Target 2022

Predicting the demise of Sears & Kmart since 2017!
BatteryMill
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Re: Target 2022

Post by BatteryMill »

pseudo3d wrote: June 7th, 2022, 7:01 pm The problem with the small stores is that they're already in Target markets, and the markets that Target went into...some back in the 1980s and 1990s, were already medium-sized markets with an existing retail base--a few Wal-Mart and/or Kmart stores, a competitive grocery store ecosystem, and likely a small mall. I don't think that trying to add even more grocery to the small stores is a winning strategy, either. The 20k square feet stores are probably just going to end up being white elephants unless a local supermarket wants to take a chance on them.

Really, though, they need to scrap the entire PFresh program, restore SuperTarget, and reconfigure their merchandise mix to something closer to what it used to be.
What advantages do you see with the SuperTarget format? I've seen those nicely populated, but I'm not sure if the inventory count or having a deli or bakery would sound 'worth it' to Target.
storewanderer
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Re: Target 2022

Post by storewanderer »

BatteryMill wrote: July 1st, 2022, 11:55 am

What advantages do you see with the SuperTarget format? I've seen those nicely populated, but I'm not sure if the inventory count or having a deli or bakery would sound 'worth it' to Target.
The advantages to Super Target are that it drives visits to the stores more often. This results in increased general merchandise sales. It also makes it easier for the customers to get everything they need in one place.

This is why Target developed the P-Fresh concept in the first place. They did not want to spend the money and invest the labor in Super Target, so they went with a watered down format and expected their customers to eat it up. Outside certain large metro areas this P-Fresh is P-Flop and a laughable joke with embarrassing execution and does nothing to drive visit frequency to Target.

P-Fresh never could have done high sales volume in the first place on full grocery (perishables). They simply were not set up for it. The stores did not have the proper refrigeration capacity, etc. to accommodate a high volume of grocery sales. The set up of the stores is not efficient to do a high volume of grocery sales (such as having milk that is stocked from the front of the cooler since there is no walk in, shelves with so few facings they go empty after a few customers buy one of the same item, etc.).

The Super Targets, were built with the layout and equipment to be high volume grocery operations...
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Re: Target 2022

Post by BatteryMill »

storewanderer wrote: July 1st, 2022, 12:04 pm
BatteryMill wrote: July 1st, 2022, 11:55 am

What advantages do you see with the SuperTarget format? I've seen those nicely populated, but I'm not sure if the inventory count or having a deli or bakery would sound 'worth it' to Target.
The advantages to Super Target are that it drives visits to the stores more often. This results in increased general merchandise sales. It also makes it easier for the customers to get everything they need in one place.

This is why Target developed the P-Fresh concept in the first place. They did not want to spend the money and invest the labor in Super Target, so they went with a watered down format and expected their customers to eat it up. Outside certain large metro areas this P-Fresh is P-Flop and a laughable joke with embarrassing execution and does nothing to drive visit frequency to Target.

P-Fresh never could have done high sales volume in the first place on full grocery (perishables). They simply were not set up for it. The stores did not have the proper refrigeration capacity, etc. to accommodate a high volume of grocery sales. The set up of the stores is not efficient to do a high volume of grocery sales (such as having milk that is stocked from the front of the cooler since there is no walk in, shelves with so few facings they go empty after a few customers buy one of the same item, etc.).

The Super Targets, were built with the layout and equipment to be high volume grocery operations...
What is obvious is that SuperTargets have immediate entrances to grocery versus most PFresh locations. It is an interesting compromise however seeing as how it entices guests to go through more of the store, and they seem somewhat wavering on adding more entrances to the store. I know this as in the late 2000s Target began cutting out one of the two entrances at several Greatlands. Said concept has not been expanded at all to remaining non-PFreshes in the Cornell years despite major remodeling efforts either.
I do also know that Target's fanciest iterations of their P17 remodels have been common at SuperTargets, so the dual-entrance and expanded grocery format, as well as a commitment to prepared foods as they did early on would work.
storewanderer
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Re: Target 2022

Post by storewanderer »

