Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

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Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by buckguy »

Wegman's has an opening date of July 13th.
https://www.popville.com/2022/05/wegman ... ning-date/

Less than a mile away, Lidl will be opening a store. This is a relatively affluent area for them, but they also are opening another one in Southeast DC in a long delayed complex in an area that's seen as relatively low income, although it's also near quite a few very middle class shoppers.
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by storewanderer »

More bad news for Safeway.

Lidl will be a great addition. And of course so will Wegman's.
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by mjhale »

buckguy wrote: May 23rd, 2022, 9:06 am another one in Southeast DC in a long delayed complex in an area that's seen as relatively low income, although it's also near quite a few very middle class shoppers.
This the Skyland development along Good Hope Road at Naylor Road and Alabama Avenue, correct? The only grocery in the immediate area is the Safeway there on Alabama Avenue. Giant has a large store below the Suitland Parkway on Alabama Avenue. Otherwise one has to go into Maryland for a non-corner store type grocery. Good on Lidl for being willing to open a store here. Gives people options when there aren't many. Maybe Lidl can make urban stores a part of their expansion strategy. The suburban Lidl stores I've been in are average at best with no real compelling reason to return. But if they can run a good store in areas others aren't willing to go they would get some good press while serving people's needs.

Also, the Skyland development is where Walmart had planned to build a store but pulled out during their big store closure in 2016. Walmart ended up paying DC government 1.3 million over their sudden departure from the project.
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by mjhale »

storewanderer wrote: May 23rd, 2022, 10:50 pm More bad news for Safeway.

Lidl will be a great addition. And of course so will Wegman's.
I'm beginning to think that Albertsons should sell the DC area Safeway stores and be done with it. Albertsons seems to have stopped doing anything to make Safeway any better than its very average self before the buyout. Pricing is high to outrageous, fresh departments are so-so especially deli and service meats and promotions are now very dependent on buy multiple, get multiple free for staple items. I don't want to buy four or five units of something to get a decent price. Perhaps attrition from an inability to compete with new competitors like Wegmans and Lidl is what will really get Safeway.
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by buckguy »

mjhale wrote: May 24th, 2022, 4:45 pm
buckguy wrote: May 23rd, 2022, 9:06 am another one in Southeast DC in a long delayed complex in an area that's seen as relatively low income, although it's also near quite a few very middle class shoppers.
This the Skyland development along Good Hope Road at Naylor Road and Alabama Avenue, correct? The only grocery in the immediate area is the Safeway there on Alabama Avenue. Giant has a large store below the Suitland Parkway on Alabama Avenue. Otherwise one has to go into Maryland for a non-corner store type grocery. Good on Lidl for being willing to open a store here. Gives people options when there aren't many. Maybe Lidl can make urban stores a part of their expansion strategy. The suburban Lidl stores I've been in are average at best with no real compelling reason to return. But if they can run a good store in areas others aren't willing to go they would get some good press while serving people's needs.

Also, the Skyland development is where Walmart had planned to build a store but pulled out during their big store closure in 2016. Walmart ended up paying DC government 1.3 million over their sudden departure from the project.
This was going to be a smaller than usual store much like the one they opened in Brightwood (old Walter Reed area) but a bit bigger than that one and they pulled out when they decided to give up on that experiment and also closed a large number of stores. They also were supposed to open one on the far Eastern side of DC on the PG County border. WM claimed that it was related to DC's increase in the minimum wage, but I'm guessing they were backing out of the small stores and urban locations as strategies and the minimum wage thing was mostly a pr stance. They claimed that the other stores they opened underperformed, although they are quite popular and still open . I'm glad DC government got some money out of them, because WM always has its hand out.

The store would have been in a relatively poor neighborhood but in a complex with market rate housing and not far from Hillcrest and Fort Dupont which are fairly well-off neighborhoods. Going to Maryland in that part of DC isn't exactly a huge effort and Hillcrest has easy access to Capitol Hill on public transit. There are other areas of DC that are more isolated from significant retail. The other unbuilt store would have been in one of these areas (Deanwood).
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

storewanderer wrote: May 23rd, 2022, 10:50 pm More bad news for Safeway.

