Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by buckguy »

Westfield has 3 malls in the DC area and has made significant investments in each one. Montgomery mall which is relatively upscale is undergoing a massive redevelopment replacing a Sears and adjacent parking space with new retail and housing. Annapolis Mall which is also pretty upscale just had a closed Lord & Taylor replaced by new retail. The mid-market Wheaton Plaza had a major renovation right after Westfield bought it in the 90s with a new anchor (Macy's), redevelopment of an old one (Montgomery Ward tuned into Target) and significant new space filled with national retailers. The mall lost a lot of the new retail by the mid-2000s, replaced by local shops and lost an anchor with the May-Federated merger. They eventually filled the old Hecht's (May chain) wing which died with Hecht's closure with Costco, DSW and Dick's, although it took quite a while to fill the space. The mall probably could have slid further under different management but is in pretty good shape even though the inline stores probably aren't big draws.
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by storewanderer »

SamSpade wrote: April 18th, 2022, 8:52 am

They'd dumped Vancouver (Clark County, Wash.) Mall a while ago, and it seems to be doing fine under current owners. I do think some of the renovations and changes at Southcenter helped keep it relevant in the longer-term, so I don't feel the same dislike of Westfield that some Americans do.
What is the vibe you get that says some Americans dislike Westfield?

I don't think it is a dislike as much as people here just fail to acknowledge what Westfield is/what their brand stands for (above average malls). Westfield seemed to want to be worshiped by the customers and that never happened in the US. The US consumer didn't give Westfield the time of day (even if they liked the malls, they never gave Westfield credit for the malls being good).

When the average customer walks into a Safeway and asks if Kroger owns it, or stops shopping at Vons and starts shopping at Albertsons with the exact same ad and products because they don't want to support Vons for some reason, how can the average customer possibly make a connection to a mall management company?
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by rwsandiego »

storewanderer wrote: April 18th, 2022, 6:31 pm
SamSpade wrote: April 18th, 2022, 8:52 am

They'd dumped Vancouver (Clark County, Wash.) Mall a while ago, and it seems to be doing fine under current owners. I do think some of the renovations and changes at Southcenter helped keep it relevant in the longer-term, so I don't feel the same dislike of Westfield that some Americans do.
What is the vibe you get that says some Americans dislike Westfield?

I don't think it is a dislike as much as people here just fail to acknowledge what Westfield is/what their brand stands for (above average malls). Westfield seemed to want to be worshiped by the customers and that never happened in the US. The US consumer didn't give Westfield the time of day (even if they liked the malls, they never gave Westfield credit for the malls being good).

When the average customer walks into a Safeway and asks if Kroger owns it, or stops shopping at Vons and starts shopping at Albertsons with the exact same ad and products because they don't want to support Vons for some reason, how can the average customer possibly make a connection to a mall management company?
I can speak to the "dislike" at two malls: Horton Plaza in San Diego and Old Orchard outside of Chicago. Horton Plaza's opening was a watershed moment for the revitalization of downtown San Diego. Slapping "Westfield Shoppingtown" on the top of a landmark drew scorn from the city. Old Orchard is a very well-known upscale mall and is located at the gateway to Chicago's tony North Shore suburbs (Wilmette, Winnetka, etc.). Residents felt the addition of "Shoppingtown" cheapened the mall and did not like the relegation of Old Orchard to second-billing. This was the mall equivalent of the "marriage" between Lucky and Albertsons.

In the US, we don't brand malls with the name of the developer as is done in other countries. Westfield didn't get it or didn't care (or both). Frankly, they pissed off their customers.
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by storewanderer »

rwsandiego wrote: April 18th, 2022, 8:07 pm
I can speak to the "dislike" at two malls: Horton Plaza in San Diego and Old Orchard outside of Chicago. Horton Plaza's opening was a watershed moment for the revitalization of downtown San Diego. Slapping "Westfield Shoppingtown" on the top of a landmark drew scorn from the city. Old Orchard is a very well-known upscale mall and is located at the gateway to Chicago's tony North Shore suburbs (Wilmette, Winnetka, etc.). Residents felt the addition of "Shoppingtown" cheapened the mall and did not like the relegation of Old Orchard to second-billing. This was the mall equivalent of the "marriage" between Lucky and Albertsons.

In the US, we don't brand malls with the name of the developer as is done in other countries. Westfield didn't get it or didn't care (or both). Frankly, they pissed off their customers.
And Horton Plaza is gone now so that was sure a black mark against them.