BatteryMill wrote: July 1st, 2022, 12:14 pm

What is obvious is that SuperTargets have immediate entrances to grocery versus most PFresh locations. It is an interesting compromise however seeing as how it entices guests to go through more of the store, and they seem somewhat wavering on adding more entrances to the store. I know this as in the late 2000s Target began cutting out one of the two entrances at several Greatlands. Said concept has not been expanded at all to remaining non-PFreshes in the Cornell years despite major remodeling efforts either.
I do also know that Target's fanciest iterations of their P17 remodels have been common at SuperTargets, so the dual-entrance and expanded grocery format, as well as a commitment to prepared foods as they did early on would work.
The Reno unit just remodeled (more of a repaint inside, start playing odd disjointed selections of music, and then re-do the cosmetics department and that is really it, but it took them almost a year, I guess they were doing stuff to the back room for fulfillment) was built as a Greatland and still has two entrances. They did also remove the entry doors that opened forward in/out and replaced them with sliding doors. Supposedly there were complaints the old doors were too noisy (???) so the sliding doors are quiet and make for a more pleasant experience. What a waste of money.
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Re: Target 2022

Post by pseudo3d »

BatteryMill wrote: July 1st, 2022, 11:55 am
pseudo3d wrote: June 7th, 2022, 7:01 pm The problem with the small stores is that they're already in Target markets, and the markets that Target went into...some back in the 1980s and 1990s, were already medium-sized markets with an existing retail base--a few Wal-Mart and/or Kmart stores, a competitive grocery store ecosystem, and likely a small mall. I don't think that trying to add even more grocery to the small stores is a winning strategy, either. The 20k square feet stores are probably just going to end up being white elephants unless a local supermarket wants to take a chance on them.

Really, though, they need to scrap the entire PFresh program, restore SuperTarget, and reconfigure their merchandise mix to something closer to what it used to be.
What advantages do you see with the SuperTarget format? I've seen those nicely populated, but I'm not sure if the inventory count or having a deli or bakery would sound 'worth it' to Target.
Back prior to P-Fresh, so roughly before 2010, SuperTarget stores were fairly uncommon. There is more than enough room for a high-quality discount store/supermarket combination in the market. Most of the existing Target stores need to remove the large food sections in favor of higher-margin dry goods.
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Re: Target 2022

Post by storewanderer »

Target posted a not so great earnings report. I am not surprised about this. We will see what happens next.
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Re: Target 2022

Post by Romr123 »

[/quote]

Back prior to P-Fresh, so roughly before 2010, SuperTarget stores were fairly uncommon. There is more than enough room for a high-quality discount store/supermarket combination in the market. Most of the existing Target stores need to remove the large food sections in favor of higher-margin dry goods.
[/quote]
Unfortunately that kills off the volume for the house brand grocery lines (Good and Gather)...I do wonder if there might be a niche where Target outsources food/wine/perishables to Trader Joes.
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Re: Target 2022

Post by reymann »

Maybe not Trader Joes but, maybe supervalu's essential everyday would be a better option than good & gather. I've never been crazy about good & gather's products. Might we see some of the unremodeled stores be on the chopping block soon?
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Re: Target 2022

Post by storewanderer »

Good & Gather is a lousy label. I have not found the items to be particularly good quality, a particularly good price, or have a mix that seems interesting. The old Target label Archer Farms actually had some interesting products, it felt like a quasi-premium label and I tried some items I liked in that line, mainly snack foods. The price was high though. The old Market Pantry label was very generic and I think it presented itself appropriately as what it was- a low quality cheap product label, and the price usually was cheap. Good & Gather seemed like it tried to make the label look premium, but kept the Market Pantry level quality, and increased the price.