Lidl will be a great addition. And of course so will Wegman's.
Safeway is still a strong #2 in the DC metro, behind Giant.
https://www.axios.com/local/washington- ... ery-stores

I'm going to NY and DC this summer, might check out a Wegmans in either place.
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by mjhale »

buckguy wrote: May 25th, 2022, 4:45 am This was going to be a smaller than usual store much like the one they opened in Brightwood (old Walter Reed area) but a bit bigger than that one and they pulled out when they decided to give up on that experiment and also closed a large number of stores. They also were supposed to open one on the far Eastern side of DC on the PG County border. WM claimed that it was related to DC's increase in the minimum wage, but I'm guessing they were backing out of the small stores and urban locations as strategies and the minimum wage thing was mostly a pr stance. They claimed that the other stores they opened underperformed, although they are quite popular and still open . I'm glad DC government got some money out of them, because WM always has its hand out.

The store would have been in a relatively poor neighborhood but in a complex with market rate housing and not far from Hillcrest and Fort Dupont which are fairly well-off neighborhoods. Going to Maryland in that part of DC isn't exactly a huge effort and Hillcrest has easy access to Capitol Hill on public transit. There are other areas of DC that are more isolated from significant retail. The other unbuilt store would have been in one of these areas (Deanwood).
I think the store Walmart proposed at Capital Gateway on East Capital Street just inside the DC border could have been a good location for them if it had full grocery. The other DC stores have full grocery so I assume this would have too. Walmart was denied expanding the Capital Plaza store to a Supercenter, denied a store along MD 450 outside Bowie and the existing Bowie store has been off and on for relocation for five or six years. The Capital Gateway store would have been in a densely populated area along a major route. It probably would have brought in people from east of the river in the general area of the store plus people from PG County who are nearby or are willing to drive to shop at Walmart.

There is some irony in Walmart not building these DC stores now with wages what they are. It has been recent market forces as opposed to government intervention that has driven up wages as stores are desperate for workers. I wonder how Walmart feels now having to pay higher wages throughout the company that they were trying to avoid with just three stores by not building the remaining proposed DC stores. Also, if I'm Walmart I would have built the Skyland store first as it was the one that got them the ability to build elsewhere in DC. At least that way you satisfy the politicians. Instead Walmart built three other stores first, ignoring the neediest part of town where they could have scored some political bonus points. Even if Skyland was a failure and Walmart had to run it at a loss, at least they would have avoided the situation they are in now where they will never be welcome again to build in DC. Another arrogant move by Walmart thinking their way is the only way. Walmart is going to have to be more flexible in its approach. They have essentially saturated suburbia that wants them and rural America. Based on their latest quarterly report online sales aren't going so well. Even so I suspect someone down at the Bentonville HQ still thinks their approach is the only right way.
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by storewanderer »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: May 28th, 2022, 12:28 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 23rd, 2022, 10:50 pm More bad news for Safeway.

Lidl will be a great addition. And of course so will Wegman's.
Safeway is still a strong #2 in the DC metro, behind Giant.
https://www.axios.com/local/washington- ... ery-stores

I'm going to NY and DC this summer, might check out a Wegmans in either place.
13.6% is not strong market share at all. Even if it is second place that is very low share. Safeway had close to 30% share in that market back in the 90's (and I think Giant had around 40% share). Once share falls below 10%, that is the type of share you start to see market exits happen at. Dominick's and Genuardi's had higher market share percentages when they were shut down as divisions in their markets. I am surprised Costco has 10.8% share and is in third place.

Put in relative terms- if those DC Safeways went away that means 14 of 100 customers would be displaced to another grocer. There are so many other players that nobody would really even notice or care if they went away.

Also all of the lower share players like Wegman's, Harris Teeter, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, keep expanding. Weis looks iffy to me but 3% share must only be a few stores, let's say Safeway somehow bought those Weis, would another 3% even matter? Safeway would just close another few stores up and give up the share anyway not long after based on how things are going.

