H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
pseudo3d wrote: April 2nd, 2022, 8:19 am

Looking at WinCo's geographic spread, they tend to cluster in metropolitan areas, and the next viable "metropolitan area" to the south would be the Waco area, but H-E-B has had a total lock in it for decades, and even Albertsons never got more than one (three if you count Temple-Killeen) into the city at the height of its store count. They probably could do it, but their business model seems to be to put more than one in an area, but compounding this is that H-E-B is more easy to adapt its stores to the lower-end that WinCo goes for.

Could it be done? Probably. But right now, Oklahoma seems to be far easy pickings as far as WinCo expansion goes.
WinCo doesn't exactly cluster quickly in most cases, but over time they have clustered some metro areas. They are in a lot of small-ish markets specifically in Northern California, Idaho, and Oregon.

WinCo can easily open one store in a market. The way WinCo works- little to no advertising (no routine advertising at all), they deliver full truckloads of product to the stores when they do deliveries, their volume is so high when they negotiate with vendors that a vendor negotiating with a single WinCo is like negotiating with 2-3 conventional stores... they can easily support a single store in an area.

Keep in mind on the volume comment when you have WinCo doing $1 million a week in sales that is virtually all grocery. There is no pharmacy and limited drug in these stores. Perimeter bakery/deli doesn't strike me as overly high volume either. WinCo moves packaged grocery items/dairy/beverages in extreme sales volumes.
I'd be tempted to dismiss "small-ish markets" as when expanding, companies tend to keep smaller, legacy sites and ignore small markets when they're going out into new territory. Even H-E-B keeps to this standard, there are plenty of old, small stores even as far north as Marlin (which has an H-E-B that has barely seen any updates in decades, the facade doesn't even have the modern logo), yet they're only going in larger markets with 100k+ square foot stores.

And while H-E-B is the top dog in Waco, I don't think it's impermeable. Albertsons left in 2006 but the one store that closed wasn't exactly in a prime location and Winn-Dixie left in 2002 because of reasons largely unrelated to H-E-B's power in the area.

Meanwhile, Aldi is making good business, Brookshire has one of its farthest-reaching stores in one of the suburbs, and an IGA that has managed to outlast several key competitors in the area while keeping its late 1970s orange-and-red striped interior. All these stores call McLennan County home. I think WinCo can declare war on H-E-B and survive. The only other big chains south of Dallas are Kroger (which has sort-of given up on Houston, even if it has a massive market share) and Randalls (which even disregarding the parent company's struggles and severely neglected market has a poor reputation).
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by architect »

Another new H-E-B coming, this time in Allen at the northeast corner of Exchange and Greenville. Groundbreaking is next Wednesday, May 25th.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/re ... e-in-allen
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by biggins »

architect wrote: May 17th, 2022, 10:32 am Another new H-E-B coming, this time in Allen at the northeast corner of Exchange and Greenville. Groundbreaking is next Wednesday, May 25th.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/re ... e-in-allen
I've been waiting on this one for awhile. It will be the closest one to NE Dallas County where I live. If my city could get its act together, we could court H-E-B for the last bit of open land left along PGBT and draw a customer base of 300k within five miles easily.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by Greggo »

Still curious what the plans are for the old Albertsons in the Red Bird area. I’m guess Joe V’s or Mi Tienda. I think putting in a “regular” H‑E‑B in a spot that small would cause an uproar, with people shouting about the disparities (features vs lack of features) between the new stores and this store.

Another option: They could buy out the rest of the center, demolish it and expand the Albertsons building. H‑E‑B has done that with a couple stores here in Austin lately. One (183 and Braker) grew by around 40,000 square feet. It’s not done quite yet but the difference is dramatic.

A poster on Reddit claims construction has started. Can anyone in Dallas confirm?
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: March 28th, 2022, 10:13 pm
arizonaguy wrote: March 28th, 2022, 7:02 pm

Is WinCo still expanding in DFW? They came to Phoenix, caused the closure of a few marginal Albertsons / Safeway units and otherwise have become a complete non-factor here. I shop there because there because they have a store 1/2 mile from my house that has a well lit parking lot and is open at 10 - 11 pm (when every other store in my area is open). If it weren't for those factors I'd never shop there.
WinCo claimed to have 10 stores in DFW in 2018 and now has 14 stores so I guess they have opened 4 new stores (a quick search doesn't yield which stores would be the 4 newest stores).

Given that WinCo has opened a warehouse in TX, they need a certain number of stores to make the warehouse feasible, so it makes sense that they allocated more resources to TX to expand.

WinCo takes on little/no debt to expand so this is why their expansion happens in a rather slow but gradual manner. They expand when they can afford to open new stores.

