's history going back to the 1970's. I could go from one Ralphs to another, the prices were never different. Pavilions, Vons - they were a different story.

Ralphs has never published multiple ads beyond a few minor different ad specials in more recent years as I have stated. I stand behind that statement. This isn't new. At one time the ads were exclusively in the food section of the newspaper, then later both the newspaper (as an insert) and mailed to home before they dropped newspapers. I can go back to the time when Ralphs (and all other supermarkets) ads were in the Thursday then later Wednesday food sections when supermarkets in this region changed their weekly ad dates.

Fresh Fare locations still have a distinctive look - including their most recent remodels this year in Malibu & Santa Monica, for example - that regular Ralphs aren't getting (Ralphs was going to convert the former Hughes Market in Westdale (West LA) to a Fresh Fare but decided not to last year. Instead, it just got the upgraded current regular Ralphs look - along with tripling self checkout from 4 to 12). Westwood Village Fresh Fare is scheduled to get an updated look next year which doesn't surprise me since some of the space at their largest, highest volume store is underutilized.

Target is walking away from the specific names they tacked onto their larger and smaller concept stores. The Super Target in both Menifee and Murrieta each had remodels over the summer (Menifee completed its remodel 2 weeks ago). The Super was completely removed despite their adding a staffed service deli and service bakery. And Westwood Village has removed all signage and mentions except outside the store that refers to itself as CityTarget.
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