Also you have not seen how Safeway Eastern Division Stores are run. I am not sure which division, East Div or Denver Div, runs worse stores with lower standards for perimeter departments and service levels. These divisions are not run at the level of a CA Safeway, they are not even run at the level of a bad Vons, they are worse. Maybe you could say they are at the level of how a bad Albertsons was under Supervalu- dingy, depressing, highest prices in the market, unappealing perimeters, and lousy service. And the competitors know it and are going after them. Watch for Publix to show up and have 5-8% share within a few years of entry. Watch where most of that share comes from... it won't be coming from Wal Mart, Costco, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, or Wegmans...
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Re: Wegman's & Lidl Coming to DC

Post by buckguy »

storewanderer wrote: May 28th, 2022, 10:54 pm
retailfanmitchell019 wrote: May 28th, 2022, 12:28 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 23rd, 2022, 10:50 pm More bad news for Safeway.

Lidl will be a great addition. And of course so will Wegman's.
Safeway is still a strong #2 in the DC metro, behind Giant.
https://www.axios.com/local/washington- ... ery-stores

I'm going to NY and DC this summer, might check out a Wegmans in either place.
13.6% is not strong market share at all. Even if it is second place that is very low share. Safeway had close to 30% share in that market back in the 90's (and I think Giant had around 40% share). Once share falls below 10%, that is the type of share you start to see market exits happen at. Dominick's and Genuardi's had higher market share percentages when they were shut down as divisions in their markets. I am surprised Costco has 10.8% share and is in third place.

Put in relative terms- if those DC Safeways went away that means 14 of 100 customers would be displaced to another grocer. There are so many other players that nobody would really even notice or care if they went away.

Also all of the lower share players like Wegman's, Harris Teeter, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, keep expanding. Weis looks iffy to me but 3% share must only be a few stores, let's say Safeway somehow bought those Weis, would another 3% even matter? Safeway would just close another few stores up and give up the share anyway not long after based on how things are going.

Also you have not seen how Safeway Eastern Division Stores are run. I am not sure which division, East Div or Denver Div, runs worse stores with lower standards for perimeter departments and service levels. These divisions are not run at the level of a CA Safeway, they are not even run at the level of a bad Vons, they are worse. Maybe you could say they are at the level of how a bad Albertsons was under Supervalu- dingy, depressing, highest prices in the market, unappealing perimeters, and lousy service. And the competitors know it and are going after them. Watch for Publix to show up and have 5-8% share within a few years of entry. Watch where most of that share comes from... it won't be coming from Wal Mart, Costco, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, or Wegmans...

I wonder how they drew the arc to decide how big the DC market would be. It probably had to go quite far for Weis to register at all, for Costco and Walmart (which has maybe 1 store in Montgomery County and few in the immediate DC area counties) to be that large, and for Trader Joe's and Whole Foods to have such small shares.

There is a 2020 survey from someone else that does name the area used (and includes Baltimore, Winchester, Hagerstown & Fredericksburg) that comes up with similar Giant and Safeway numbers but somewhat different numbers for everyone else: https://www.thepacker.com/markets/know- ... tail-scene. The latter study does talk comparatively and suggests that both Giant and Safeway have been doing a little better in terms of market share than in 2016 and 2018.

The one past article I could find on the 90s in the Washington Post reported that Giant had 45% of the market in 1998 and Safeway about a quarter, but I would guess that included a smaller radius than the studies above because neither chain dominated in Baltimore and outlying areas in the way that they did in DC during the 90s, although it might suggest that they lost customers at about the similar rates after 1998, which is ironic given that Giant has made a much greater investment in the area than Safeway. Giant has done higher store volumes and had larger stores than Safeway since at least the 1960s when a Congressional panel looked at concentrations of super market chain shares in different places and they became the dominant chain, in terms of market share, somewhere in the 70s after a series of price wars that ultimately led to smaller chains leaving the area.

Putting all this in context, Safeway isn't doing great but they are not doing as badly as one data point would suggest.
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