I am not sure how WinCo supplies AZ (I was seeing dairy and bread that was being trucked from OR/WA when they first opened in AZ...). I think they only have a couple stores in Las Vegas too. And Reno is getting its 3rd WinCo shortly and they've been in this market for 22 years.

WinCo is a serious competitor that is able to move impressive volumes of product. I don't like their store atmosphere, customer service, food handling in places like service deli where employees reuse the same glove for customer after customer and touch the product, or private label program but I do really like their overall product mix, ability to keep items in stock consistently, and overall pricing. Also for what it is worth I haven't had any quality issues with fresh items I've purchased at WinCo for quite some time. I do see things that I would not buy due to appearance/condition but it seems if you know what you are doing you can find great fresh items at WinCo.

I would be curious if you were to stop shopping WinCo for a while if you would desire to go back again. And if so, what factors would cause you to desire to go back. My guess is there would be some products or prices, or the reliability on items being in stock, that would drive you back to WinCo if you were to stop going there for a while. That is what keeps happening to me.
I have noticed in San Diego area WinCo produce is now being trucked in from Texas. They must not have any warehouse at all in California/Nevada/Arizona, and they've decided that it is cheaper to bring it from Texas vs. drive from Oregon/Washington. Since this change was made there definitely has been a decline in the quality of WinCo produce; it was not great before but was serviceable. Now I see items like mushrooms that are Texas grown and they are all brown and rotting right out of the cases you watch their employees stocking. I didn't ask about this because it was unnecessary - there are literally Texas Grown stickers on many items which you just don't see at any other California supermarket. Seems bizarre that they wouldn't just hire a local produce company considering how much is grown and distributed in California.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 4:56 pm
I have noticed in San Diego area WinCo produce is now being trucked in from Texas. They must not have any warehouse at all in California/Nevada/Arizona, and they've decided that it is cheaper to bring it from Texas vs. drive from Oregon/Washington. Since this change was made there definitely has been a decline in the quality of WinCo produce; it was not great before but was serviceable. Now I see items like mushrooms that are Texas grown and they are all brown and rotting right out of the cases you watch their employees stocking. I didn't ask about this because it was unnecessary - there are literally Texas Grown stickers on many items which you just don't see at any other California supermarket. Seems bizarre that they wouldn't just hire a local produce company considering how much is grown and distributed in California.
Winco has a produce and meat distribution center in Modesto. I've never been a fan of their produce but usually if it looks okay, it is okay. Just okay. There have been some high points like the Hawaii Pineapples they got for quite a while in the height of the pandemic.

Also much of WinCo's meat comes from a processor in SoCal, at least what they are selling in Reno.

The dry grocery in Reno is supplied out of Idaho.

Much of the vegetables I see at the CA grocers is Product of Mexico anyway. I actually see more Product of USA stickers at Smiths (produce there is distributed from Utah) on vegetables than I do at the CA grocers. Fruits seem to be moreso from CA.

My guess is WinCo is running some logistics from TX to pick up certain produce in CA (probably all stuff from Mexico) and driving some TX stuff out to CA to supplement so the trucks are full in both directions. Seems like there could be other refrigerated product they could truck across a few states that is less perishable than produce.

I wouldn't put a Texas Grown sticker on anything in California.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: May 17th, 2022, 7:08 pm
ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 4:56 pm
I have noticed in San Diego area WinCo produce is now being trucked in from Texas. They must not have any warehouse at all in California/Nevada/Arizona, and they've decided that it is cheaper to bring it from Texas vs. drive from Oregon/Washington. Since this change was made there definitely has been a decline in the quality of WinCo produce; it was not great before but was serviceable. Now I see items like mushrooms that are Texas grown and they are all brown and rotting right out of the cases you watch their employees stocking. I didn't ask about this because it was unnecessary - there are literally Texas Grown stickers on many items which you just don't see at any other California supermarket. Seems bizarre that they wouldn't just hire a local produce company considering how much is grown and distributed in California.
Winco has a produce and meat distribution center in Modesto. I've never been a fan of their produce but usually if it looks okay, it is okay. Just okay. There have been some high points like the Hawaii Pineapples they got for quite a while in the height of the pandemic.

Also much of WinCo's meat comes from a processor in SoCal, at least what they are selling in Reno.

The dry grocery in Reno is supplied out of Idaho.

Much of the vegetables I see at the CA grocers is Product of Mexico anyway. I actually see more Product of USA stickers at Smiths (produce there is distributed from Utah) on vegetables than I do at the CA grocers. Fruits seem to be moreso from CA.

My guess is WinCo is running some logistics from TX to pick up certain produce in CA (probably all stuff from Mexico) and driving some TX stuff out to CA to supplement so the trucks are full in both directions. Seems like there could be other refrigerated product they could truck across a few states that is less perishable than produce.