The "Shoppingtown" name was a very poor fit for the US too. That definitely did not help their case any. Often times when "town" follows a retail establishment name in the US, it seems to either be a backwoods sort of operation or a poor operation.

The first time I saw the Westfield name or the Shoppingtown branding, I was somewhat intrigued. I started to wonder what is special about this mall that makes it have this unique chain looking name. Do the people shopping there seem happier than other malls? Nope. Are these hosts or ambassadors going throughout the mall to build up the Westfield brand and make me feel good about being there? Nope. Does it have a fantastic arcade inside? Nope. Does it have a fantastic food court inside? Nope. Does it look better than some malls? Yes. Does it appear to have upscale/high end retailers present? Yes.

Maybe had Westfield actually made the malls with their name well rounded malls that had a consistently well rounded product offering (vs. clothing heavy malls) and marketed that at a Westfield mall- EVERY Westfield mall- you can still purchase household goods, visit a pet store, mail your packages, go to an arcade, etc. Sort of like there would be minimum branding standards for the mall store mix to have that name. But that would get messy because you can't force tenants to operate if they don't want to in your mall.
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by Romr123 »

Yeah, going back to the 90s in St. Louis they did the odd rebranding of the malls they bought which had perfectly serviceable names for 30-35 years at that point...no one gave a shi$. In those days, department stores changed names only gingerly (and used combo names---Shillito Rikes in Cincinnati, e.g.)
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by BreakingThrough »

storewanderer wrote: April 18th, 2022, 11:05 pm The "Shoppingtown" name was a very poor fit for the US too. That definitely did not help their case any. Often times when "town" follows a retail establishment name in the US, it seems to either be a backwoods sort of operation or a poor operation.

The first time I saw the Westfield name or the Shoppingtown branding, I was somewhat intrigued. I started to wonder what is special about this mall that makes it have this unique chain looking name. Do the people shopping there seem happier than other malls? Nope. Are these hosts or ambassadors going throughout the mall to build up the Westfield brand and make me feel good about being there? Nope. Does it have a fantastic arcade inside? Nope. Does it have a fantastic food court inside? Nope. Does it look better than some malls? Yes. Does it appear to have upscale/high end retailers present? Yes.
I grew up the son of a shopaholic so I spent a lot of my childhood inside malls. When Westfield acquired and renamed the mall closest to us, Plaza Camino Real in Carlsbad / Oceanside, CA, to "Westfield Shoppingtown Plaza Camino Real", I think I was about 11 or 12. Even at that age I found the "Shoppingtown" name cheesy and downmarket...almost provincial. They were smart to drop the name but I think it made a really low-end and immature first impression.

Now I'm in LA and people still call "Westfield Culver City" the Fox Hills Mall all these years later. Westfield was like "fetch" -- they were just never able to make it happen. :-)
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by pseudo3d »

There was another mall operator that branded their properties as "Colonial", so instead of Temple Mall (in Temple TX, not any sort of direct religious connotation) it became "Colonial Mall Temple" (since reverted back to Temple Mall). I'm not sure what other properties they had.
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by rwsandiego »

My brother reminded me that Westfield took over The Shops at North Bridge on North Michigan Avenue in Chicago and renamed the mall, you guessed it, "Westfield Shoppingtown North Bridge." After a hue and cry by the very upscale tenants,, the business association of the very upscale street, and The City of Chicago, "Shoppingtown" was dropped in advance of it being dropped from all of their malls.

They only owned it for a few years before selling to Macerich who promptly renamed it "The Shops at North Bridge." All was well and wonderful once again.
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by storewanderer »

rwsandiego wrote: April 19th, 2022, 6:50 pm My brother reminded me that Westfield took over The Shops at North Bridge on North Michigan Avenue in Chicago and renamed the mall, you guessed it, "Westfield Shoppingtown North Bridge." After a hue and cry by the very upscale tenants,, the business association of the very upscale street, and The City of Chicago, "Shoppingtown" was dropped in advance of it being dropped from all of their malls.

They only owned it for a few years before selling to Macerich who promptly renamed it "The Shops at North Bridge." All was well and wonderful once again.
Funny they sold an upscale center off like that. Pride I guess... offended nobody liked their "Shoppingtown" name. Almost like a precursor to what they are doing now saying they will exit the US entirely.
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Re: Westfield Says It Is Done With The U.S.

Post by babs »

Westfield took the branding exercise too far. But others do it too.. Simon's name is all over their malls and outlet centers. For a brand name to work, you need to enforce brand standards. As a shopper, I'm not clear what they are at Westfield or Simon.
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