Target's grocery program continues to not go very far. Target does not invest enough labor in grocery to make it work. They just can't understand what it takes. They have difficulty on mix, difficulty on replenishment, difficulty keeping the shelves full, questionable buying (still getting a lot of perishables from C&S), poor store layouts, poor stores trying to run heavy volumes of dairy/frozen but the stores have no walk in for dairy/frozen, long distances between back room storage areas and the food departments. They are completely incompetent and inept when it comes to trying to run a produce department or a meat (even prepack) in the P-Fresh. They seem to be able to keep up with dairy (yogurt/cheese/eggs/milk) which I find interesting as dairy in my opinion is more difficult than a low volume meat/produce operation like Target P-Fresh is.

The concept of Target outsourcing grocery to Trader Joe's-not a chance. Trader Joe's is a high labor old school with almost no technology concept. They are still handwriting orders. It is polar opposite of Target who tries to make everything a robotic, trackable process and is constantly watching all kinds of metrics on pick efficiency, etc.

What Target needs to do is take the plunge into doing full grocery in all locations. They need to get serious, spend the money to make the necessary department additions and layout changes, and invest the labor to run it properly once they do the construction work.

But Target won't do that because they have other focus areas and it is much easier to make money on higher margin general merchandise in their opinion. 20 years ago I think Target was on the right track. But today, given the growth of Wal Mart over the past 20 years, and how much grocery Wal Mart is moving, and continues to maintain/slightly grow its share in that category even while not opening any new stores and not being nearly as sharp on pricing as they once were, Target's decision to always take a half hearted attempt at grocery is really hurting them. The last recession was not kind to Target. Combined with the Canada fiasco it looked like the company was at risk of going under back then.

Target recovered well over the past 7-8 years and got a huge windfall during COVID when they stayed open as malls closed and I think the company got too proud of itself. Elsewhere I referred to Target as a bloated pig during the COVID period of 2020. The stores became messy, operations started to decline (awful displays, messy stores, terrible price accuracy), prices started increasing substantially, promotions seemed to be fewer and fewer. Target has a serious quality to price ratio problem at this point in time in many non food categories especially home and clothing. During the first six months of 2022, Target Stores were filled with hundreds/thousands of out of stocks on items customers wanted to buy while being overstocked on items customers did not want to buy and were not buying. It is like Target forgot other retailers reopened and expected customers would "buy literally anything, at any price" for Target, during the initial months of 2022.

And now this is where we are: an overstocked Target. Profits are down significantly BUT the company is still profitable. The company is continuing to spend money on new stores and remodels. The company has a generally favorable reputation among customers. The question is if Target is meeting customer's needs well enough to continue to be successful, or if customers will find other places that will better meet their needs.

Target's online ordering system which is a darling of retail analysts, I find to be quite poor. Orders are shipped from stores, an item or two in a single box, often poorly packaged. I have had more "unavailable" cancellations and damaged items from Target than any other retailer I've ordered from online (Walgreens is a close second, they ship directly from a warehouse). Target's "Drive Up" Service continues to have weird ideas like accepting cash and delivering Starbucks out to customer vehicles which are not exactly safe and not in any way efficient or practical. Target employees are having more and more trouble meeting goals and their handhelds show them how behind they are as they are working all day and it is creating a lot of stress among the store employees to keep up with this nightmare program with the company's current staffing levels.

Wal Mart has so much more revenue and market share they seem to be better able to navigate through messy situations. The upcoming months will be a test for Target. We will see how they do. I think they may get through.



Ultimately Target should probably have been the retailer that was merged with Amazon. Not Whole Foods.
storewanderer
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Re: Target 2022

Post by storewanderer »

Went into the Reno Target tonight. Total disaster. The store was poorly stocked throughout most consumables areas (must have been wiped out by Burning Man, but Burning Man started over the weekend; the local Wal Marts have largely recovered already and WinCo doesn't even look like anything happened).

Then I got over into other odd random areas like drapes, picture frames, entire aisles were nearly empty. No way this stuff got bought up by the Burning Man attendees.

Front end was interesting; it wasn't even 8 PM yet. Only option was self checkout; no regular cashiers open. I saw many employees just standing around talking. I didn't see anyone picking orders and saw one employee attempting to straighten clothing (another absolute disaster area, looked worse than a thrift store). First time I have seen mandatory self checkout at a Target.

Target is circling the drain faster than imaginable.
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