I wouldn't put a Texas Grown sticker on anything in California.
Thanks for the insight as I really don't know anything about how WinCo distributes other than I saw one of their warehouses near the Woodburn outlet mall in Oregon.

I'm used to seeing half of the produce department in most stores showing Mexico country of origin, and the quality appears to be fine. Certainly better than the Texas produce at these WinCo stores. They definitely need to bring non-perishables here if they're going to continue trucking into CA. This Oceanside, CA store had Texas tomatoes as well - which is a slap in the face to the community which is famous for "Oceanside Pole" tomatoes from a large farm just a couple miles from the store. Ironically I've seen these same "Oceanside Pole" CA Grown tomatoes in Portland and Seattle.

The mushrooms were Monterey brand but had a big "Texas Grown" red ribbon emblem on the sticker. Once again there is a very large mushroom farm about 15 miles east of this store in Escondido, CA that supplies many grocery stores in SoCal, occasionally even Costco and packs for brands like Monterey as well as their own name (might just be Escondido Mushroom Farm).

Everything looked old, wilted, and like it had sat in a truck for days. I don't think they have much under development in San Diego right now and if this is going to be how they run their stores they will not succeed regardless of how cheap they are. San Diego County is one of the few places where you can drive less than 10 minutes from any urban area and be out in farm country, shopping the freshest possible produce that was picked hours ago at beautiful roadside stands. Not to mention shopping the farms themselves such as Carlsbad Strawberry Farm. There are also stores like Frazier Farms which is like a local version of Sprouts, and don't forget that their predecessor Henry's was from San Diego too.

It is like they picked the market which might possibly have access to the freshest, highest quality produce in the US to send their absolute worst product to... Real bonehead operation at WinCo down there.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 7:13 pm

Thanks for the insight as I really don't know anything about how WinCo distributes other than I saw one of their warehouses near the Woodburn outlet mall in Oregon.

I'm used to seeing half of the produce department in most stores showing Mexico country of origin, and the quality appears to be fine. Certainly better than the Texas produce at these WinCo stores. They definitely need to bring non-perishables here if they're going to continue trucking into CA. This Oceanside, CA store had Texas tomatoes as well - which is a slap in the face to the community which is famous for "Oceanside Pole" tomatoes from a large farm just a couple miles from the store. Ironically I've seen these same "Oceanside Pole" CA Grown tomatoes in Portland and Seattle.

The mushrooms were Monterey brand but had a big "Texas Grown" red ribbon emblem on the sticker. Once again there is a very large mushroom farm about 15 miles east of this store in Escondido, CA that supplies many grocery stores in SoCal, occasionally even Costco and packs for brands like Monterey as well as their own name (might just be Escondido Mushroom Farm).

Everything looked old, wilted, and like it had sat in a truck for days. I don't think they have much under development in San Diego right now and if this is going to be how they run their stores they will not succeed regardless of how cheap they are. San Diego County is one of the few places where you can drive less than 10 minutes from any urban area and be out in farm country, shopping the freshest possible produce that was picked hours ago at beautiful roadside stands. Not to mention shopping the farms themselves such as Carlsbad Strawberry Farm. There are also stores like Frazier Farms which is like a local version of Sprouts, and don't forget that their predecessor Henry's was from San Diego too.

It is like they picked the market which might possibly have access to the freshest, highest quality produce in the US to send their absolute worst product to... Real bonehead operation at WinCo down there.
I think Woodburn is a giant dairy/frozen facility but it may handle some dry goods too. They also have a comparatively very small non food distribution center that looks the size of a WinCo Store, but is a distribution center, somewhere south of Woodburn.

I will take a look here in Reno but I wonder if there is a temporary issue where they did a short term shipment of product from Texas to California.

I've never seen a Texas grown tomato. Sometimes at Smiths I've seen Colorado grown though.

There is no reason to transport produce from Texas to California unless there is a weird short term bind and even at that point-like you said, go find a distributor to help you out temporarily. That is also miserable climate to be trucking produce through in the summer months (I know the trucks are refrigerated but still...).

My other observation on WinCo's produce is it doesn't seem priced very well. Still they move a lot of produce in Reno. Lots of customers buy it, I see hispanic customers buying in large bagfulls and they have what looks like a temporary but going on 3 years running display at the front of produce with avocado, roma tomato, tomatillo, jalapenos, and rotate in/out limes/cucumbers/garlic that gets steady traffic with folks filling up bags.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by Greggo »

Keep in mind the governor of Texas for more than a week was ordering detailed inspections of any truck from Mexico crossing into the state due to immigration concerns. These were done after trucks had already cleared customs. So two inspections (federal and state) instead of one. (Even tho the Texas state troopers only had the authority to examine safety items on the outside of the trucks, so they didn’t find a single immigrant.) Billions of dollars in food rotted in trucks. WinCo may have temporarily sourced from Texas to avoid having out of stocks while trucks waited — and waited — at the temporary inspection sites.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by pseudo3d »

ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 7:13 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 17th, 2022, 7:08 pm
ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 4:56 pm
I have noticed in San Diego area WinCo produce is now being trucked in from Texas. They must not have any warehouse at all in California/Nevada/Arizona, and they've decided that it is cheaper to bring it from Texas vs. drive from Oregon/Washington. Since this change was made there definitely has been a decline in the quality of WinCo produce; it was not great before but was serviceable. Now I see items like mushrooms that are Texas grown and they are all brown and rotting right out of the cases you watch their employees stocking. I didn't ask about this because it was unnecessary - there are literally Texas Grown stickers on many items which you just don't see at any other California supermarket. Seems bizarre that they wouldn't just hire a local produce company considering how much is grown and distributed in California.
Winco has a produce and meat distribution center in Modesto. I've never been a fan of their produce but usually if it looks okay, it is okay. Just okay. There have been some high points like the Hawaii Pineapples they got for quite a while in the height of the pandemic.

Also much of WinCo's meat comes from a processor in SoCal, at least what they are selling in Reno.

The dry grocery in Reno is supplied out of Idaho.

Much of the vegetables I see at the CA grocers is Product of Mexico anyway. I actually see more Product of USA stickers at Smiths (produce there is distributed from Utah) on vegetables than I do at the CA grocers. Fruits seem to be moreso from CA.

My guess is WinCo is running some logistics from TX to pick up certain produce in CA (probably all stuff from Mexico) and driving some TX stuff out to CA to supplement so the trucks are full in both directions. Seems like there could be other refrigerated product they could truck across a few states that is less perishable than produce.

I wouldn't put a Texas Grown sticker on anything in California.
Thanks for the insight as I really don't know anything about how WinCo distributes other than I saw one of their warehouses near the Woodburn outlet mall in Oregon.

I'm used to seeing half of the produce department in most stores showing Mexico country of origin, and the quality appears to be fine. Certainly better than the Texas produce at these WinCo stores. They definitely need to bring non-perishables here if they're going to continue trucking into CA. This Oceanside, CA store had Texas tomatoes as well - which is a slap in the face to the community which is famous for "Oceanside Pole" tomatoes from a large farm just a couple miles from the store. Ironically I've seen these same "Oceanside Pole" CA Grown tomatoes in Portland and Seattle.

The mushrooms were Monterey brand but had a big "Texas Grown" red ribbon emblem on the sticker. Once again there is a very large mushroom farm about 15 miles east of this store in Escondido, CA that supplies many grocery stores in SoCal, occasionally even Costco and packs for brands like Monterey as well as their own name (might just be Escondido Mushroom Farm).

Everything looked old, wilted, and like it had sat in a truck for days. I don't think they have much under development in San Diego right now and if this is going to be how they run their stores they will not succeed regardless of how cheap they are. San Diego County is one of the few places where you can drive less than 10 minutes from any urban area and be out in farm country, shopping the freshest possible produce that was picked hours ago at beautiful roadside stands. Not to mention shopping the farms themselves such as Carlsbad Strawberry Farm. There are also stores like Frazier Farms which is like a local version of Sprouts, and don't forget that their predecessor Henry's was from San Diego too.

It is like they picked the market which might possibly have access to the freshest, highest quality produce in the US to send their absolute worst product to... Real bonehead operation at WinCo down there.
Very strange indeed. Monterey Mushroom is based out of Watsonville, CA, in the Monterey area, but the Texas facility is in Madisonville, TX, which is about halfway between Dallas and Houston on I-45. They supply most of the mushrooms you can get in Texas supermarkets (as well as some restaurants) and they arrive fine...but mushrooms don't have a great shelf life and getting trucked halfway across the country aren't going to survive well.

Greggo wrote: May 17th, 2022, 9:21 pm Keep in mind the governor of Texas for more than a week was ordering detailed inspections of any truck from Mexico crossing into the state due to immigration concerns. These were done after trucks had already cleared customs. So two inspections (federal and state) instead of one. (Even tho the Texas state troopers only had the authority to examine safety items on the outside of the trucks, so they didn’t find a single immigrant.) Billions of dollars in food rotted in trucks. WinCo may have temporarily sourced from Texas to avoid having out of stocks while trucks waited — and waited — at the temporary inspection sites.
That doesn't really explain things. The produce tie-up was in Texas, not in California, trucks could still enter at NM, AZ, and CA, it makes no sense for Mexican produce to enter in Texas then swing back halfway across the country to California, and the mushrooms were all produced domestically...why the Madisonville mushrooms ended up in San Diego is a complete mystery.
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